The story begins: a thread for rising seniors

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
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<p>em - When we visited Emerson we found that they were not that selective academically and their curriculum was kind of thin outside of the major departments e.g. one of the science classes is “The Science of Natural Disasters,” which was clearly oriented to the Journalism majors. :-p. That being said, if the availability of merit scholarship $ is important to you, you may have to weigh the tradeoff between the selectivity of a school and the extent to which you are an academic standout at a given institution. (Hope that makes sense.)</p>

<p>Best,
OTM</p>

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<p>em - When we visited Emerson we found that they were not that selective academically and their curriculum was kind of thin outside of the major departments e.g. one of the science classes is “The Science of Natural Disasters,” which was clearly oriented to the Journalism majors. :-p. That being said, if the availability of merit scholarship $ is important to you, you may have to weigh the tradeoff between the selectivity of a school and the extent to which you are an academic standout at a given institution. (Hope that makes sense.)</p>

<p>Best,
OTM</p>

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<p>I respect all of the thought and care that every one of these kids puts into making their decisions.</p>

<p>I don’t want to start a debate, and I know I can’t help sounding a lot like a mommy here, but I do want to say something in response to the discussion coming from emkolb’s posts. </p>

<p>I am impressed with all of the talking and reading you are doing in your search for a school. I wish you all the best. But I would like to ask you to adjust how you are thinking, or at least how you are expressing yourself. Please see more of what you are doing as a personal choice, not as some kind of definable right or wrong choice. If I am making a mistake in considering you to be too dogmatic, then I apologize. But I’m sensing others are having the same reaction, based on the comments you are receiving. I think many of us will feel better if you express your opinions more subjectively, rather than as if you have been told the “right” thing to do, and it will be easier to have a conversation here, with people sharing their various thoughts and perspectives, instead of your feeling like you’re having to defend yourself and the “rightness” of your choices.</p>

<p>I am no theater expert, nor an expert in much of anything at all. I am a social worker, and I have also had a long career in the arts. I couldn’t tell you if a BA or a BFA will do any more or less for anyone. But I do feel deeply that you are entitled to pursue what feels right for you, just as everyone else should pursue what feels right for them. Maybe how anyone finds out what feels right is by doing exactly what you are doing - asking, reading, thinking, comparing. But different people will come up with different answers, and the world has room for all kinds of options.</p>

<p>CC is full of people who are scared to death that they are doing the “wrong” thing, that they won’t be “successful,” and it makes me sad every time I see it. I have been up, down and all around, and I do feel with all of my heart that someone can and should follow the path that makes sense and calls to them personally. To see this choice as trying to find an intrinsically “right” answer is not only unfair to oneself, but unfair to the people who prefer a different answer.</p>

<p>Everyone is entitled to feel a school or a program or a location is not right for them. But let’s not suggest that schools or degrees that aren’t our own preference are inherently inferior. As I said, I’m not accusing anyone of feeling this way, but some of emkolb’s posts are expressing that, whether it is your intention or not.</p>

<p>I say this particularly on this thread, because it is for everyone who is coming up as a senior, and we will have (I hope) all kinds of kids with all kinds of tastes, plans, dreams, experiences, and there’s so much we can learn from each other, and so many ways we can support each other. If we succeed in being welcoming and open-minded, that will be a huge accomplishment.</p>

<p>The parents here have been truly wonderful, helpful, sharing and supportive. I am grateful to this forum already.</p>

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<p>My apologies if my posts came off in that way. It was certainly not my intention. I should reiterate that in all of my posts I’m completely and totally speaking for, and in regards to, myself. Perhaps that is the problem. If I came off as dogmatic, or even aggressive, it was because I began to see people answering questions or giving advice in relation to things I hadn’t asked, and it was my attempt to focus the advice or answers to the questions I was asking. Not to mention it’s coming from all sides. Everyone, particularly outside of this board, has an opinion about what is best for me (any student) and it’s difficult not to react to that. I definitely do not want to take any of that frustration out on anyone here. </p>

<p>Because I’m looking at schools that offer both degrees, I certainly do not consider a BFA inferior to a BA, or vice versa. They are different, and even at different schools they are different. I think we can all agree on that. If any of my posts seemed to express that it was because I was speaking from my own point of view, and the majority of the information I have comes from my teachers (of the 4 teachers I’m working with right now, two pursued BFAs and two have BAs and later went on to pursue MFAs). That being said, I think there are general positives and negatives to both which everyone looking at a career in theatre should consider. While there is no “right” way to pursue education in this field, anyone in my position needs to consider those general positives and negatives. </p>

<p>Again, many thanks to all on this board, particularly those who have responded personally to my posts. I definitely don’t to ruffle any feathers and will try to be a bit more diplomatic in how I express myself in the future :)</p>

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<p>Thank you for a lovely post. I know you are just trying to figure things out for yourself. Only you know what will feel right. Please feel free to be honest - we all want to be able to use this forum as a place to share our ideas, fears, and triumphs. I wouldn’t want avoiding feather-ruffling to stifle honest expressions and connections.</p>

<p>We’ve spent a lot of time trying to understand how the positives and negatives work for my D. There is also a financial aspect to her decision, as with practically everyone. One thing that happens when she visits schools is that she gets a combination of rationally based opinions, and also subjectively based gut feelings, and both are worth respecting. It’s nice when you know at least a basic set of criteria that feel right for you (and in my opinion aren’t coming from “what everyone says” is the “only” thing to do - and I’m referring to an attitude that creeps up a lot on CC, and everywhere, not pointing fingers at anyone here). Really since there are no guarantees in this field, it’s practically all subjective, when you get down to it.</p>

<p>My D loves cities, too. Fortunately several of her public options out here have city locations in surprisingly great theater towns. She also has a warm feeling for a school that is nowhere near a city, but just gave her a great feeling when she was there - she can’t explain why. It’s also a BA program (well-respected among LAC theater degrees, from what we glean from comments here), even though generally she does prefer BFAs. Everyone has a mix of feelings, and in this particular major it’s practically useless to have a first choice or singled-out ED school as is common for regular applications. If you’re lucky one or more schools you want can give you a somewhat earlier answer, but that seems rare, and an awful lot of people still go on to finish the round of auditioning and applying all the way through March. So we’re ready for that.</p>

<p>I don’t know how strongly she’ll feel about her personal criteria once the admissions choices come around … hopefully she’ll have at least one admission among her favorite BFAs, and we know she’ll have at least a couple of safeties to consider, which will bring to the front issues of location, cost and the BA-BFA question. We’ll try to be ready for that choice as best we can, without overthinking so she’s completely stumped, or being so tight in her expectations that she has no option she’s happy with. </p>

<p>I’m urging her to explore her own mind, talk to people (as all of these people are), tuck the ideas away and digest them, but keep her gut alive. Yes, one could paint a “worst case scenario” picture here, but since we’re not talking life or death or a pathway to jail here, I think pretty much anything is a good choice, or a fixable choice, or at least a step along the path of learning. How she’ll support herself someday worries her, of course, but she’s not alone in that, including outside the theater world.</p>

<p>I don’t obsess lately about which school? which degree? what’s right? any more. Six months ago I’ll admit I was more like that. She’s seen enough now that she’s in good shape about what matters to her, and has a good grounding in the general college choice process. From now on, it’s a question of doing her best on the applications and auditions, and revisiting her gut when it’s time to take the plunge with the one and only school she can start in the fall of '11. She’s also seen enough friends and family regroup, transfer, etc. that she knows that’s just part of the story for anyone.</p>

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<p>I have come back to CC for help with a second son who is a rising senior. My first son, still a singer who acts is a 2010 graduate of OCU BMMT program. The younger one is an actor who sings, and we’re starting over looking at mainly bfa acting programs, maybe a couple of programs where he auditions for both acting and mt programs and if accepted, gets placed where they think he should be. He also is considering a couple of BA. We are in AZ, so he will audition at U of A, even though getting in is often easier than staying in with their cutting. Otherwise, his dream school at this point is UMinn. Funds are in no way unlimited, worse than they were for the older one, and he can’t take on a lot of debt, like NYU debt. He may audition there and see what happens. Some other places in the running are UW Stevens Point(in my hometown), UCIrvine, SUNY Purchase, maybe OCU. This summer he is doing the UofA/AZ Theatre Company Summer program. I’m glad to post again; I had to get a new login and password, and hoping to get ideas from all of you like I did last time.</p>

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<p>Welcome! I can’t help hoping your son goes to Stevens Point … just a little plug for Wisconsin. I think my D will be encouraged by several of her theater gurus to put in an application there. It’s extremely well-regarded, and getting more national attention all the time, as I’m sure you know.</p>

<p>Would your son consider the BA in theater at Minn, if he doesn’t get into Guthrie? We have a good friend who will finish her BA in theater there this year and has had a tremendous experience. My D may or may not try for Guthrie, but she’s very willing to keep the BA there in reserve. But she hasn’t visited yet, so nothing’s sealed (as much as I wish it were).</p>

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<p>He would definitely consider the BA at Minn. Today we spent time looking at monologues online and have to decide which plays to order or try to find at the used bookstore. We need to do some visiting; I am hoping to make it north in the fall. So much to do and so much time on the computer, but I’m getting back into the swing of this project. I also wanted to say that he has good grades, all A’s his junior year, but built up to that. He takes the ACT next Sat., and we’ll see how that turns out. So I think what we need to look at are not highly competitive schools academically. He likes the idea of LACs but they are almost nonexistent in this state, and he would have to get some financial help. Any other ideas of schools to look at for him? I know I should read all the threads, but I don’t know if I can go back that far. I remember the first time I signed on to this site - there were about five posts on the MT site and this thread didn’t exist.</p>

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<p>You probably know this, but check out the Unified Auditions website. Also I believe page 8 of the archived thread at the top of the forum lists a lot of the theater schools people gravitate toward.</p>

<p>I find BA schools are the hardest to find. How do you know they have a great program, except by hearsay? Their websites all say the same thing. But then I hear of this-or-that school having some incredible facility, or faculty, or partnership with professional theater, or whatever. I guess it’s just a question of looking around. Also, a lot of people say here that a good LAC will have a good theater BA as much as it has any other BA, just a general point of quality. But then it takes visiting and asking around to see if it meets your own personal needs. Daunting!</p>

<p>Give us a few more details about what he likes/doesn’t like about programs and locations, and you’ll get a lot of suggestions here.</p>

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<p>I am a rising senior planning to make the risky move of auditioning for only a few select BFAs next winter. I am a year younger than most seniors and I would be okay with going to community college for a semester while continuing to perform locally and try again the next winter when I would also be old enough to try for British schools. I think those would be better for me anyway if I could get accepted.</p>

<p>I feel that acting training is kinesthetic. I get better by doing. Not by listening to people talk about it and I only want to go to one of the schools where you spend at least 24 hours a week in performance classes. I would feel like I was spinning my wheels if I went somewhere I did not put up a scene or a monologue for critique at least once a week and was not constantly performing by the third year. That eliminates most BFAs. </p>

<p>My definites as of now are:</p>

<p>Suny Purchase
BU
Uminn Guthrie</p>

<p>On the bubble:</p>

<p>Juilliard. It is starting to seem like a waste of a half day in Chicago to try for them since they have almost completely stopped accepting people from high school. I have also heard that they won’t let you do any supplemental training in film acting during the summers. I will probably end up trying if I don’t start liking some of the other following schools better.</p>

<p>Rutgers. I think Meisner technique has its strengths but also a lot of weaknesses. Isn’t that is all they do? Another red flag is that I have seen some rumblings about some of their faculty being verbally abusive and lying about cuts. </p>

<p>NYU. They only spend 17-18 hours a week in class and I don’t think that is enough. I would only be interested in the Adler Studio anyway. Another problem is I have heard that they don’t accept credit for community college classes. I will have a lot of those but only three APs. My grandparents, however, will be paying for my college and they are alumni of the business school who think all of NYU is the bee’s knees. I might have to audition but I might also make it a point to say all the wrong things in the interview. haha</p>

<p>Eliminated:</p>

<p>UNCSA. This seems like an almost perfect school for me except that I would have to live in the high school dorms freshman year if they accepted me. I won’t turn 18 until the summer after freshman year. </p>

<p>DePaul. I think their cuts are ridiculous.</p>

<p>Cal Arts. Everyone talks like they are a conservatory but they only spend 14-15 hours a week in class!</p>

<p>USC. Like NYU, they only spend 17-18 hours a week in class and it does not look like they have the same faculty teaching the BFAs every year. That seems like too much pot luck to me. </p>

<p>All schools that have a musical theater major. I don’t like feeling like a second class citizen and that has always been how I have felt when I went to camps where they did lots of musicals. A good point was also made on the 12 part thread when someone pointed out that those schools have over half their production budgets tied up in musicals. That puts you out of the picture for over half of what is done if you aren’t a great singer. </p>

<p>Correct me if I’m wrong about any of that. </p>

<p>I have read most of what is on this group and want to thank everyone for all the years of wisdom and experience that have been shared. If anyone has not read the 12 part thread, you should. Some of those posts by Thesbo and Doctorjohn helped me figure out how to go about researching what I want although my research is still a work in progress. I didn’t know you could find class schedules on the schools’ websites and put together a sample schedule based on that if the school doesn’t show one. You can also find a lot of enlightening things in the academic bulletins and catalogues.</p>

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<p>I think it would be a mistake to write off a school simply because it has a MT major. There are many schools out there which have both but acting is at the core of the MT program or is given equal weight as the MT program. You just need to take the time to find the schools where acting and MT co-exist as equals and, in some cases, are interconnected in the structure of the theater department. There are very good acting programs at schools that you would be knocking out of contention and one of them could be a great match for you.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>You COULD do this, not that I’m recommending it…but what if you are accepted anyway?!! Oh, the horror!!! :)</p>

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<p>haha … AND it is the only school that accepts me … with a scholarship … AND I get put in the New Studio with the mt kids!!! (In faux Marlon Brando whisper) The horror. jk </p>

<p>I think CMU is the only school that has all the class hours I want and also has a mt major. I might put them on the bubble for more look see. I think I saw someone on here say that they discourage film acting. Is this true? I saw on their showcase page that most of their acting graduates show little or no film experience on their resumes. It looks like they get enough theater performance experience despite having the mt major.</p>

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<p>Hi tenyearplan,</p>

<p>Wow, you DEFINITELY know what you want! That’s amazing. I love how specific you’ve been with your research.</p>

<p>That said, I think it would be mistake for you to discount schools like UNCSA and CMU for the reasons you’ve described. I’ve never spoken to a CMU acting major who felt their training suffered by coexisting with the MT major. It is, after all, the oldest institutionalized classically-based actor training program in the country. The two tracks, as I’m sure you’ve read, often interact & share the same curriculum, with many diverse performance opportunities. Regarding TV and film, I’m not sure about its place in the curriculum, but I know a number of graduates who work in both mediums regularly without issue.</p>

<p>As for UNCSA, I understand your feeling dubious about the living situation. Perhaps that’s just a non-negotiable for you, but the training at the school is so excellent (and you say it seems like the perfect fit!) that it seems a shame to write it off just because of the dorms. There’s not many places in this country that offer the training UNCSA does at the undergraduate level. Honestly, you wouldn’t be spending an overwhelming amount of time in your room, anyway, from what I understand.</p>

<p>And has Juilliard really almost completely stopped accepting folks straight from high school? I’m not completely sure about all the changes since Jim Houghton became head of the drama division, but I doubt they’ve put a moratorium on that, though I’m sure the ratio changes from year to year. It’s not as if getting in to Juilliard wouldn’t be a long shot as it is, so why not try for it?</p>

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<p>According to what we were told when we visited CMU, they spend a good chunk of Senior year on Acting for the Camera.</p>

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<p>Have you looked at Adelphi, as a less competitive auditioned school? They described, and we found, their program to be very similar to BU, and could be something of a backup.</p>

<p>Good luck to you, and thanks for sharing your experience. It is very helpful to us, and I hope helpful to you, too.</p>

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<p>I haven’t heard of Adelphi before. I will take a look but I would as soon my backup be to stay home and go to community college the way I feel about it now. I will have a four year backup the second time around if I don’t get accepted anywhere then. It will probably be a local four year school where I will study economics if it comes to that. </p>

<p>Now it is a matter of deciding on six schools because I think that will be all I will have time for in three days at the Chicago Unifieds. Don’t you have to block off a half day for Juilliard, NYU, CMU, UNCSA and BU? It seems like I remember Suny and Guthrie being shorter. </p>

<p>I don’t think Juilliard has a policy to only admit older students but I have heard that their classes are getting older and older and the rare kids that do get accepted out of high school come from Interlochen and places like that. Does anyone know different? I go to a regular high school with a crappy theater program. I have some small time professional experience and a great coach with a MFA who works with me on a lot of things, but nothing like that. Combined with NYU where I feel obligated to audition but don’t want to go, that would be a whole day leaving only four schools I might have a semi realistic chance and desire for.</p>

<p>Another thing that worries me about UNCSA is that I wonder if they might also be a waste of time this year. I have seen several times on this group where kids were invited to audition again the following year. It would almost make sense for them to do that with me even if I had a great audition because of my age and the dorm situation. Is this something I could even ask about and get a straight answer?</p>

<p>I know. I know. I worry too much!</p>

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<p>Granted its been a while since I did them (2004), but as I remember you should have time to do more than six. I did six, myself, auditioning for most of the schools you mention (minus NYU and BU) and would have had plenty of time for more had I elected to do them. </p>

<p>Juilliard accepts the students they feel have the most potential for success in their program, and the classes are made up of students from diverse backgrounds. This is a fact. I know alumns from across that spectrum–one guy who was homeschooled and went at 16. It has to do with how they perceive talent, maturity, uniqueness, and trainability rather than a credential on a resume. Same for UNCSA (which has a much higher percentage of younger, straight-from-high school students). Don’t cut yourself off from opportunities because of hearsay or ideas you might have about a program.</p>

<p>You might think of it this way: as an actor, if you didn’t audition for things you didn’t think you had a chance for, you would never, ever audition for anything at the professional level. An audition is hardly ever a waste of time, unless it’s truly something you’re not interested in doing. Sure, you might not get in, but I really don’t think you’d be sacrificing your opportunities to audition for other schools, and if you’re interested in it, why not? You might learn something valuable. I’m still learning from my college audition experience, successful ones and not (actually, the unsuccessful ones taught me more).</p>

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<p>Tenyear - can I go out on a limb here?</p>

<p>You described your thoughtful plan initially as wanting a particular kind of acting program, with a particular curriculum to suit your personal needs. That made a lot of sense.</p>

<p>It’s hard not to see, though, that you seem to have decided that you only want to go to “tippy-top” selective schools - I’m inclined to say “big names.” You’re saying now that if you don’t get into one, you probably will go to community college, change your educational plan completely, and give up the theater degree altogether.</p>

<p>I’m not questioning your dedication to acting. I’m just wondering if somehow you have been influenced that if you don’t go to a “big name” school, it’s not worth it. I’m wondering more when you say you feel “obligated” to audition for NYU, even though you don’t want to go there. You’re giving a message here, whether you mean to or not.</p>

<p>Please know I care about you, and your posts have been humble and honest. You can decide whatever you want, and I’m not questioning your opinions. These are issues everyone going into this field deals with - what is the value of the education, intrinsically, practically, financially, etc. Everyone should make their own decision. Next year my D hopefully will have some choices - and she might have to weigh a “name” against a program, cost, location, etc. Maybe it will all roll into one, but we can’t assume that.</p>

<p>I guess what I’m saying is that I’m finding it hard to understand just what it is you have decided you want, or where your information has come from, and from that, how to help you. The fact that your name here is “tenyearplan” makes me think that you are very forward-focused, and that’s great. I just wonder if you’re selling your dreams short somehow.</p>

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<p>Good post, EmmyBet, and I would add that you might want to expand your thinking so that you can be more flexible come April of senior year. A big part of going to college is getting out of the house and experiencing life on your own but within a community and a structure to daily life. You may find that if you have no options, staying at home may not seem so desirable once everyone you know is leaving home.</p>