<p>I am one of those of students with a high gpa but low test scores. I know for a fact that SAT scores tell way more about intelligence than GPA. I have a high GPA because i work hard. I have a low SAT score because im not that smart. I am a minority,and I am not "well-off" but that doesnt matter. At my school, I have a higher gpa than many kids with higher SATs. But I know for a fact that I am way dumber than most of them. All the truly smart kids do well on the SATs. Its a fact. Im anxious to see the schools that accept me( im applying to a few ivies). my parents think that i'll get in easily to some top schools because i'm "smart" but i try to explain that i'm really not. if i was, i would be able to do alot better on the standardized tests. the smartest students at my really competitive school have high SATs and GPAs. People are shocked when i tell them about my SAT scores because they think i'm "smarter" than that.</p>
<p>1980collegegrad: If the potential wasn't there, no amount of prep or tutoring would have made that much of a difference. Think of the person with natural athletic abilities that has never applied him/herself to any sport. All of a sudden they pick up tennis, start to play a lot, then decide to take lessons, and get a good coach. I'm sure that in a relatively short period of time they would be doing as well, if not better, than other people that have been playing longer and have less natural ability. Sometimes, when you lead horses to water, you can make them drink.</p>
<p>The SAT correlates very well with IQ as we know. Both place a premium on words: vocabulary, reading comp, use of language in general. Vocabulary is the single best test of intelligence, and the largest portion of our brain is devoted to language.</p>
<p>Words are available to everyone but only a few develop grand vocabularies, engage in word play, use analogies, abstraction ,etc and this is what separates the smart from the not so smart. Yes, IQ tests also correlate with income and for the most part the smart earn better. That is, income also correlates with IQ.</p>
<p>By far the easiest way to raise graduation rates is to admit only students who can dependably pay the four (or six) year full freight. You likely could get rid of GPA and SATs all together.</p>
<p>And have standards increased when graduation rates go up? Or did passing classes become easier?</p>
<p>I kind of like the SAT II's as a measure; they are uniform by subject and you can measure them up against the grade a student received in the subject. Truly, an A at one high school cannot be compared to an A at another. I still don't understand how colleges use the SAT II's though.</p>
<p>"I still don't understand how colleges use the SAT II's though" I was told that they are used for class placement somehow but who knows.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I still don't understand how colleges use the SAT II's though.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>One example: </p>
<p>I won't argue about the way they are being used, I just think that there are better ways.</p>
<p>Of course its a little better than the olden days when the application was "are you white?", "how much do your parents make?" and "do you have a phallus?" Well that's it for me. See you guys tomorrow!</p>
<p>supereagle, I think its great that you can admit what you are and what you aren't. If there was some way I could give you e-props I would. Props because you are truthful about yourself and props because you are evidence of what I have always believed. There are two main traits of college students:</p>
<ol>
<li>Naturally intelligent</li>
<li>Hard worker</li>
</ol>
<p>The truly top of the top will have both. Some have more of #2 than #1. Others have more of #1 than #2. SAT's = #1 and GPA = #2. I hate how much high school was based of worksheets, homeworks, class participation, journals, etc. If high school was like college where almost your entire grade was based on tests, a lot less kids would have 4.0's.</p>
<p>I hope its true. I have a 2.375 gpa, but I have a decent 1930 SAT.</p>
<p>thanks startraksfinest. I think its quite obvious. its just that people who do poorly on the SAT want to blame anything but their own intellect as the reason why.</p>
<p>Wow, supereagle10! That's a pretty admirable thing to admit...way to go! "Smart" or not, you'd be the sort of person I'd want to see get into good schools.</p>
<p>Some arguments were already voiced on this thread, but there are a few new ones:
Just</a> Name, Rank and SAT Number.</p>
<p>I'm surprised the New York Times didn't publish a letter taking it to task for the punctuation error the New York Times editor put in the title of the Op-Ed. :) </p>
<p>P.S. Can all of you students correct the title's punctuation?</p>
<p>the SAT doesn't measure intelligence...
if anything it measures socioeconomic status of the family...
Statistics show a disproportionate number of kids hailing from wealthy families and elite private schools do better on standardized tests like the SATs...
What happened to the notion of many different layers of intelligence? Critics of IQ tests have long argued that there are many facets to intelligence, many of which can't be measured by a standardized test, this must hold true when it comes to SATs as well.
I think the best indicator of success in college would be one's work ethic and attitude towards learning.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, in my earlier post I was referring to SAT Is.
I think SAT IIs are great when it comes to demonstrating your knowledge of a subject.</p>
<p>Tokenadult, that could be a question in the writing section (I could answer it, but I need 4 choices to be able to make an educated guess).</p>
<p>I would stress that SAT scores are important, but alot of peple say, "smarts, smarts, smarts" is all it measures... You must prepare also and "play" smart. </p>
<p>Story time:
I had a teacher that was a "wild child". He tried pro-cycling in Europe before going to college and did stuff like that(Made a vacation company later on)... And he went to take the SAT. HE told me "I think a vegetable could have done better, it was sort of scary". He told me he got a score that was lower than his monthly car payment(or something to that effect)... He took a practice test and a few weeks later took the SAT and got a high 1500. </p>
<p>What does that tell me:
Do yourself a favor... Take a few practices and get your mind into the mood... I was told I might want to take the SAT on the last saturday of a week long break. More sleep during break and I can do a practice test a day until then... Not alot of stress helps also. I have never taken the SAT(Only ACT) so best of luck to everyone.</p>
<p>SAT = test of knowledge
test of preparation
(a very crappy) test of aptitude</p>
<p>I think a lot of smart people get screwed by it because they think they are good enough to take the test cold and then they find out they don't even know how the format works.</p>
<p>The thing is, if you prepared and everything and took the test under perfect conditions than it's prolly a great measure of college success. However, I know quite a few people who are smart but didn't sleep much the night before or had their minds blank on the test day who would do perfectly fine in college. </p>
<p>Dunno, I just don't really like it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
the SAT doesn't measure intelligence...
if anything it measures socioeconomic status of the family.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How would high school grades differ in this regard? Family socioeconomic status also provides many advantages for seeking high school grades.</p>