@drummergirl you successfully negotiated? Any tips on things to say and words to use?
My definition of a āsafetyā would mean it is a school you could see yourself attending, but it is just an admit that you are reasonably certain to receive. I agree I donāt think one should ever apply to a school you would not consider attending.
I know a tenor who went for undergrad at 21. He worked his tail off for a few years and ended up at his very competitive top choice while continuing to study voice. It is working great for him and heās really getting every penny worth of his education. I think my kid would choose a BA with strong music teachers and re-evaluate for grad schools at this point, but every student is different. My kid is also quite academic and just really raring to go to college. I do agree that you should actually be willing to attend that safety.
A lot of great comments above. Hereās my 2 cents:
Based on my experience and others, I think you can do it either wayā¦short or long list. Some have already posted about the reason to do the long list particularly concerning finances so I wonāt repeat that good advice. We did the long list for those very reasons. But here are two scenarios about how it can go down in real life.
1.) The long list: Starting with a list of 10 schools. The list will probably be cut by a school or twoā¦as you navigate incredible time constraintsā¦that you cannot foresee but will experience in the fall. Then you may get a pre-screen rejection. Now you are down to 8 with one safety which will put you at 7 schools really. At this time, you will start to try to figure out the audition scheduleā¦and donāt be surprised if you are forced to drop one or get so tired at some point that you do a video submission. This is not a bad time to cull the list if you pass almost all prescreens or you get a good read during auditions. So maybe you live audition at 5 or 6 schools (and do a video submission at a school or 2 of lower interest). Then you get an early rejection. So now you have 4 or 5 schools to worry about. Maybe you are accepted at all 5! But one doesnāt give you the money you needā¦so you are down to 4 or possibly 3 schools. Your kid decides he doesnāt like one after all. Some one gave him the evil eye during auditions or his best frenemy was accepted and thereās no way his hanging around with that guy for 4 years!. Now you have 2 or 3ā¦and only one with great financialsā¦but of course your kid likes the other(s). Youāll wish you had just one more school!! LOL. Lesson: a long list will continue to shorten throughout the process. You wonāt audition at all schools live (nor should you).
2.) The short list: You go for 3 or 4 great fits based on good knowledge and pass all pre-screens and can easily do all auditionsā¦you may honestly be hitting the sweet spotā¦IF you donāt have to worry about money or picked schools with automatic scholarships that are going to work for you. So if your S insists on a small list it could work. But note that if you miss one pre-screen and/or get one rejectionā¦you are down to 3 or 2 schools. Is that OK? Iām assuming this is a pretty knowledgeable family so he will pass most if not all prescreens. If your kid is not going to āchangeā in the process, you may be fine. BUT my Dās opinion changed during auditions/visits (and I do hear this from others - the process matters in finding the right fit). My D went from liking LACs to really questioning the smaller atmosphere. It took a few visits and auditions for that to happen. I remember the moment it happened sitting in a car after an audition in Febā¦thinkingā¦really, nowā¦but also feeling relieved bc I didnāt think it was a fit for her personality/background. So if you have 2 schools in the end and your S decided a small school is not what he wantsā¦you may be left with one choice. Maybe thatās OKā¦and as it should be. But be aware of the āprocessā and having enough variety in choice (financial, type, curriculum) to offset the vagaries of a 17 year old brain.
The biggest unknown was not my kidās talent but her whims! She just didnāt know exactly who she wasā¦and as a vocalist had only been serious about classical for 2 years prior to auditions. Still your S may know who he is, may have been playing a lot longer and be insistent on a shorter listā¦thatās fineā¦if he understands the consequences. He may KNOW based on summer programs that he has a good shot for certain schools. And I think this is hard for parents to get their minds aroundā¦is sometimes the kids kind of know where they belongā¦it is a bit riskyā¦but in music I think many know based on watching other students.
@bridgenail, great comments above - I couldnāt agree more. @akapiratequeen my S is a junior at New England Conservatory. @NYsaxmom āsuccessfullyā is debatable. The school doubled his small award, relying on his merit-based scholarship from Oberlin which was still 3x what we ended up getting. Oh and @akapiratequeen, would your S consider Hartt/University of Hartford? I remember an amazing sax quartet performance there on audition day, I know they have jazz and education and they give generous scholarships.
Oh man @bridgenail your post resonates SO MUCH with us right now!!! Seriously spot on. Especially navigating the whims of my D and constant changing of her mind on things. Right now, she is seriously all over the place. I feel for her, I really do. She sent me a bunch of texts this morning from school saying she was up half the night weighing out pros and cons of each of her top choices. Mind you we havenāt even gotten the financials for one of them yet so that all may be mute. Can a college decision be any more difficult for any kid out there than the decision of a musician or artist? Iām hard pressed to think so.
Absolutely everything you said resonated with us. We ended up bailing on an audition due to exhaustion (and low interest) and sent videos. D was still accepted there but with no money. Doesnāt matter, she had already decided she would go to the school that she had an early acceptance with a great offer from if nothing else came through.
Our biggest regret, not spending enough time at 2 of the schools that are now making up her top 3. We really have ZERO feel for the school, the classes, the faculty (maybe just at one of them) or the overall vibe. She thinks she knows but I think she doesnāt. So here I am looking at travel costs to possibly go back in April to visit in more depth and the airfares are outrageous. I donāt know what to do. We may try to go if the financials come in line with what we can afford.
And after all of this, I think I posted this the other day, D texted me saying āIām so mad I didnāt apply at Cal Arts!!ā. She has never been there but with her whims and constant mind changing, she feels that she wishes she had an LA based choice. Sigh. I am trusting my friends when they say āshe will be great wherever she ends upā. And if sheās not happy then we can go through this all over again next year if she wants to transfer. But I really hope we get it right the first time. THIS. IS. NOT. EASY.
First, so many thanks to all of you! This site is invaluable for helping to navigate the maze of music auditions/acceptances.
My question to follow up on questions about negotiating for more aid: Should the discussion initially be with the professor or with the financial aid department? We are waiting for more information from 2 schools but I anticipate we will be in the position of trying to make Sās first choice work, and that means we need more help. The professor has already called S to follow up on the admission offer, which I hope is a sign that the desire to make this work is mutual. For what itās worth, we are looking for more merit aid; the āneed basedā aid was calculated to be so minimal as to be nothing (although we could request an appeal of that decision). Suggestions?
Thatās a great question @lfpparent, I wonder the exact same thing. Do we appeal to the prof (as in the student sned email to the prof) or the dean of admissions for the music school? Dās voice teacher talked to me yesterday and said to appeal to the dean. Iāve heard it every possible way.
My son applied to just four programs, all competitive, all well out of reach financially, and all late-March admission announcementsā¦which meant I spent most of the month stressing and questioning his every decision, his very talent, and his entire futureā¦. 
That said, we wouldnāt have changed a thing about his approach (the parent agony, well, looking at this thread alone, itās clear that partās a given no matter how large or small the list, amiright?!).
(I think Iāve told this story before, but my son actually really only wanted three of the four, and I insisted on the last one at the final hour because I was hitting panic modeā¦and I must admit that one was a complete waste of time, money, and stress, because it was never really a legitimate contender in his eyes!)
Hereās the thing: thereās no one answer to āhow many?ā because every musician and every situation is incredibly unique. It depends on goals (program, curriculum, type of learning environment, faculty, talent of peers, prestigeā¦whatever factors in for the musician), personality (independence level, distance from home, location/city, campus vibe, decision-making history), instrument (how competitive, how popular), genre (how competitive, how popular, how widely offered), finances (full-pay, meets-need, generous scholarshipsā¦), grades/scores (if applicable, and may affect finances where relevant), level of experience and talent (prior audition experience, whether there is reliable data about where the musician is likely to stand relative to other candidates at each institution, etc.)ā¦and so on. Oh, and I suppose one other biggie consideration matters, too: risk tolerance!
My son very much knew himself and what he wanted and at what level, and he knew what he didnāt want, and that narrowed his list dramatically (his genre isnāt as widely offered as others). His list made perfect sense to anyone in the know (and certainly to his audition panels). He also felt contented with the fact that had his targets not worked out (had they not admitted him or not offered scholarships), he didnāt want to go anywhere elseāheād have regrouped, studied with someone, saved up money, and reapplied the following year.
So yeah, weāre not big on āsafeties,ā either. 
(Gratefully, all four came in as economically feasible offers in the end.)
By the way, I feel like popping some popcorn as I eagerly await giddy announcements about final decisions from these talented kids Iāve never met whose worlds are so wide open right now! (Iām sitting back making guesses about whoās going where and wondering who my son may end up playing with one day soonā¦I gotta say, itās great fun to have no skin in the game this year! 
)
Yes, @bridgenail your post is spot on. Pretty much everything you said resonated with me. Because my daughter is aiming for Contemporary programs and we have very few who have traveled this journey before us we had a long list. One thread onCC has been particularly helpful in helping us compile a list of schools from the beginning. My daughter started with a long list of 12 schools including one non audition more academic program. As you said lots of things come into play once you start the application process. She ended up completing 8 applications, 2 pre screens and 3 video auditions. Then she got cold feet and decided that maybe she would regret not applying to some top academic programs if her auditions didnāt go well. Her stats are very strong, so I didnāt want to say no. She came up with 5 additional schools she wanted to apply to. As Nov and Dec rolled around the workload became overwhelming and she decided that she wanted to focus on the music programs so she applied to one top academic reach school, lo and behold the girl got in! All of this, which I saw as a distraction, also caused her to not complete the application for a reach music school. The one school that I now wonder, what if.
As for the kids that think they KNOW where they belong. Yep thats her too. She has felt that way throughout this process. Unwavering. Unfortunately that school is not financially feasible at the moment. So we are still trying to determine the best fit for her. As I mentioned in a previous post we will be spending spring break looking at schools.
As Spartandrew said I think seeing a few classes and hopefully some musicians play at each school will help my daughter find her home.
I never dreamed we would be traveling again at this point in the process. But off we go.
@YertleTurtle Iād love to know where your crystal ball says my daughter might end up!
My D started with a longer list but ended up auditioning to 7 programs and 1 video audition. I cannot imagine doing much more and she was primarily targeting CA. I also agree that a safety should be a place that a student would want to go and would be happy there otherwise it is a waste of an application/tuition. At one college that had a pre-screen, she had a strong negative reaction to the campus. Said sheād rather take a year off and go to Community College. She canceled that audition and application.
We started with 12-14 programs but they were mostly state schools so the applications were easier. I tried to encourage a wide net because her academics are not as strong and she has only been singing classical voice for about a year and a half. Really didnāt know what to expect. However, many of the schools fell off her list as the audition season progressed.
I canāt imagine her doing one more audition. We are still fatigued from it.
Iāll admit that we added the safety where my D has absolutely ZERO desire to attend! Too close to home. But I really felt it needed to be added in case none of the others came through as either options or affordable options. To me it was 1) Cheap and 2) close to home so a better option in my opinion than a gap year and she could hone her craft and then try again and transfer if she needed to.
And Iāll second that @YertleTurtle! We should all start placing our bets on whose kid goes where lol. Winner gets crystal ball bragging rights! :-))
Congrats to all of you on your success this month!
Of course I donāt know any of you IRL and Iāve only been lurking for a month or so but I feel like celebrating right along with you!
Iām soaking up all the collected wisdom here for our D17 (drummer in her junior year) for next year. The one thing Iām struggling to apply to our situation is that she currently has criteria in place that basically limit us to 3 schools. Simply put, she loves both popular and jazz, and therefore is really only interested in schools that offer robust programs in both. So that even if she applies for a BM in Jazz Drums, she wants to do that in an environment with other contemporary musicians beyond jazz to collaborate and play with. Sheās in the Pre-College Jazz program right now at MSM, so she has a clear sense of the academic environment for jazz, and so I consider this to be an informed opinion on her part.
Unless weāve overlooked something, that seems to limit our selection to USC, Frost, and Berklee.
We visited USC last month. Weāre hitting Frost in April. And she has lots of friends at Berklee so she already has a sense of what that scene is like. If Iām being honest her POV is that Berklee feels too big and too requiring of you to chart your own course. Which really has us down to two schools. She loved USC and she has lots of friends at Frost, so I suspect sheāll love that too. But the thought of having just 2 schools is somewhat terrifying. All your discussion on this topic has been invaluable in helping think that through.
The only way I can think of to make peace with it was based on something the Dean at USC said to my D during our visit: āIf you know where you really want to go, make it happen. Donāt settle for a plan B, take a gap year and focus on what you need to improve.ā
It sounds gross to say it, but financial aid isnāt really a factor as we donāt actually need to make that part of the decision. And Iām fine with the idea of her taking a gap year to practice and gig and learn more of the ropes of the business. So is it crazy with her criteria and those conditions to consider only applying to two or three schools if those are the only ones that really feel like a fit for what she wants?
@DrummerDad18 - I canāt PM you since you are a new user, but maybe you can PM me? I am nearing the end of the process with a percussionist myself. I have some information we learned along the way that might be useful.
@ifpparent - I can only tell you what my D did in a similar situation. She did contact the teacher and told her that the school was her #1 choice due in large part to her as a professor. I believe she mentioned an important aspect of the teaching/relationship. She told her if she could get more dollars, which would make it affordable, she would commit (this should be true). She asked the teacher the best way to go about increasing her merit award as she didnāt want to make any mistakes as it was important to her. This was not for financial aid! The teacher went to bat for her and asked her what she needed. This was after all offers were in so she could communicate her other offers. At some point, the conversation switched over to the financial people but she knew the teacher was supporting her request.
@DrummerDad18 - wish I had a good answer for you. Hopefully some of the parents with contemporary/jazz students can answer. 2 or 3 is a short list but if she is willing to do a gap year that takes the pressure offā¦and she may change strategy (or not) on the second go-around. And who knows maybe sheāll add something as she gets into the summer/fall.
@DrummerDad18 It sounds like your daughter is very talented. But as said many times here, things can be very unpredictable in this process. Hopefully Ifpparent can offer up some guidance. Otherwise I would suggest you look into New School and Loyola New Orleans. In my discussions with Loyola I have learned that they do have a jazz ensemble in the commercial music program. That may be something to consider. Maybe @SpartanDrew can share more info on these two schools.
Since Iām on a roll todayā¦I want to be sure @SpartanDrew and @diglass know the road ahead for some:
March Madness
April Angst
Buyer Remorse May (wellā¦maybe that was just me)
@DrummerDad18 Maybe look into Belmont, McGill, and NYU (Steinhart). But for all your logical, informed reasons (which echo ours last year)āand without the additional burden of financial constraints and with the full understanding that a gap year is a palatable possibilityāI wouldnāt be opposed to going after just what your daughter wants and nothing more! Someone mentioned a āsweet spot,ā and it sounds like you guys might be there!