Congrats to all of you on your admissions and offers!
I canāt tell you all how useful this community is to those of us 1 year out from all this excitement/drama, especially as we begin our own journey.
We visited USC last month and are headed down to Frost second week in April and weāve lined up meetings with most of the Jazz faculty and admissions folks. Very exciting.
But I do have one question for all of you who are deeper into process at Frost. As I mentioned previously my daughter is interested in both jazz and popular music. At USC it felt like thereās a relatively distinct line between the two programs, although you can choose to take classes from faculty on the other side of school I think.
But from what Iāve read it seems like Frost enables more crossover. At least in as much as Iāve read that you can minor in CAM regardless of which performance program you are in. Is that correct?
And frankly Iām a bit confused by all the acronyms and naming of the programs at Frost.
I understand that Jazz drums lives within Studio Music and Jazz Instrumental Performance BM.
But is there a non-jazz, popular drum performance major? Like the popular music performance major at USC?
Or would a non-jazz performance major fall under something else?
And is MADE more of a music business major while CAM is a writing/repertoire minor?
They all sound interesting but Iām a little confused by the structure of how it all works.
Thanks for any guidance from folks who have deciphered the language or gotten it explained.
Just want to be as knowledgeable as possible before we head down there so we donāt leave any nooks and crannies of the school unexplored.
@violamama - my D was accepted to Peabody as well and received a music scholarship but have no idea how it compares as the COA is still way too high for serious consideration. Please PM me (Iām unable due to # of posts) if you are willing to share amount as it would be a good data point to know before I give them a call on Monday.
HI flutesupporter ,
I donāt think I can message you. I tried, but I only have 7 posts myself! His scholarship was $25k, and he was really bummed out. He was hoping for much more. The award letter said he could apply for about $45k in loans (not going to happen!). Anyway, did receive a very encouraging email from the teacher he applied to study with, and they said they had a very large number of viola applicants with only a few spots available.
After son gets over hurt feelings, we may appeal. Who knows.
Thanks for sharing violamama. Comparable but more than we were offered. MSM and NYU offered $0.
Thank you for sharing flutesupporter. Yikes on offers from MSM and NYU. Stay strong.
@flutesupporter We applied to several conservatories and MSM gave us no money either. Heartbreaking since it was his top school. Even a little bit would of felt better but understand it is a business and they need to make quota.
Any hard and fast rules for appealing scholarship awards? Better to contact them immediately or wait until others have declined possibly freeing up additional money? Who should make the call - parent or student? Is it better to state what is needed to make the decision a YES, keeping in mind it is not an unreasonable amount? Have an offer from in state school where they are covering 60% of COA ($26K) but not sure how that converts to $70K conservatory or if that will carry any weight.
We didnāt do any negotiating but the topic of increasing aid if needed was brought up by the professor/chair of dept. not us. Not sure how relevant that is but just mentioning it 
My family successfully appealed financial aid awards several timesāfor D4, she managed to triple her award at her first choice undergrad school, for D3, in grad school, she managed to raise her award to cover full tuition at her first choice school. In both cases, we went through an official process and also gathered faculty support. For undergrads, we the parents prepared the appeal. For D3ās grad appeal, it was the student. In both cases, we had awards in hand from comparable (or in D4ās case, more competitive) schools. These awards were matched. Not every institution will consider appeals, and of those who will, not for every student. But I have coached multiple other parents through this process and most were successful in increasing the award, significantly in some cases.
Well, we are now down to 2 schools and D is trying to decide between them. We have submitted an appeal for one of them and for the other we hope to bump that offer by a bit as well if the appeal on the first doesnāt happen. D and I met with an admissions counselor from Loyola who came to her school last week. She made the comment with regard to appeals, āSome schools have a hard and fast number that is non-negotiable and others have some wiggle room. But most offers are a starting pointā¦ā SO to me, that was encouraging.
@DrummerDad18 I have some comments on Frost. Sorry for the delay, we have been up to our eyeballs in things. First off, what I am finding at the vast majority of colleges is that there is a LOT more money in jazz programs than there is in Popular music. I had been told that USC has ZERO merit money in their popular music program. I donāt know if thatās accurate but itās what I had heard. I also know of many kids auditioning in MADE at Frost who were offered no money. Even with the CAM minor. To be selected for the CAM minor your D needs to write her own original music. Thatās what you audition with and it is a very selective program. We guestimated around 130 kids auditioned for MADE/CAM and know that they are only taking 12 for CAM. Iām unsure on MADE. Iām not sure if Iāve heard of a drummer only auditioning for CAM but I can tell you one kid we saw there currently in the CAM program had a backing track to an original (recorded either by him on other instruments or other kids, not sure) and played drums on the song. He was great as was the song! Another kid really couldnāt sing at all but was brilliant on guitar and composing the songs. So he had other CAM students sing on his tunes. Try to meet with some of the CAM faculty and sit in on the Friday CAM studio class as well.
I had a Frost student tell me on our last visit that they thought the MADE major didnāt have enough substance to it so they decided on a music business major. I have no comment on that but am relaying what a Frost student said. Personally, based on our experience, if your D is on the fence between jazz and Pop music Iād push her towards the jazz route. More scholarship money and it doesnāt preclude her from doing pop music at all but likely will give her more technique and skills to do anything.
I suspect we will be down to the wire at the end of April with Dās final decision. She is truly torn. She finds plusses and minuses about both of her top choices although if the one appeal doesnāt happen then her choice is made for her. That might be the easier solution in the end LOL.
@DrummerDad18 it looks like your D could audition solely in contemporary performance at Frost. However, she would choose a major in one of the following: Music Business and Entertainment Industries, Music Engineering Technology, Media Writing and Production, Music Education, Music Theory/Composition, Music Therapy, and the Bachelor of Arts in Music. So that last choice is a BA, not a BM.
Would your D consider William Paterson? Lots of great drummers went there, including Mark Guiliana and Tyshawn Sorey.
@DrummerDad18 Always chose Jazz over Pop!
The crossover is easy and there is no money for Pop
my S18 is the perfect example of this. Heās as good a pop musician/songwriter/producer as a 17 year old could be - four Albums, contest awards, long performance resume. Accepted into all the programs he applied for.
Not a dime of music based money! But it makes sense
Take Frost where he was accepted. MADE/CAM Itās mandatory that they fill chairs in the orchestra. There are scheduled performances. Ensembles need to be excellent. If they arenāt, the schools reputation will suffer.
No one will knock them for not producing commercial music success. If their top 10 kids turn them down for lack of money, so what? Eventually someoneās Mom and Dad will write the check to indulge their kid.
Thanks @SpartanDrew and @drummergirl thatās super helpful and clarifying.
My D isnāt a songwriter, so no CAM wouldnāt be something sheād audition for.
I was simply confused when I asked about it as I thought somehow that CAM was what they called the popular music program overall, not just an exclusive songwriting component within the contemporary program. I had been thinking it was the analog to USCās Popular program, but itās obviously not.
So that makes more sense now: CAM is a bonus/add on for a limited number of songwriters regardless of whether they are pursuing a degree in contemporary or studio music/jazz (although I would assume most would be MADE/Cam minor vs StudioMusicJazz/Cam Minor)?
And so if Iām reading correctly MADE is the interdisciplinary major that you would apply to if your primary goal was contemporary performance on an instrument? What they call ācontemporary performance principalā? So those are the two options for a drumset instrumentalist: MADE with contemporary performance principal or Studio Music/Jazz.
@SpartanDrew yes, the technique and chops development from the jazz program is exactly what attracts her to it, even if she doesnāt see herself long term as a straight jazz player. And frankly it seems they get that at UM which is why they have so many diverse ensembles (fusion, R&B, latin, vocal, etc.)
The financial angle is one that is also very interesting. And I guess it makes sense given there are relatively few contemporary schools (compared to dozens of jazz schools) and therefore they feel they donāt need to fight as hard to win those students as they have fewer choices? Or maybe thereās some other reason.
And @drummergirl Iāll go check out William Paterson, thanks for the lead.
Thanks again for the wisdom from your experience!
@JerseyParents Fascinating! I hadnāt really thought of that but you are right. At least for the present, a music schoolās reputation and brand is based more on the quality of their ensembles and orchestras and chamber groups. Not whether somebody wrote a cool indie single that became a youtube hit.
And you are likely right about there being just enough parents who will pay full boat. If CAM accepts just 12 kids and USC Popular Music accepts just 25, then to fill those 2 programs they only need to find 37 families who are willing to pony up. That seems pretty easy to do.
Thanks again. All of her appointments and meetings at Frost for our visit are with Jazz dept. So thatās very much where sheās leaning. I just didnāt want to overlook anything we needed to check out while we were there.
@DrummerDad18, I think thatās correct. My S applied there in jazz so no personal experience but one of the faculty we spoke to highlighted the opportunity for crossing genres at Frost. Good idea to look at the ensemble opportunities at a program. Iāve been amazed at the variety at NEC. By the end of this school year, Iāll have seen my S play in ensembles including Persian Music, American Roots, Rhythm and Blues, Improv, Film Noir, Cobra (John Zorn) and Jewish Music!
@DrummerDad18 I also think @musicdm could be a good source of information for you as well. Her S is an exceptionally accomplished drummer who is deciding right now where he wants to go and what offers were fruitful. It sounds like percussionists and guitarists along with vocalists are about as competitive as you can get with limited spots.
@DrummerDad18 Yes if you want to PM me. I canāt figure out how to PM on this site ???
DrummerDad and Drummergirl - Iām intrigued that we now have two parents of female percussionists on here. Iāve heard that a female jazz bassist is like a unicorn - so what does that make female jazz percussionist?
Iām curious - how many jazz percussionists have you all come across? Our daughter would give her eye teeth to play with a female percussionist.
@musicdm Odd, I canāt PM you either. Oh well, maybe when Iāve posted more lol.
@tripletmama There are precious few female jazz instrumentalists in general and fewer still on bass/drums.
Iām sure our Ds have already gotten used to being the only ladies in the lineup.