The trouble with college visits

Parents Forum
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<p>Well, just personally going through the process this year, taking D this spring (her Junior year) on a long 2 week roadtrip to visit the 10-12 schools on her list. Luckily we have 2 weeks off for spring break (and our college counselers recommend all juniors start their visits at this time especially because colleges are in session)</p>

<p>I believe you have to go in knowing you may or may not like the tour guide. Not everyone is going to click. My D serves as a tourguide for the Private HS she attends and believe me, she sometimes has the same opinion as some of you do in revers (ie I can’t believe how dippy / egotistic / boring / etc) these parents and child I had to tour today were. And I am sure, even though my D has been a tourguide in her HS for 3 years now, and is very personable, some parents may be saying the same thing about her.</p>

<p>But to me the visit is important to really get a feel for a school, to talk to other students, feel the vibe of the campus, sit in on a class or too, sample the food, etc. All the tings you can not do looking at a website</p>

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<p>This is a great conversation!</p>

<p>Two things I’d like to say:</p>

<p>1) I’ve put colleges’ approaches to info sessions into three categories, and my D and I have learned to recognize them immediately: A) “Think about these ideas as you go through your college search, and here are some things about us that are relevant”; B) “We are so COOL! Look at all of the wonderful things people - and YOU - can do here!”; and C) “We are the way we are - take it or leave it, but know what you are getting into.”</p>

<p>These kinds of approaches have VERY different effects - and I don’t have a problem with any of them, except perhaps B. It’s a hard sell, and it tends to make the kids either very starry-eyed or very intimidated. I don’t even mind C, since it’s honest and useful.</p>

<p>For the record, in the visits we’ve done with D1 and D2, I can say that the following schools fit these categories (sometimes surprisingly):</p>

<p>Approach A: Tufts, Lawrence, Northwestern
Approach B: Brandeis, Carnegie Mellon
Approach C: Brown, Bard (our session there was not ditzy, my D fell in love with the tour guide, and the info session was frank and filled in a lot of gaps that they can’t print on the website, such as “If you are not interested in a Senior Project, that’s fine, but don’t come here because that’s what we’re all about”)</p>

<p>2) I definitely have used the tours as a parent to learn about my D, not so much about the school (I can do that otherwise). I watch how she reacts to see what turns her on or off. She loves “college” and tends to love everywhere we go, but I’m pushing her to figure out why, examine the details (she’s a jr now, and we’ve done 3 tours and 3 drive-throughs) so she can start building a real list. I think fit and the gut reaction is absolutely crucial; academic and social opportunities are so similar from place to place. And there are no guarantees - they, and we, do need to learn to understand and trust their feelings. </p>

<p>We watch for whether our D’s could “see themselves” there, and we watch out for a “socko” selling approach. Otherwise we just soak it in and let it be. Seeing students is helpful, but I try not to get crazed about whether they look happy (maybe it’s exams, or maybe it’s a coincidence). We do like to talk to kids if we can, just for fun, and the community is very important to both of my kids, each with her own tastes.</p>

<p>Thanks again for starting this talk. I had wanted to put these two cents in for a while!</p>

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<p>I want to say that I do not predict the same experience for anyone at the schools I listed, nor do I criticize. These are logical alternatives for the schools to use, and it may vary among admissions staff (although I suspect CMU uses the same power point with everyone). I just do appreciate knowing what schools people are talking about, so I thought I’d put that in, and maybe someone would want to comment on their own experience with them. And I did want to offer a differing opinion on a Bard visit!</p>

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<p>Kajon asked: “Do you guys think there is a strategy to making your first college visit? Should we consider the first visit more of a “getting your feet wet” adventure and test the waters with a school way down on the list or not even on the list?”</p>

<p>We had two different strategies with our two kids. DD was antipathetic to the whole college process, resented ALL college visits, ended up applying to only one school that was a fit for her, got in and went. It was a struggle because she was only mildly and briefly curious about what the schools felt like, tuned out during the admission sessions, and quickly dismissed virtually every school we visited.</p>

<p>So with her we toured Spring of junior year and leavened the college visits with events she enjoyed. For example, we toured UVM and skied; we toured some schools around Pennsylvania and went to two baseball games. Power trips to visit multiple colleges over a short amount of time? Not possible.</p>

<p>With DS it is quiet different. He’s curious and engaged in the selection process, so we started visiting colleges as part of family vacations in his sophomore year, using those visits NOT to put school on or off a list but to start the college screening process. For example, we had a Spring sophomore year family trip to Virginia and North Carolina and visited 3 schools over 5 days, along with Monticello and other tourist locations. It was a relaxed contemplative trip: what appealed/what didn’t appeal about those schools. None of those schools are on his list, but that first trip was invaluable. </p>

<p>The pace picked upon in junior year as we started adding schools that we parents thought would be a good fit, seeing 2 local schools. So by the time we took an explicit Spring junior year college trip to PA and NY (7 schools, 4 days) we were pretty much set on the criteria that would make a good fit and could hone in on schools that we parents thought fit those criteria. We also made sure to include fun family events (2 plays in NY) so the family had fun, too. 2 of those schools are on his list. When we had a family wedding in DC over Memorial Day weekend we visited one school, too. </p>

<p>Now its senior year and we’ve got a tentative list of 9 schools, including 4 financial aid safeties. Son and wife are doing a midwest weekend trip to see one school highly recommended for DS by school’s counselors and that might be a superb fit, and we’re adding a flagship State University on that trip because DS agreed to question his own prejudice that he wouldn’t like those large schools, and this school is a good one. We’re also driving north to see UVM and McGill, and that includes a family weekend visiting Montreal . . . I think wife and son agreed to my pushing for McGill to wangle a short Montreal vacation :-)</p>

<p>Add in a couple of overnights to local schools and that’s about it. We’ll see what the acceptances and financial aid packages are in the Spring and if a “school not visited yet” is a contender I guess we’ll send him on an overnight.</p>

<p>Our take home: match the intensity to the kid . . . And program in fun and/or interesting events to make sure that there is at least something not college to do. Everyone will appreciate the break.</p>

<p>Kei</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>I believe in college visits, but have a hard time getting a “feel” of the place in such a short time. I think overnights and sitting through classes are a better way of helping the kid visualize what it would be like to go to a school.</p></li>
<li><p>We visited two of my son’s acceptances on consecutive weekends. The first was on a cold, windy spring day. The second was on a warm, sunny spring day. Guess where he is now? (Warm, sunny Cleveland. Oops)</p></li>
<li><p>I find myself looking for reasons to like or dislike a school based on my preconceived opinion. Not good.</p></li>
<li><p>At one LAC, the young woman who gave the overview session was an awful presenter. She had graduated from the school the year before, and we figured she couldn’t get a job so they hired her into the admissions department. The tour guide, a junior, was wonderful. We left with a good impression.</p></li>
<li><p>At a larger state U, the info session filled a ballroom with several hundred parents and prospies. The tour guide (his first day) was pretty good and greeted a couple dozen people he knew as we walked around the huge campus. Afterwards, my D thought it had a “smallish school” feeling. If she goes there, she wants to be a tour guide.</p></li>
<li><p>There is never life on campus on a Saturday morning.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Way back when, I made my college decision based on the visit. College A: gorgeous late fall day, remnants of beautiful fall foliage, spectacular views of Long Island sound, well dressed polite students in full view. College B: dreary day in an old industrial town, ice and grey slush in the streets, street parking only (on a hill) and the car got stuck in the ice and snow, resulting in my learning a couple choice new words from my father. My parents were convinced my brother and I (visiting together) would choose College A. Brother chose a school closer to home, and I chose College B, in large part because of the friendly boys who readily dropped their bookbags to push our car out of the snow and ice. My choice was a good one, and I guess the visit can go either way.</p>

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<p>That’s cuz the monkeys are still asleep…</p>

<p>College campuses are probably the only places on earth that Starbucks is still pouring from its first pot at noon on Saturdays.</p>

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<p>I agree…completely…</p>

<p>Don’t JUST go to the college tour…arrive at the campus…sit around…watch the kids going to and from classes…do they look happy…are they wearing campus gear…sit in the campus Starbucks…are the students friendly…absorb the “culture” at the school.</p>

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<p>After two summers of touring colleges, I have decided that the best tour guides are students who either major or minor in theater. At Brown, Yale, Emory & Boston U, we had very good students as tour guides who had theater in the background. These students just had a lot of personality and enthusiasm for their schools. The worst tour we did was at a LAC in Pennsylvania where two freshman who graduated from prep schools kept babbling about how much help they get from the professors. My daughter responded to this stating that once you go to college you shouldn’t expect the professors to be holding your hands. They really gave a bad impression that people at the back of the tour started dropping out. My daughter also eliminated Duke from her list because they have gargoyles on their dorms. I also got her to look at Wesleyan even though it wasn’t in a major city, one of her requirements. I told her you have to look a variety of schools. They can’t all be in big cities. Turns out Wesleyan is one of her favorites. She also at first didn’t want to take tours but then found she enjoyed them.</p>

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<p>I haven’t read through all of the messages in this thread, but remember, there’s always an opportunity to visit a school that accepts your application (or re-visit it as the case may be). </p>

<p>In the spring of '07, my wife accompanied our daughter to the campus of a well-regarded private university in the Boston area for a second visit during accepted students week. We all thought this second visit would confirm our daughter’s previously-formed strong sense that this was going to be the place she would be attending: her top choice, and a “reach” school. She spent the afternoon and evening with other accepted students and by the following morning, she was ready to go home. I got the call at the office: “We’re jumping on the next plane to DC. Can you pick us up?” Me: “But you haven’t even talked to any of the profs or visited the labs. Aren’t you going to stay for the day and let them sell you on the place?” Daughter: “Nope. This is just not the place for me.” Me: “Anything in particular that changed your mind?” Daughter: “Oh, yeah. I met some of the other accepted students, and I just didn’t feel comfortable with them. That’s something that I didn’t experience last fall when we were here before.”</p>

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<p>mdoc, </p>

<p>Love your story!</p>

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<p>in thinking back to college visits with my son 2 years ago, I can say that one should visit when a school is in session. An empty campus is too difficult to get a read on. For one thing you can’t get a feel for the diversity of the student population.One can also apply to interesting schools/reach schools and not visit unless your kid is admitted, then a visit would serve to help decide among schools accepting him/her and saves time and money. And, of course, there is that difficult to describe and explain “click” that happens when a school is a match. It is not logical. My son decided not to apply to Middlebury and Dartmouth because it was too cold there when we visited in winter. Where does he attend/ Where is he exceedingly happy - University of Chicago!!! Go figure.</p>

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<p>As someone who visited a lot of schools before I applied (including some over the summer), I agree that sometimes kids make snap judgments about schools that aren’t necessary logical. OTOH, I also wonder why it matters, most of the time. (with the exception being if someone is in a rare major or otherwise has requirements such that they only have a few good schools to look at, or if someone is turning their nose up at every safety or all the schools that are likely to give the best aid)</p>

<p>There are a bunch of great schools in the US, at every level of selectivity. Even after someone has come up with criteria for what they want and read about a lot of schools, chances are, there are going to be more schools that are “fits” on paper than it is necessary to apply to. So how do you narrow it down? You could do it arbitrarily by paper/reputation (“oh, this school has 2% less diversity than that one,” or “I know one person at Y school who didn’t like it, I’ll drop it”), or you could do it via visits – perhaps also somewhat arbitrarily. But, either way, if the kid has a reasonable list to begin with, when they knock off schools that might actually be fine, the schools that stay ON the list will normally be just as good or better, which is all that really matters. </p>

<p>So, for example, was it kind of arbitrary that I decided to cut Haverford because on a communication board, someone was complaining that athletes had too much of a presence? Sure. Was it also kind of arbitrary that I didn’t even look at some very good schools (such as Amherst) because they seemed a little too mainstream on paper? Also, sure. But at the same time, if I hadn’t gotten into Wes ED, I still had a great and balanced list of 10-12 schools I wanted to apply too – if anything, I needed more random reasons to cut places!</p>

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<p>Lafayette looked bad in the summer to my kids. They were freaked out by the crumbling looking dorm with peeling paint and the absence of people only added to its overall weirdness. Stanford was raining caterpillars the day we visited. We were reminded again and again that it is after all a farm. Still, it was creepy to have them stuck to your hair and clothing. Don’t visit in April. Another visit to Stanford in January was beyond gorgeous. USC didn’t have a good vibe at all but that was primarily because the area around campus continues to be unwelcoming and the football team practices (in all its noisy glory right in the middle of campus). Ugh. Several visits to Berkeley were pleasant even in the cold fog and rain. UC Irvine was a busy, happy place which we also visited more than once, but their admissions office was lacking in organizational features. In the end the acceptable campus depended upon which “warts” they were willing to tolerate and which ones not. I am glad we made those visits, and I agree that going when classes are in session is vital. For instance a visit to Cal Poly SLO was not impressive but we were there during the last day of finals. A lot of tired, dragging students stumbling around. Cal Poly Pomona was equally not impressive even in spite of a good tour guide, but they didn’t have the finals week excuse.</p>

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<p>mdoc- was school A Connecticut College? </p>

<p>I know they have a bit of view of the sound. Haha, I’m considering there, which is why I ask.</p>

<p>If it is, good to know. I don’t get much of fall where I am. I think I might prefer that to early slush. xD </p>

<p>[See this is why I’m visiting in Nov. I need to see these things for myself. Haha.]</p>

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<p>We did not even discuss college visits until junior grades and SAT scores were in and we had a sense of what the safeties, matches, and reaches would be. We visited a couple over the summer, but saved the serious visits for interviews for merit aid and for accepted student days.</p>

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<p>Have any of you attended a larger-than-normal visit day, where the school plans an event, rather than the everyday tours? Is it generally better or worse?</p>

<p>I am taking my child to a “Fall Reception” at my alma mater, which includes speeches and a luncheon for prospective students, and each department will set up a station that parents and kids can walk up to and ask questions. I think could either be really fun - or might seem impersonal, rather than normal tours where you walk with one tour guide and a handful a people around the campus and peek into classes on a normal day.</p>

<p>Since we’re new at this, it would be helpful to get some advice, so I can talk to my son ahead of time, to give him an idea of what it will be like. (If he wants to see more, we can always go back on a quieter day.)</p>

<p>Pluses or minuses or experiences with this type of thing?</p>

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<p>I’ve done a few different kinds of visits and for the first round, I like an admissions presentation and a tour at a minimum or an interview and a tour. The open houses are nice because you often get departmental presentations or tours and often a free lunch. So far son has also picked up a free t-shirt (Arcadia) and free sports bags (Lycoming and Penn State IST department). We treat the visits as kind of casual look-sees but he is keeping a journal on-line to look at later when he makes the list of schools to apply.</p>

<p>IMHO, visiting now early in Junior year is much less stressful and we can look at in-state colleges that are matches or reaches but are different types so he can basically figure out what he wants in a college.</p>

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<p>We didn’t need to wait for SAT scores junior year since our school suggests sophomores take the PSAT for practice, so we had at least a ballpark idea of what our son’s scores would be. </p>

<p>I haven’t attended one of those big days. Plus is obviously departmental presentations, especially if your child has a strong interest in a particular department. The big minus though, I think, is that there are so many prospective students around that it may be harder to get a sense of what the actual student body looks like.</p>

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<p>Didn’t read all of this, but when we visited with our second, we skipped the info session and sometimes the tour. Hung out on the green or in the dining hall, and, especially, visited the bookstore and looked at courses and books for the courses.</p>

<p>If we were going to go with quick impressions, we did not want the impression to be engineered by the admissions office. The website and viewbooks have all that controlled information anyway, so the visit was to see the place and get vibes.</p>