The trouble with college visits

Parents Forum
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<p>Orchestramom – I certainly didn’t mean to attack you, or your daughter! Yours was just the most recent of umpteen posts where someone, a parent or a student, says essentially the same thing: I want more structure than Brown provides. My own kids – who went to Chicago – said exactly the same thing. And I have been wondering . . . well, I have been wondering what’s in my post.</p>

<p>I probably should have been a little less acid in mocking what I do believe are the logical fallacies in the common attitude toward open curriculum schools. Really, so many people talk that way, that no one should be singled out especially for attack because of it.</p>

<p>This probably deserves its own thread – a thorough airing of the Brown issue. (For some reason, it always IS a “Brown issue”. Even though Smith and Amherst, among others, have the same feature, you hardly see anyone saying “Oh, I want more structure than Amherst provides.”)</p>

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<p>Does anyone know of a thread on open-curriculum schools? I’m trying to think ahead for my D who wants a theater performance major. She’ll have to audition for most of her schools which means it will be a total crapshoot, and I’m looking for a place or two where she can dive seriously into theater without the audition. She’s very self-directed and diligent but she doesn’t test well and she will likely never go above a B in science, so I think Brown etc. are out of her range. Anyway, sorry this is off topic but since you’re on the subject I’m hoping you might be able to give me some direction. Thank you!</p>

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<p>The theater forum is full of a wealth of really brilliant folk who could direct you. We might know of open curriculum school that might have a theater audition, which you don’t want. They know the nuts and bolts of everything.</p>

<p>An above poster mentioned Smith.</p>

<p>As for wanting structure, I think that although it may be irrational, as JHS, points out, high school seniors aren’t necessarily rational (nor are any of us for that matter.)</p>

<p>My S was also accepted at Brown and U of Chicago and really liked both. I was rooting for both of them. He was among those who felt Brown lacked structure.</p>

<p>What does this mean? It means that he didn’t trust HIMSELF which is sad but acceptable for a seventeen-year-old boy. One might call it a bit of academic agoraphobia. </p>

<p>The core at U of Chicago appealed to him, but more agoraphobia – he didn’t particularly want to be a plane ride away and so far from home. Also sad, perhaps, compared to many valiant kids, but there it was.</p>

<p>Without other good options I know he would have gone to either school; he was not that phobic.</p>

<p>But he chose Williams, in between in terms of distribution requirements (though truth be told they’re rather light). And praise the Lord (sorry, if offensive – I’m not religious) he did not suffer from claustrophobia and find Williams too small or isolated.</p>

<p>In the end it was a wonderful choice for him in a way we couldn’t foresee. Passing his driving test and getting his own car (130,000 clunker, my last car but a Saab) and being able to drive himself to and from school and go off on trips in the car has been a major growing up experience for him. I know that public transportation is preferable from an ecological perspective, and this isn’t actually an academic skill, it has been very significant to his feelings of autonomy which were lacking.</p>

<p>(See above – agoraphobia.)</p>

<p>Trust the kid. S/he might know know why s/he has an objection or the words to make it clear, but it is probably valid all the same.</p>

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<p>This is too interesting a subject to hide in this thread, I’m going to start a new one.</p>

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<p>We had it narrowed down to three private (very selective and highly selective) LACs, all of which she has visited (interview, tour, meal, class) and to which she has been accepted. She was going to be on campus of one of them for a scholarship/interview event so decided to do an overnight.</p>

<p>My D was appalled at the amount of alcohol in the room (these were mostly freshmen) and the pervasive talk about boys and booze. She is not a prude and assures me she would not have thought twice about the girls having a beer or even one shot but these were students drinking to get drunk and they further reported this is a common event, even during the week. She understands they weren’t all that keen on talking about classes/important ideas on a Friday night but they could not even tell her what their friends were majoring in. </p>

<p>Of course this school is off the list but my D is very concerned that she will find this at the other two schools and now wants to apply to more “intellectual” schools . . . I have a list of those that accept late applications but am overwhelmed at having to start again . . . suggestions welcome!</p>

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<p>Derbydone, while I think it’s a good idea to look for alternatives if any are still out there, I also think you should consider the following:</p>

<p>1) It’s not at all unlikely that the girls your D was hanging out with were trying to impress her. They may have exaggerated their behavior (both actual and reported) for her benefit, at least a bit.</p>

<p>2) Not everyone at <em>any</em> school is like that. There will certainly be kids who party (if at all) more moderately and sensibly, and she will find them.</p>

<p>3) To accelerate that process, if she makes it clear on her housing form that this is not the atmosphere she’s interested in, she has a good shot at getting sympathetic roommates. Our son, for instance, said on his housing form that he wasn’t into partying (though he wasn’t horrified by it either), and wound up with two guys of similar predilections. There’s more booze, smoke and noise on his hall than he cares for, but at least he can escape it when he closes his bedroom door. And everything else about the school is working very well for him so far.</p>

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<p>This is a great thread to resurrect!</p>

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<p>Yes well, “intellectual schools” have drinking, too. Some of them more than others. There are many threads that have been written about which colleges tend to have a larger “party” scene than others if you do the research. I agree that not “everyone” parties so your D would eventually find friends wherever she ends up, but do know that it takes those kids sometimes abit longer to find each other and small schools don’t necessarily “compress” that “finding” period.</p>

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<p>This is why I think overnight visits are sometimes NOT a good idea. My D only did one, at a small LAC where she was accepted with a great merit package. After the overnight, it was off her list. Her host had to pass her off to another student when the other accepted high school senior she was hosting got sick from drinking and threw up in the dorm room. My daughter slept in a room of someone who wasn’t even her host, but at least she didn’t have to be in the room with someone who was very drunk and sick. I think it is easy to get the wrong impression on an overnight visit for good or for bad depending on the match with a host student. After that, she did no more overnight visits, and she is now a very happy freshman at another LAC. She told me she was glad she hadn’t done an overnight at her current school because if they had stuck her with a bad host, she might not be there today! When you are going to school somewhere, you can choose your friends and nighttime activities, but on an overnight visit, you can’t.</p>

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<p>There is such a thing as too much information. If a school has a generally good reputation I’d pay more attention to that and not some random night or some idealized image of what college life is supposed to be. Most people end up loving their college without ever spending a night there before arriving.</p>

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<p>Most LACs have sub-free floors in their dorms. She obviously didn’t get one of those. For future visits, I’d make sure those are available and are requested.</p>

<p>As people above said, every college has drinking but not everyone drinks. She’ll find her people.</p>

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<p>Whew. I feel better already!! Thank you . . . great insights and advice.</p>

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<p>I have heard this story many times. I think there’s a common impulse of young college students to try to impress the “prospies.” What a shame. And I’ve heard this at “intellectual” schools in particular. Maybe they want to break a stereotype?</p>

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<p>I hadn’t seen this thread before, so glad to see it this time around!</p>

<p>My daughter had a similar experience to Derbydone’s when she visited Pomona (which I believe is seen as pretty selective and intellectual, so maybe EmmyBet is on to something about breaking stereotypes). Her host was nice, but the overnight was all about drinking with the prospies (in a dorm room) and then going to a party where everyone was “grinding.” While she did say people were respectful of her choices not to partake (in drinking or grinding!), she was really disappointed at this taste of college life, and from one of the colleges that had been her favorite up til then. She’s still applying there (though it’s a reach anyway), but after that visit, St. Olaf began to look more appealing (as the most “conservative” college she’s applying to).</p>

<p>I talked to her about how at any college it will be a matter of finding her own group of friends. Now I find myself wondering if overnights are such a good idea.</p>

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<p>Too much information is right! Have heard these stories before. </p>

<p>The kids make their own friends & find EC’s for their own interests once they are enrolled. They also make more friends through their Work Study Job and so on. </p>

<p>These overnights sometimes sound like a “planned bad time”. Have never actually heard a prospective student complain that “nobody drank” so it was “boring”.</p>

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<p>I think purposeful visiting is much more helpful. D1 went to her first choice for a second visit, to sit in on classes, meet students, see ECs, etc. In some ways it was unnecessary, because she already knew she loved the school, but especially with the EC, it was very helpful. On the one hand, she found out the band was pretty lightweight, but she got to sit in with the choir and loved it. She applied ED and has been very happy there - and has been in the choir the whole 4 years.</p>

<p>D2 won’t have a chance to do these kinds of extra visits, but she did learn on her first visits what she really needed to see, for her own purposes. I think it’s hardest with schools you’re on the fence about - in some ways extra visits are nice, but sometimes they just increase the ambivalence, since a place can be so different on a different day, with different people.</p>

<p>Something that is so important is sadly not a science! It takes a lot of imagination and open-mindedness to choose a school, and a willingness to adjust to “surprises” once you’re there.</p>

<p>I think, though, that general reputations and the “buzz” about schools are usually pretty accurate, although I’d take the “college review” kind of websites with a grain of salt because they have an awful lot of people who just want to whine. If you’ve got a good idea of the reputation, if the programs work for you, and if you like the general physical atmosphere and have the idea that at least some of the people are your kind of people, you can make a confident choice.</p>

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<p>My son ended up at the school he did the overnight at, but the overnight part was not that great. In his case, it was during the week and not much was happening on campus and his host was studying. My son did not party and didn’t mind a slightly dull visit, but I think a similar situation would have turned off his brothers. What worked was that the overnight was part of an admitted students event, and he met some nice kids that were also considering the school. I wondered why the event was during the week, but maybe it was to avoid the partying. </p>

<p>Seems like the admissions counselors need to do a much better job of vetting the hosts and making sure the drinking is limited when a HS student is present. Many kids come with their parents, and it may not make the parent happy to see their child hungover.</p>

<p>That being said, I agree with the others that reputation of the school and the level of the frat scene is probably a better indicator of party atmosphere than a group of students. There are kids that party on every campus.</p>

<p>I guess it is hard to raise concerns about the visit without “telling” on the host. Good luck in her decisions!</p>

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<p>Yes, we are struggling with the “telling” issue . . . she thinks the admin counselor (who has been very good - attentive) will ask her about it, and we agree she deserves to know. We’ve rehearsed how to send the message WITHOUT ratting on anyone (note: host did not drink while D was there but did talk about “getting wasted” the night before).</p>

<p>Interestingly, my D reminded me that at the first (day only) visit, we talked to a mom whose D had spent the night and had the same experience . . .</p>