The Uber-High GREs: 1580, 1590, 1600

<p>hey folks, i'm a newbie/lurker. just wondering here.</p>

<p>i'm a health professional planning on doing my PhD next year. the field i'm in, i expect admission won't be a huge challenge since there are very few people in my area going after the PhD after their professional degree.</p>

<p>as part of my application, the general test GRE is required. my question is, for someone for whom gaining admission isn't really going to be a "major" challenge (i.e. they would likely be offerred admission virtually irregardless of their GRE score), what benefit, if any, would arise if that person were to produce an outstanding GRE result? would they likely get more funding? are scholarships often determined by a GRE result? if a high score doesn't lead to more funding - then does that mean taking the test is simply just another piece of red-tape that one has to pass through before starting their graduate studies?</p>

<p>thanks in advance.</p>

<p>University wide fellowships are often "numbers based", i.e. on GPA & GRE. Departmental funds may or may not be distributed competitively as well. </p>

<p>My impression generally is that a high GRE is always helpful, but even a relatively low score is not necessarily the killer that a low SAT can be for undergrad. Your preparation, writing sample, SOP, and recs all seem to be more important than the GRE in terms of admission. </p>

<p>The real way to evaluate the issue is to contact the programs you'll be applying to and ask about their admissions criteria (assuming their websites don't already provide that information). </p>

<p>All that said, this is the first I've heard of a field where admission to the PhD is not "a huge challenge". I'm in Classics where there are also very few people getting PhDs but the competition is quite intense. Even for mid level programs the admit rates are 20% or less, top programs less than half that. What field are you going into?</p>

<p>^^i am also curious, as the programs in my field take approx. 5% of applicants!</p>

<p>umm....</p>

<p>when i say admission won't be a huge challenge - let me put it to u using an example.</p>

<p>dental school is 4 years of study AFTER an undergrad. so someone who does dents will have done an average of 8 years of univ. study. they're out, ready to make good money, and may have debts to pay. further, the type of person who would be interested in dental school is likely very pragmatic (i.e. not into research, is more of a clinician - can we agree on this?). </p>

<p>now, imagine dental GRADUATE school - i.e. MS, PhD in dental medicine. would u not agree that the numbers of DENTISTS applying to their PhD programs probably isn't that many? after all, they'd be turning down a good job with good pay, to do something that might not be their primary interest (research), for less money, and for FIVE more years. many such programs are filled with students who did psychology, engineering etc. in their undergrad, only to pursue a PhD in some aspect of dental sciences. in this event, i think u can imagine a scenario where it is possible that dental school graduate programs are trying to ENCOURAGE dentists to apply, since there are so few dentist-PhDs occurring. as such, if u have the DDS, then admission into dental grad school probably isn't "that big" a challenge, since no other DDS's are applying and you possess the most fitting degree to do such a program to begin with. </p>

<p>i have a health professional degree. it isn't dentistry, but it's equivalent. and this is the situation i'm in. i've contacted several schools with a simple question regarding applications, and they've ALL replied saying they are encouraging applications from people with my graduate health degree. all these schools know its in their best interest to educate the next generation of DDS/PHD faculty, i think that's pretty obvious...</p>

<p>i'm not saying grad school admission is easy, but in certain instances, its the schools that are soliciting applicants.</p>

<p>This is quite a good question, and no one has really answered it yet. I'm curious, too. When does the point of diminishing returns set in for GRE scores?</p>

<p>ericmeng - Always keeping in mind that the GRE is nowhere near as important to grad admission as the SAT is to undergrad...</p>

<p>It depends on your field. On the handout they send back with your official scores, there's a list of very wide academic fields (7 or 8 I think) that gives the average scores in those areas. From what I've read, anything below the average in your field would be a red-flag if your other materials (GPA, writing sample, etc) don't tell a better story.</p>

<p>Let me give you my scores & the University of Minnesota as an example: 710V 700Q, 5.5AW</p>

<p>Now, the 710V is, I think 96% percential overall this year. However, at the UofM, 38% of the applicants to Classics program were in the 700-799 range.</p>

<p>My Quant score 700, is quite low overall (those darn physics majors) but only 13% of my fellow classicists reached that score.</p>

<p>My 5.5 AW - another 38% of Classics applicants at the UofM matched me.</p>

<p>So while I have good scores, for Classics I'm really only "above average". Depending on where I end up, they're boderline for University wide fellowship competition. Fortunately, I have a decent but not spectacular GPA (3.68 right now) and a very good research project that will finish up this semester.</p>

<p>So...the answer to your question is (probably): be concerned if you're at or below the average for your field at the schools to which you are applying.</p>

<p>The numbers for all fields at the UofM are here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.grad.umn.edu/data/stats/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.grad.umn.edu/data/stats/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Thanks WC. But that still doesn't <really> answer my main question. :)</really></p>

<p>How much would being at the 1st percentile versus the 10th, at your school, at your program, matter? That's the crux of the dilemma for someone good at test-taking who is studying for the GRE.</p>

<p>Eric,</p>

<p>I think it depends on the program and its applicant pool. Unfortunately, the GRE isn't viewed equally by all programs...even in the same field! You do start to get somewhat dimished returns in the 99th percentile in verbal (which is...oh...like from 500 and up). But since the percentiles on quant are so low, nothing less than 800 is even CLOSE to seeing diminished returns. </p>

<p>Obviously, however, try to score your highest. High scores on the GRE sometimes equal extra money.</p>

<p>You said the magic five-letter word. :) I can feel my 求物欲 kicking in...</p>

<p>Probably not a healthy psychological drive for an aspiring graduate student. :p</p>

<p>As far as the subject GRE goes, in biology at least, diminishing returns set in at the 90th percentile. Even the most selective schools won't care whether you got 90th or 98th percentile.</p>

<p>I agree with UCLAri's assessment that for the general GRE, 99th percentile = 99th percentile in verbal. I would assume that anything above a 770 or 780 basically equals an 800 in math, though -- I mean, even top engineering and hard science PhD programs don't have average Q scores of 800.</p>

<p>on the issue of 99th = 99th. </p>

<p>we all know that 800 on math is "easy" to get. </p>

<p>so suppose a student with an 800Q comes in with a 740 V (99). will another student with an 800 V be treated differently?</p>

<p>would an adcom view the 1540 as "good", but the 1600 as signifying possible "genius"?</p>

<p>ive been told that as long as you are over the cutoff, there is no difference between a say a 1400 and a 1450.</p>

<p>
[quote]

would an adcom view the 1540 as "good", but the 1600 as signifying possible "genius"?

[/quote]

No. Grad school admissions committee members are emphatically not making admissions decisions based on the minor point difference between superb GRE scores.</p>

<p>Grad school, after all, is quite a bit different from the GRE, and the skill sets required for success on the GRE and success in grad school do not overlap to a terribly great extent. Admissions committee members will be far more interested in your research experience/writing sample/what have you than in whether you got a 1540 total score or a 1600.</p>