The University of California Changed Its Math Standards. Some Faculty Aren’t Happy (Chronicle of Higher Ed)

https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-university-of-california-changed-its-math-standards-some-faculty-arent-happy?cid=gen_sign_in

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I’ve looked at the major requirements at a few colleges (none are UC though) for a Data Science major and what’s ironic about the proposal that’s discussed in the article is that every one of the colleges where I’ve looked this up, a Data Science major requires calculus. Often a year of it. Sometimes even Linear Algebra, too.

I agree with these professors. They have a very valid point.

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Oh my, what would cause them to make such a change? :thinking:

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Seems like it just means that students taking the off ramp from the main math sequence into the terminal high school statistics courses can do so before algebra 2 instead of after algebra 2.

But would any students potentially interested in a major that requires calculus take choose such a math off ramp to begin with? Seems like the main clientele of these new courses are either non 4-year-college bound students or 4-year-college bound students who are afraid of math and will choose a major with as little math as possible (and a college whose math GE requirement is fulfilled by AP statistics or a similar college course).

Of course, this is irrelevant to many on these forums, where it is often assumed that reaching calculus in 12th grade is “behind” in math and uncompetitive for admission to more selective colleges including UCs.

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The biggest problem seems to be that the course title is misleading. This is not Data Science but rather akin to what was called Consumer Math back when I was in high school. Consumer Math was a fine class taught by a good teacher; it taught useful skills. But everybody knew it was not a class for anybody considering any sort of career in any way associated with math or science.

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Depends upon whether the goal is to get students to graduate from high school or to prepare for university. Different objectives.

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I think that this is very sad.

We do not help students by just not expecting them to learn anything that is hard. The University of California system has for a long time been considered one of the top public university systems in the world. We do not need to dumb this down.

I have worked my entire career in high tech. I am mostly retired but still do some work as a consultant. The vast majority of the people that I work with, at a US based high tech company, were not born in the US and did not attend high school in the US. I have to wonder if there is a connection here.

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Just because non-American workers are good at this stuff doesn’t mean American born workers are bad. You have selection bias of who you see amongst foreign born workers – because you are allowing only people with strong educations and skills. On CC we see a lot of American born kids show strong scores in STEM subjects, applying for STEM majors etc. Do we have data to show that local kids are less technically inclined now than they were 20-30 years ago?

I am also feeling ambivalent about this change as long as they don’t make changes to what is available to strong kids at different grade levels in high school and middle school.

If kids were never going to take Calc or Algebra 2 anyway, I am happy for them to take Stat. It’s not the end of the world. As long as the UC system doesn’t dilute standards and take in all these kids into majors that they previously didn’t take them into. If they dilute standards, it will affect employers perceptions of a UC degree, and less of those kids will be hired.

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Maybe I’m dense, but I’m not sure why this is an issue? Can’t high schools counselors be advised to tell kids that the new class isn’t going to get them into a STEM major, so they’ll need to be sure they don’t want to major in STEM if they step off the traditional math sequence?

I live in a state where politicians are eagerly deriding whole subject areas as “unnecessary” for kids not destined for college, and I’m firmly against narrowing curricula on that basis. But as long as this particular class is additive and isn’t replacing Alegebra/Pre-Calc/Calc, I don’t really see the issue.

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The issue is just the opposite. By enabling a kid to skip Alg II, they are admitting undergrads who are already precluded from a huge proportion of the undergrad courses by a UC campus. Is that really helping those students? What about those kids ‘who hate math’ in HS but then finally get it in college Calc when they get better teachers?

Our public high school had a counselor to student ratio of 700:1. No way they have time for individual counseling.

It’s eliminating Pre-Calc and Calc from being taken by nearly all.

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You are not going to remedy your math education at a UC. It is not remedial school. California education system is going down the drain anyway. Luckily I don’t live there. I am only saying that if they don’t subtract anything from the current menu, I could live with it (actually I am not living with it :slight_smile: ).

I can tell you one thing though, if standards are reduced and they subtract choices, people will gradually leave the state. A lot of those tech people that California is depending on for taxes take the education of their kids very very seriously.

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There are many majors that require calculus, one big one is business. What happens if a kid decides they want to major in business, and whoops… I never took anything beyond geometry. Now they have to start over in algebra 2… is that even offered? I think this is a bad idea. Kids were already taking math theory or stats to get out of calculus at my high school, but having the off-ramp earlier seems unwise.

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what is math theory?

I honestly don’t even know what is taught in math theory as my kids haven’t taken it. I envision it as kind of a math for the humanities class. At the high school I teach at, kids have the option of precalc, calc AB, Calc BC, statistics, or math theory as seniors. They’ve all taken algebra 2 as sophomores or juniors though. We also have a four year algebra track for students needing remediation, but then they would not be eligible for UCs.

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Actually @neela1 UCs ALL remediate… even the biggies like Cal, UCLA, etc. My DS’ STEM mentor was a PhD candidate (now a professor) at UCLA. Part of her duties included getting kids ‘up to par’ when they enter UCLA. Of the 15k freshmen who enter UCLA every year, about 3-5k don’t have the skills or the prereqs to take freshman classes. So, UCLA mandates that she tutor about 300 kids a quarter helping them to pass their remedial classes to begin their actual UCLA coursework. Of those kids, only about 40% are able to pass their remedial courses and being their degree work. The others drop out, with nothing to show for being at a UC. This is happening all over the UC system, which is how MANY kids transfer in from community colleges. It’s a well-known ‘back door’ to get into a UC. So, if anyone is reading this who did not get into a UC on their first try, definitely think about the transfer route.

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I’m not understanding your numbers? UCLAs last freshmen cohort was 6,400 students. There’s no way 3-5,000 of them lacked basic skills.

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Some counselors may not understand this consequence. Many HS students do not have access to a dedicated guidance counselor to help with course selection and/or college planning (many counselors are also social/emotional counselors which is the priority). And as noted above, the counselor:student ratio is ridiculously high at some HSs.

Many business type majors at schools with direct admit to a major (like the UCs) will not be possible for these students (at least as incoming first years).

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Currently, the students who hated math in high school probably did not learn algebra 2 that well and probably opted out of precalculus in high school, so they may not be ready for more math other than the bare minimum (typically introductory statistics or AP statistics).

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So I picked a random UC campus. In this case, UC Irvine. Here’s their major requirements for their BS in Data Science → Data Science, B.S. < University of California Irvine

And here’s all of the lower division math required for that:

However, if you’re going to be an english major, will you need to take 1-2 yr of college calculus? Probably not.

I don’t think that reducing the math requirements for admission to a UC school is a good idea.

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I was that kid who hated math and was bad at it. I dropped Algebra 2 after the 1st semester senior year. I ended up at a T3 law school. I worked for elite NYC firms. I did not miss having taken more math in high school!!

Why force kids who aren’t remotely interested in careers using higher math to take something they will never use!

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