And social sciences like Econ
1 Like
Since (remedial) Alg II is not offered by UC, the student woudl have a big gap, or have to take an equivalent course at a community college to catch up.
I think if UCs admitted by major, maybe it could be justified. So if a kid wants to major in ethnic studies, does he/she need algebra 2? I think unless UC system were to lock in kids into those majors, algebra 2 requirement should stay. I love the flexibility of the system that allows students to switch majors as they develop their interests so I am not arguing against it, just staying that if we had a more European style system with targeted admissions, then maybe the changes would make sense.
Looks like the State BoE has reconsidered its recommendation that Data Science is just as good as Alg II. Interestingly, even the Cal State system has argued for keeping Alg II as an admission requirement. But the UC still has to decide.
It’s a lot more than that. Practical data science combines statistics and computer science, so you’d need at least a semester of statistics before you could take a data science class. In order to understand how the data is manipulated, you should also have a semester of calculus and a semester of linear algebra. Then you need to know how to program in order to retrieve, filter and manipulate data. On top of that, you should be an expert in the subject matter that you’re applying data science to so you have the contextual knowledge to interpret results.
I live in California. Trying to make sense of the new math standards was frustrating. It wasn’t just pedagogy - it was also politics. There was a lot of talk about “equity” in the teaching of math, which to me meant that the way to treat students equally was to drag them down to the level of the lowest students. Many of the complaints about the new standards came from people who were complaining that good math students would be prevented from taking advanced classes. It reminded me of the old talk about Communism, where people joked that the way to make everyone equal was to make everyone poor.
6 Likes
Have these folks given up on helping disadvantaged students catch up and acquire a strong foundational knowledge in math?
2 Likes
That’s why some have argued that the course would be more appropriately called a course on “data literacy”. It probably introduces some data concepts without actually giving students the necessary means to properly interpret, scrub, or manipulate the data, because it would require math and other skills.
1 Like
I’ve not seen much of an attempt to help disadvantaged students catch up. I guess it’s easier to achieve equity by holding good or advantaged students back.
2 Likes
Practical effects of this proposal are probably neither.
Mainly, it seems like it just would allow taking the terminal statistics off ramp from the mainline math sequence a year earlier. Probably only the most math-phobic of college bound students (who would avoid any major that needs precalculus or calculus) would opt for it in place of continuing on to algebra 2 and precalculus.
not sure they were trying to hold anyone back, but rather just trying to continue to lower the bar for admissions to some of the top research Universities in the world. (The SAT was considered a barrier to certain groups so it was tossed, and now the next biggest barrier was seen as Alg II, so the easy answer is to replace it with a math lite course.)
3 Likes
The ones that I have seen were that about half of high schools offer calculus, but more like ~80% of high school students are in a high school that offers calculus. Presumably, the non offering schools are heavily biased to smaller schools with low performing in math students (e.g. reform or continuation schools, juvenile hall schools).
Being in a high school with calculus offered does vary somewhat by SES, rural / suburban / urban, and race / ethnicity, but it is likely that, within a school, math placement in primary or middle school is the determining factor in access to calculus, and may be affected by biases in these areas.
1 Like
Right. It seems that the course title “Data Science” may be inaccurate for the level of content that would be appropriate for the students who were intended to take the course. But, sure sounds good, a feel-good marketing ploy of sorts.
1 Like
I don’t know about that. The UCs have said they will not allow high school data science courses, or what some might call “math-lite classes” to be used to fulfill admission requirements.
I do think that if you’re trying to create a well-educated citizenry, statistics is more valuable than calculus. There are so many media stories about the latest statistical studies, and public policies based on statistical studies, that people need the knowledge to be able to separate the valid studies from the invalid studies. The great majority of people can’t do that, and I’m not sure a traditional intro statistics class can teach that. Perhaps cut out some of the technical details that are taught in those traditional classes, e.g., chi-square tests, and replace them with some basic information that differentiate good vs. bad statistical studies.
1 Like
I don’t see this as an either/or question. My first stats course was calc-based, so I admit I have always had difficulty imagining how some things are taught in non-calc-based stats. As for the citizenry interpreting statistical studies, I’m afraid there’s so much more involved than a high school stats course.
(A side comment: top students heading into social science and humanities majors may open up more opportunities for themselves with actual data science in college, though that would involve math and programming, as you mention above. I think it would be a great choice for a minor, if only for context and exposure purposes.)
Yeah, that’s why I said a traditional stats class can’t teach that.
I took three stats classes as an undergrad - elementary statistics, scientific sampling, and experimental analysis and design. None were calculus-based. Then I took a stats class in grad school, although it was basically a repeat of elementary statistics. Somehow you would need to combine the simpler elements from all three into a basic high school statistical analysis class. I suppose some people would want to call that “data science”, although I wouldn’t. I do think you can teach the basic concepts without calculus.
I had totally forgotten that I took a probability and statistics class in high school, but most of the examples I remember were about gambling in Las Vegas. It was the only practical math class I ever took in high school. Everything else was doing proofs, which I hated and turned me off to math.
2 Likes
No, they have not. Yet.
btw: I’m a big fan of AP Stats – Alg II recommended as a pre-req – and believe it valuable for an educated citizenry (and should be required in J-schools). But that is not even the issue being discussed.
1 Like
The stared goal of increasing the STEM pipeline was just incongruent with the proposal. I have zero issue with the UCs dropping Algebra 2 if they see it as a barrier to students who are not interested in STEM careers, but would otherwise thrive on their campuses. Do I think it’s risky to allow a teen to make that decision - sure, but at least understand the desire. But to pretend you’re helping prepare a student for careers that are now fully inaccessible was just wrong.
I think data science is an incredibly interesting important field and actively encouraged my son to pursue it (he chose engineering instead) so am very familiar with the math requirements. Call this course consumer math, exploratory math - whatever and make it clear you’re getting OFF a stem or even analytical ss path.
I’m curious how many schools offer a 2 year Algebra II offering. I’d see that as much likely to help kids coming from under resourced schools and helping kids catch up from a poor elementary/middle school preparation and allow them to access STEM careers.
2 Likes
AP Stats did a very good job at that.
1 Like
They made the decision on Tuesday.
Not according to the New York Times, in the article I posted earlier.
“A U.C. faculty committee — which controls admission requirements for the state’s entire public university system — announced on Wednesday that it will re-examine what high school courses, including data science, meet the standards for “advanced math.””