The very first post!

<p>I feel so special. Have any of you that have taken the LSAT have any advice?</p>

<p>I've taken the LSAT and I'm in law school - so I'm full of advice. Any way you could narrow that down? ;)</p>

<p>:-) Thanks ariesathena! When did you get started on LSAT prep? What advice do you have to prepare for the LSAT as well as LSAT testing tips? I'm interested in applying to HYC, Duke, UNC, Wake Forest law schools. Is the weight of the LSAT score like 80% of your chances at those schools? Thanks again!</p>

<p>I started prepping late for the SAT, but in the end I did well. (I'm a HS senior.) I don't want to wait 'till the last minute for the LSAT. That being said, how can you develop the skills tested by the LSAT, besides reading a lot? (I'm not talking about formal LSAT prep--i.e., buying an LSAT book, taking a class--but just, again, developing those skills tested by the LSAT--logic, etc.) Thanks...</p>

<p>Em:</p>

<p>I started LSAT prep in February for the June test. I did not study at all for the SAT and took it once.</p>

<p>In case you don't know, you should only take the LSAT ONCE. Mostly, if you take it more than once (and you're limited to three times in two years, which looks pretty bad if you need that), they will average your scores. You'll also need a good explanation.</p>

<p>The best prep is taking the exams... and then going over each individual question, one at a time. The strategy that worked well for me was to work my way through each section, untimed, then go through and check my answers. (10 formerly administered LSATs are available from LSAC for about $29.) Then, I would figure out what the question was asking - as that is really the key to two of the three sections (two sections are identical, and there is an experimental, for a total of five when you take the actual LSAT). As you get more used to the format of the test and the questions, work on building up speed. Get the accuracy first, then the speed. I finished the SATs without a problem but found the LSATs to be more challenging in terms of time constraints. </p>

<p>It is important to realize how the LSAT is scored. The median is a 151; the 74th percentile is somewhere around 158. The 99th percentile is 170, and it goes up to 180. Usually, getting about 90 of the 101 questions will get you a 170ish - and that's an amazing score. </p>

<p>I'm guessing that you're at Wake undergrad now (Winston-Salem), so I'll throw in more advice. Law school is hard to get into - and I don't mean to patronize. Last year, 38% of applicants didn't get in anywhere. About 150,000 people took the LSAT, and only 56,000 matriculate in the fall (obviously, some people do so badly on the LSAT that they don't apply - even fourth tier law schools won't take people who score below a 150 or so). That all said, unless you have a 3.6 and get about a 167+ on the LSAT... think of safety schools. I went through a grueling law school admissions process last year and understand how difficult it is to get in. I'm at a top-tier school, but I was waitlisted, had a 98th percentile LSAT, went to an excellent undergrad school, did engineering there, graduated around the middle of my engin. class, and have a solid resume. I applied to 14 schools and was admitted to two of them, waitlisted at six. My GPA was decent for engineering but low compared to liberal arts - my one problem. Anyway - do not make up your law school list the same way that you made up undergrad. </p>

<p>Again - not trying to patronize or belittle or anything - but there are a lot of kids on this board who are like "Harvard Law!" or whatever - and they just don't understand that most people there are Fulbright scholars, H or Y grads, or, well, Rhodes scholars. Law school admissions is like undergrad on steriods. You understand all too well after going through it... as someone said, law school admissions makes undergrad look like a cakewalk. It's true.</p>

<p>The LSAT compromises part of your admissions package - but what part varies widely for each school. Northwestern, for example, places a lot of emphasis on LSAT and strength of undergrad school and major, and much less on actual GPA; Georgetown is almost exclusively GPA focused. Very similarly ranked schools, very different approaches - which is some of what makes law school admissions wonderfully (ha, ha) erratic.</p>

<p>Anyway... to be a bit more constructive, look at safeties in the region that you would like to practice. Take a practice LSAT (I think you can go to lsac.org and download a free one) to get a rough idea of where you stand. Don't time yourself (unless you go madly over), pace yourself, and don't look at answers until you are done. Take that score, add about 5 points for studying hard before actually taking it, and that is roughly where you will fall on test day. Use that and your GPA to figure out good schools to apply to - USNews has the median LSATs and GPAs of each school. </p>

<p>Gastby: Ah - where to start. First of all, the LSAT isn't something to spend years prepping for. ;) It's hard, but it's not something that will dominate your life. If you are really focused, however, on developing the skills it tests, then read a lot (I know, cliche) and take philosophy classes. </p>

<p>General LSAT structure:
*2 critical reading sections, with about 25-30 questions. Each question has a short paragraph, which is followed by a question asking "What can you properly conclude from this?" "What is the author's opinion?" "Which of the following may be true (or false)?" "Which of the following must be true?" That type thing.<br>
*One reading comprehension section (about 25 questions). There are about four essays (450 words each), followed by a handful of questions relating to it. Reading a lot will help you with this section.
*Logic games. Philosophy or logic (which would be good for law school anyway) might help.
*Writing section. Completely unimportant unless you leave it blank. Do one practice one before test day - but it's not scored and probably is not looked at during admissions.</p>

<p>More random LSAT info: it is offered four times per year: June, October, December, and February. June is given at 12:30, while the others are at 8:30 am. The test itself runs for 35 min per section, plus 30 min for the writing sample. Now, don't think of that as three hours - it's more like six. They check your ID at the door, fingerprint you, have very specific rituals for handing out and returning exams, all that - so it will take the better part of a day. Schedule accordingly (if you hate working past 5 pm, take a morning one - and non-morning people should take it in June). </p>

<p>Now, law admissions are rolling, and most applications are accepted either 01 Sept. or 01 Oct. Get the app in as soon as you can - which means taking the June LSAT or the February LSAT from the year prior. The October LSAT is fine if you have a really, really good idea how you will score and basically have applications ready to go once you get your score (which takes 21 days). December LSAT - if you have the flu on test day, had a roof collapse on you, and feel the need to retake.</p>

<p>That's it for now.</p>

<p>Wow, ariesathena. Thanks a mil! I am an undergrad at Wake (freshman) and I'm worried, nay, mostly sure my GPA will not be up to par with other schools that inflate grades. Thanks again for the informative post! I've already gotten started in acquiring the test prep materials from other boards and online. By the way, I prefer "ndb" as opposed to "em." :-)</p>

<p>Here is Joe's advice on law school, you can make lots of cash but be prepared to spend your arse off in student loans.</p>

<p>I am an attorney practicing appellate law. It has been a long time since I took the LSAT to be of any help in that regard, but I am happy to answer any questions on the practice of law, and my own experience as a law student.</p>

<p>Thanks concerneddad! I do have one question about what fields of law there are. I know there's tax/corporate, criminal, and environmental. What other fields are there? People always ask me what I plan to specialize in. I'm not too sure :-).</p>

<p>As a 1L, I can answer that question a bit... (and, of course, you'll get a lot of advice you didn't ask for!). </p>

<p>There is corporate/tax, criminal, environmental as you mentioned. There is also patent (which I may go into), sports and entertainment, intellectual property/copyright (patent is a subset of this), mental health, family, international, probably some form of civil liberties (like ACLU), wills and estates, health, bioethics, space, maritime, admirality, insurance, labour and employment, public interest, immigration, real estate, personal injury, to name a few. (Getting the idea that almost anything has a legal issue surrounding it that someone can make a career from?)</p>

<p>For the extraneous advice: most of my fellow students don't know what they want to do! Often, during the first year summer, students will get some exposure to different practice areas. That happens even more during the second summer. Some people do try to incorporate their undergrad degrees - but the most popular undergrad major of a law student is poli sci, which doesn't lend itself well to specializing. </p>

<p>My understanding is that, while some people have a fairly clear idea of what they want to do, many students have a general idea of what they want to do, and kind of fall into their specialized area. He might be a young associate at a firm when a partner drops an assignment on his lap, and all of a sudden he becomes the resident expert on a part of the securities code. </p>

<p>That all said - if law school is at least four years away (I highly suggest taking a year off, which will give you time to study for the LSATs, visit schools, write your personal statement, and research schools without having studying on top of it. Also, it will alleviate a lot of the stress and burnout that many law students who have gone straight encounter.), then it might be valuable for you to not get too wrapped up in finding a practice area. If you take courses that you love that don't lend themselves to any type of law - well, that happens, and that's what undergrad is for. However, if you find yourself taking classes that you love and that lend themselves well to some sort of legal field, then go for it - think maybe psych courses if you are interested in mental health law - but don't get too worried about finding a practice area. What sounds fabulous and glamourous now might turn out to be entirely horrible in reality.</p>

<p>So what to tell those well-meaning but nosy people? Either:
1) make up something that relates to the courses you're taking (Spanish major? Immigration law! Sociology? Employment! Bio? Health! English? Space law! Ole Miss has a great programme for it. Deliver the last one with a straight face.)
2) make up something really really specific, and deliver with a straight face. "I want to litigate violations section 10.2 (b) of the Securities Code." Or, "An interdisciplinary combination of aviation and international space law. Ole Miss has great courses in it. As space law and aviation begin to overlap, I can see this being a growing field." Practice the straight face a few times.
3) the truth: "I'm 18!! Once I figure out what I'm majoring in at Wake, whether I'll double major or maybe minor, oh, yeah, get my schedule for sophomore year straight, research law schools, and take the LSAT, I'll get back to you." ;)</p>

<p>The one thing that I will advise you (or anyone thinking of law school) against is going into hard sciences or engineering. Straight GPA is quite important for law school - and they make little, if any, allowances for the massive grade deflation and harder workload in those majors. Law school admissions is set up for poli sci majors, not engineers. You'll learn the meaning of "uphill battle" in so many ways should you take a grade-deflating major. </p>

<p>Sigh - I think that's it!</p>

<p>Em, I think ariesathena touched upon most of the major areas of law. I would add that in the real world the majority of jobs are in the broadly defined area of insurance law. In addition to car accident cases, you have property casualty cases (hurricanes, tornados, floods, etc), and even commercial disputes involve insurance coverage (advertising coverage)..</p>

<p>I have a question: What are the respectable law schools that someone with a solid gpa (3.5+) and a solid lsat score (165+)could get into, but like a level below harvard and yale?</p>

<p>Generally:
HYS are amazing, at the top, spectacular, have your legal career in hand when you graduate.
A notch below those are Cornell, Columbia, Chicago, Northwestern, Georgetown, UVA, NYU, Penn, UC Berkeley (Boalt), UMich, and Duke (no particular order). Depending on your school, major, essay, all that - these would be a match/reach for you.<br>
A notch below those are the rest of the top 25 or so. Apply to those based on the region in which you want to practice. </p>

<p>ConcernedDad: my torts prof wasn't kidding when he said that torts and insurance were quite well integrated! ;) Seriously though - from what little I know from two months of law school, a LOT of litigation involves insurance - as a lot of litigation depends on who has money.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the great info! By the way, I am planning on majoring in government and economics. I'll be sure to take a philosophy, english courses too!</p>

<p>If you really want an idea of the test, there are practice tests that are offered for free at several schools. I went in and took the LSAT just to see what it was like (I'm still 3 years out of Law School) and just to get a very general idea of what I am in for. I scored an even 151, which appearently is not bad considering I had no clue what was on the test. While it will take up a full day for you to take, I think it is worth it, since now I do have an idea of what I need to study when I begin preping for the exam.</p>

<p>It was interesting, I found the test questions to be much easier then i thought they would be. What ended up killing my score is the fact that I was not able to finsh any of the sections, so I really need to work on the timing when the time comes.</p>

<p>Ariesathena, if you don't mind me asking, what law school do you attend?</p>

<p>Econ: A month ago, I would have said - but seeing how many people lurk here has made me a bit more protective of personal information. I will say that it's a top 30 school in the mid-Atlantic states. (I know, I know... but what, 600 people have read this thread? Ack!)</p>

<p>Thanks for your help ariesathena! I'm a Junior member! yes!</p>

<p>can someone explain what you do in sports and entertainment law? what are employment prospects for someone out of a T-14 school? what are the hours and the pay? i ask because I am obsessed with sports and i think im interested in law it seems to be a match.</p>