I must disagree. The ‘correct’ info is buried in mountains of advice from all over the internet, and probably varies from school to school. I don’t think ‘regular’ kids with no expert adult input are likely to hit the right balance of ‘intellect’ and ‘texture’ and everything else in the essay that uber selective schools are looking for. I’m not saying it isn’t humanly possible, but geez they are grading the essays according to very specific things that some people obviously are privy to, and I don’t believe a library book is going to cut it for students who don’t reside in that special world. Evidently some private school or feeder school counselors have the inside track with admissions at certain schools, as I’m sure expensive college consultants do. I realize of course that it is what it is and is nothing new.
There is room at every single “selective” college for the diamond in the rough kid who writes an essay which hits it out of the ballpark despite not adhering to any of the “rules”. There is room at every single “selective” college for a kid with an authentic voice, even coming out of a HS where the GC’s are too busy arranging emergency housing for kids who are homeless or finding a social worker who can identify a placement for a kid who got kicked out of an abusive home.
Not every kid at Harvard or Yale had a guidance counselor who “knew the ropes”. I would not overthink some of the advice being given on this thread. Much of it applies if you are an affluent kid who lives in Winnetka or Chappaque or Atherton where the presumption is that you got some guidance and advice along the way. But I’ve met some of the stellar kids at the top colleges who come from large, sub-par public schools in both rural and urban areas and a different lens is used (apparently) for their applications. Their parents couldn’t help them, their teachers were well-meaning but not savvy, and the guidance counselors are too busy with critical cases and emergencies to edit essays for a kid who is going to go far in life- whether she ends up at Harvard or Baruch.
CC loves these black and white situations. But if you are a high performing kid at a public HS in Camden NJ nobody is expecting the same type of packaging that a kid up the highway at a top suburban HS is getting.
Be authentic and don’t let a high priced college counselor write your essay. That doesn’t seem to be too “insider” to me. Don’t let the high priced college counselor convince you to apply as an anthropology major because anthropology majors get admitted at a higher rate than history majors if you really want to study history.
And don’t let random people on the internet convince you that applying undecided- to a college which does not expect you to commit to a major at the age of 17-- is a mistake.
“…buried in mountains of advice from all over the internet…” Well, you don’t hop all over the internet, reading random thoughts. You start with what the college itself offers, not any one individual. Yes, it’s work. And we aren’t really talking of ‘regular’ kids. These are kids who feel qualified for the most selective colleges in the country.
@blossom I agree completely. Sadly I think many of those situations you described are outliers, but there really is no way to know except to maybe examine which high schools commonly feed certain select schools and which never see kids go to them. I get it, it’s just part of life in modern America (probably better than it used to be I realize!), I’m just commenting.
@lookingforward Okay, I wasn’t literally talking about mountains of advice. Of course you start with the college itself. I was talking about general essay prompts that are then graded for very specific items, which the ‘average’ or ‘regular’ or whatever student wouldn’t know about (and by regular I mean not plugged into a highly privileged situation, I don’t mean average stats). It’s fine, if everyone thinks it is a level playing field, okay. I’m just pointing out some things that struck me about the comments from Michael on this thread about the specific things they would grade essays on. It is what is it, I get it.
We can agree to disagree.
From everything I have read and learned, AOs get that highly resourced kids get packaged, and they can see when an application is all wrapping paper.
On the flip side, they can see when an application wrapped in construction paper contains a gem.
Yup, there are kids who get great advice handed to them. Would it be more fair if that advice were available to everyone? No argument there.
I take it at face value, though, that the very human AOs see the flaws in the system and really do root for authentic kids with compelling stories and talent - no matter the income or background.
The bigger issue is that there are too few spots, and too many great candidates. It may be unreasonable to expect a kid without knowledge or resources to submit a perfectly polished essay. But boy it must be eye-popping when a less-resourced kid nails it. A little research can pay huge dividends, and given that the application is for an institution for higher learning, I don’t think it is a surprise that AOs would reward those who did that research, despite starting at a disadvantage.
Also, I bristle at the assumption that the ticket to success is an elite college. All of those rejected talented kids go to college somewhere. the caliber of college experience is high wherever there is a critical mass of talented students. I would rather spend the psychic and economic effort making public high schools stronger than worrying about what elite colleges are doing. Why not make the gap between elite and not elite less relevant so then the silliness about perfecting an essay is equally irrelevant? The fairness of the college application process is a straw man, distracting from the real problem.
@CateCAParent I hope you’re right! It would be nice if AOs were able to make those distinctions, and I truly hope they are successful at it as much as is possible.
I completely agree with you about elite colleges. I personally can’t deal with pretentious people, and I’m sure plenty of people there aren’t, but sometimes these forums really give one an impression! My kids so far are at big flagship public universities (which have the ‘rah rah’ factor as my friend likes to say) and they’re happy as clams. My current senior is applying to a variety of selective schools and it’s been interesting delving into some of these forums. I’m sure she’ll have plenty of great options and will have an amazing experience wherever she goes. I for one have not bought into the idea that elite privates are the pinnacle of success, but it’s interesting to see some of the chatter.
Cate- wonderful post and I agree wholeheartedly.
The most off the charts, wonderful, special kid I ever interviewed for Brown was NOTHING like what you read about on CC. First Gen, rural, poor, flyover country-- and heading to community college to become a pharm tech or similar until one of those brochures that everyone on CC loves to hate showed up at his house.
My typical MO when interviewing was to do what I was told to do- interview, write up, submit by the deadline. But I hounded the regional adcom until I was told “stop calling- everyone who has ever met this kid has seen what you’ve seen”.
And sure- becoming an allied health professional out of CC is a noble outcome. But for a wicked smart kid who could end up an MD? That’s a good outcome also, and not something that would have happened had he stayed home. So I’ve seen first hand- in my own, tiny, limited way- that Adcom’s recognize the real deal when they see it. And for every kid who is agonizing over “which is more prestigious- debate club or chess club” there’s a kid out there JUST as smart and JUST as talented who has no EC’s because he’s working close to full time hours after HS to help support his family.
Yes, we need more focus on low performing schools who churn out HS graduates who read at a 6th grade level. Whether a kid goes to Harvard or U Mass, or CMU or Penn State is really not worth the amount of ink we spill on CC.
But in my work life I’ve interviewed kids with stories like J.D. Vance (Hillbilly Elegy) coming from the Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Amhersts of the world-- so I know there are at least a bunch of Adcom’s who see it as a mission to salt the preppies and the kids from the “Best 100 high schools in America” with kids who haven’t had these advantages.
And I’ll bet those kids don’t know that they need to declare a major- and although too few of them get in, the ones that do sure aren’t getting a consultant to review their essay.
If the idea that college app essays should be intellectual and “connect to an academic idea you care about”, per @MichaelCShort, feels like insider knowledge, it is because we have collectively forgotten what the core function of colleges is – to educate and to pursue and advance human knowledge.
I don’t blame us for forgetting though. College sports is a multi-billion dollar business and sports recruitment and scholarships are something that even the likes of Stanford pursue, so yea, we get confused.
What Cate and Blossom said.
And no matter what, there are only so many seats and sooo many great educational opportunities out there. You don’t need to join the lemmings rush. But if you insist, expect to be subject to high expectations.
@bestmom888 I hear what you’re saying. My point was about vague essay prompts that are then graded according to specific attributes that aren’t necessarily mentioned by the college. I mean, focusing on essays isn’t really focusing on academics anyway. Remember back in the day when they looked at your grades/transcript and that represented academics? Such a simpler time. Like I’ve said in other comments, it is what it is and obviously a lot of people disagree with my thoughts on this, so I’ll stop beating a dead horse.
@lookingforward Yep, no interest in joining the lemmings rush, as you call it. Ciao
I find it a little ironic that users and contributors here “complain” about college applicants needing inside information to get a leg up when applying to competitive colleges, when one of the major draws to college confidential is these same individuals are searching for information to help them in college admissions…
I appreciate members like MCS who are freely giving his time and advice here on CC to share his insights into the process.
My last point is that of course college students that don’t attend the most competitive colleges in the U.S. can and will be successful (its up to them) but it misses the point that for the students that are looking to apply to colleges with single digit acceptance rates and most competitive majors, having some insight into the adcoms thought process (i.e. knowing how the game is played) can help make the application standout. At the end of the day its a competition and applicants need to know how to compete…
Sorry if I came off as a complainer, I was just expressing my thoughts. Best of luck to you and yours in this process. (see how people can be nice even while disagreeing?)
Socal- I think the most helpful threads on CC are the ones where a parent posts “I went to university in Europe and my kid is interested in Bryn Mawr- what can you tell me about it” or “my husband and I are both computer scientists and our son wants to study music performance-- help!”
I don’t see those folks as coming here for “inside information” as you put it- they are coming for information period- things you don’t find on the college’s website. And there are lots of situations where parents don’t understand the difference between a for-profit institution and a not-for-profit and why the distinction can be important, or a parent doesn’t understand that being captain of your HS’s tennis team doesn’t mean the kid is getting a tennis scholarship to Dartmouth.
Yes, there are the “inside dope” threads- but frankly, most of them are posted by HS kids looking for OTHER HS kids to “chance me”.
And I may be delusional- but I’m old enough to have seen lots of lots of kids get in to these mega competitive places without knowing a single one of the “inside track” type of tips. There are still kids who refuse to play the game- or don’t know about the game- or are just too busy teaching themselves Ugaritic and Sumerian to have time to ask “which is more prestigious for ancient languages- Chicago or Harvard?” And the answer is- if you’re a HS kid with a strong academic record (however it’s being measured at the time) who has self-taught to proficiency Ugaritic and Sumerian because you’ve already taught yourself Ancient Greek and Aramaic, the answer is “it doesn’t matter”. Apply to a handful of the top colleges with deep strength in antiquity, apply to two safety schools which have at least some of what you are looking for, and sleep like a baby at night. Somebody will want you!
It’s too easy to assume that every kid who gets into a top college has done so by gaming, hiring a professional, taking the SAT 6 times AND the ACT “just to see”, and playing AP roulette, I.e. only taking the tests for the subjects which allegedly have the easiest ways to get a 4 or 5. Not so.
Did the applicant end up getting in to Brown? How did they end up doing, if you’re able to share? I love that story!
Got in, I don’t know how he did but he was extraordinary (and kind).
That’s awesome! I’m glad that he had you (and others) to recognize his potential.
Yes, have to agree. Why shoot the messenger? if you don’t agree with the information than don’t use it. I think MCS has infinitely more experience than I will ever have reading apps and choosing candidates. If he said AO’S liked circus clowns, I would pause and say well that’s interesting my kid isn’t interested in the circus but that’s good to know.
His info IMO is all good and has an interesting take.
Circus clowns. Had to laugh. 
"But in my work life I’ve interviewed kids with stories like J.D. Vance (Hillbilly Elegy) “coming from the Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Amhersts of the world”
I read Hilbilly Elegy and he went to OSU undergrad because that was the only place kids in high school heard about. It was only later that he went to Yale. He’s not a kid that an ivy can point to and take credit because they, according to his book, didn’t even bother coming to Hillbilly country.
"grades/transcript and that represented academics? "
It still is by and large grades and transcript that represent academics, if you;re assuming test scores are a different factor. What’s changed is that in the good old days you may have taken only 2-3 APs, if any, and class rank was a lot more important especially being in the top 5 or 10%.
@rbc2018 Agree 100. College coaching–ideally CC–shouldn’t exist, right?
Schools should publish their rating handbooks. Full stop. That’s where legit, real college admissions talk starts and stops.
They should also videotape their AOs reading every app. from start to finish in committee. They should be on forums like this, teaching classes, being crystal clear on what they want to see. There would be no need for middleman–college coaches or sites like this–to have semi-informed opinions on advertisement. Publish the rating books.
Interesting question to ask why colleges don’t do those things? I have lots of ideas.
But yes, it’s nuts. That’s partially why people like me are doing what I’m doing. To make money yes, but also to spread good information to confused kids who get awful guidance–to the point of being misleading. Because I’ve read the rating books. I’ve trained on them, asked questions about them, applied them. And then I saw why and how many hundreds of applicants got admitted or denied by them. So I’m stunned by the authoritative advice rattled off by folks on these forums who Have Never Worked In A College Admission Office.
If you’ve never read, trained, and done the hard work of admitting students by applying specific ratings . . . You might have the right opinion on college admission topics, but you can’t have knowledge. You’ve worked with kids who got into some random draw of schools for the past 10 years? So, what, now you have something to say by speculating on essays or activities or letters or other factors that seemed to correspond with college acceptances? And you determine you know what’s going on to issue actionable advice with unqualified authority? It’s wild. It’s no surprise you see nonsense like “be yourself” “show your personality” “applying undecided is fine–thinking through what you might want to study only applies to HYPSM.” I’m shocked non-admission-office folks run the roost on these forums.
–MCS