<p>ABOUT DEPAUL - I auditioned for this earlier at the Illinois High School Theatre Festival. They seemed very interested but, I found out they accepted 47 freshmen..then they cut half. I feel as though they are wasting half of the freshmen's time.</p>
<p>actingkiddchi, I know quite a few students who auditoned for Purchase and EVERYONE knows by now if he is accepted, rejected or waitlisted, which Purchase calls being an "alternate." If you auditioned and have not heard, please call the school IMMEDIATELY.</p>
<p>We just got back from the admitted students weekend at the conservatory at DePaul. The cut program seems to be based on pretty clear factors-like not showing up to class. it is clearly not just arbitrary. The second year students we met with said primarily the kids who were cut expected it. Some kids drop out as well because the program is so intense. It is an absolutely extraordinary program and a number of the students accepted have turned down other prestigious programs to attend DePaul.</p>
<p>Travelling- Congrats on Depaul! If I remember correctly from last year, did your D. go to Drew? Why did she decide to transfer?</p>
<p>I guess I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that cuts are based on things "like not showing up for class". Attendance is required at the BFA programs with which I'm familiar. It just doesn't happen that half the class chooses not to attend their classes. If this is happening at DePaul, I think I'd want to ask some questions as to why.</p>
<p>Kids don't show up for lots of reasons, like simply oversleeping. While we don't love the cut system, the program is so amazing that the kids we spoke to, many of whom are first year waiting to find out, felt it was worth it even if they only got a year under their belt. Many schools cut and are just not open about it. And of course it is not only based on showing up for class. other factors go into it as well. And as to Drew, yes my D was there this year. it was not a good fit. Too small, unfriendly kids by and large and she hated being in a small town. Not enough training. The dorms are in horrible shape as well. She did have some good teachers though</p>
<p>I had to respond to the "not showing up at class" comment. Any student talented enough to get into a top notch BFA program KNOWS that you DO NOT miss class, or oversleep, not show up, etc. You must be kidding!! If you show up 2 minutes late, you get locked out of studio and may be counted absent for the entire day. Several misses and you are basically OUT. I can't imagine a program where you would ever miss class unless you were deathly ill or some other emergency. Remember the classes are so small that it is definately noticed if a student is missing. From all of my D's friends in BFA programs across the country, the same thing is true-You would NEVER miss class!!
I am sure most everyone on this site knows this, but I posted this for the benefit of future students who may be looking at the posts.
Best of luck to those who have not yet made their decisions!</p>
<p>Actingmom,</p>
<p>That was exactly my point! When my D was at Tisch, and I'm fairly sure that it is the same now, you had a maximum of two excused absences at studio, and you better have an excellent reason for missing it. That was it. Not going to class was just not an option, and kids just did not miss class. This is what I don't understand. What it indicates to me is the possibility that DePaul is accepting too many students who are not committed to the responsibility and intensity of a BFA program.</p>
<p>Regarding cuts</p>
<p>I hate to be the cynical one but I always wonder if everything doesn't come down to economics in the end. All those freshmen make up the crews for shows, without students working on crew those would have to be paid positions. Perhaps the slow phasing out of the cut system that DePaul is doing is giving them time to restructure the crew situation.
I will reiterate that I'm not against cuts per se, when necessary, it's more the rigid number DePaul adheres to that perplexes me, and has made me wonder about it serving their needs, as I agree with the above. I expect any freshmen class to have some flame outs but half?</p>
<p>No one likes a cut system but I think your responses are unfair and ill informed. Kids coming out of high school don't always know what they are getting into when they commit to a conservatory program. I know kids who have left Tisch and other arts schools after the first year for that very reason. As I said, there are several things DePaul looks at in making the cut. It is absolutely not arbitrary and they have many years of experience understanding the ideal size of the class, etc. That being said, it does appear that they will eventually phase it out. I think the program is well worth looking at-over 1200 did apply and to avoid it because of the cut system is denying your kids potential opportunity if they otherwise like the program. These schools are all harder to get into than the Ivies.</p>
<p>travelling, do you think DePaul offers training that is superior to schools that don't have that cut system? I am interested in what DePaul might provide that would make it worth it (to a student) to risk being cut and that that student could not get elsewhere in a school that doesn't have cuts.</p>
<p>First, I do agree that in most BFA programs, there will be some who leave because they cannot handle the intensity of a BFA program and don't fully realize what they are getting into until they are there. So, that does happen at all programs....there IS some melt. BUT, it would be HIGHLY unusual for HALF of a class to leave who are not able to be fully committed or decide it is not for them. Kids who miss class and are failing are one thing but again, it would be very rare for half the class to fit this description. </p>
<p>I don't know DePaul's criteria for cutting but the mere fact that they PLAN TO AND WILL CUT HALF THE FRESHMAN CLASS and have decided that ahead of time.....no matter how many may be failing (let's say just two kids are not showing up and are failing classes) or no matter how many have willfully chosen that a BFA is not for them. How can a program decide in advance that 26 of 52 must go? That does not gel with the idea that some are not cut out for it or are not simply showing up for class. What if only two are not doing the work....why cut 26? So, already OTHER criteria would have to come into play because it is decided ahead of time to cut 26. Nobody said their cuts were for "arbitrary" reasons (although I am not clear what their criteria is beyond not showing up to class which I cannot imagine is a problem with the majority). But the fact is that they are arbitraryly choosing ahead of time to cut 26 (half the class) no matter how well these students might be doing. To choose a number to cut ahead of time IS arbitrary in itself. If their ideal size of a class is 26, then accept 26. If some fail out or decide that a BFA is not for them, well, like at any other school, the class will dwindle a bit (certainly not in half....I don't see that at most BFA schools even if no cuts are implemented) and they can always accept transfers to fill those spots. And why is the school phasing it out? There must be a reason, right? I think the mere fact that they have this system in place has caused SOME talented kids to not even apply. Granted, plenty do apply and it is competitive to get in but they do lose some potential top talented kids who are not willing to attend a program with such a policy. I know my kid would never apply given their policy. </p>
<p>I also agree with AlwaysAMom, that in my observation at my D's program, you absolutely cannot miss a studio class more than twice. I don't think they have significant problems with this and certainly not with half the class. They do not ask students to leave or cut. Some leave who realize a BFA is not for them (just like at any college, some students leave). If someone is saying that half of DePaul's freshmen BFA students either cut classes or can't handle the intensity, then perhaps they need to scrutinize their admissions process and criteria for how they select students. For instance, look at their academic records....that will give a clue as to the student's work ethic. Interview the students. Put a lot of stock in recommendations. Assessing talent is not enough to determine who can succeed in such a program. Why aren't other schools seeing a melt of 50% of their freshmen? If DePaul truly believes that 50% of those they admit are not cut out for it, then they may be admitting the wrong kids. However, what I think really happens is that they only WANT a class of 26 and they take 52 and work with them for a year and then decide which 26 they want for their program. And in my view, the point where a program decides who they want is at admissions. And if the student passes muster, the college should see them through to graduation unless they are truly flunking out.</p>
<p>I have to be at rehearsal in just a bit and don't have time to spew my own philosophy about cuts, but this came up a couple of years ago. I offered the following quote by former DePaul student, coffeeandcoke, to current DePaul student CKP ...</p>
<p>
[quote]
I go to the Theatre School @ DePaul (I'm on this site because I'm transferring to a prelaw program because I'm just not passionate about theatre anymore, through no fault of The School) and here's what I have to say about the cut. Generally 15 people drop out (the required 22 credits/quarter can take its toll), 5 people are idiot slackers and everyone sees it coming for them which leaves 6 that are more surprising. If you work hard, take risks, show up to class and take Crew seriously you'll be okay.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>CKP replied ...</p>
<p>
[quote]
I really wish that I could say the cut was like that, but it wasn't like that in my year...
3-2 guys and 1 girl- people dropped out (and one is coming back as a frosh this year!) and 1 girl got added because she took a leave so it was 24 guys and 27 girls.</p>
<p>Most people you can see it coming, but you never really know. There were at least 5 people that it actually made me cry/shocked that they did get cut.
[/quote]
Then as the conversation continued, she said ...
[quote]
I just wanted to clear up that quote you posted because it makes the cut seem really..different than it is (maybe because the person transferd before the end of the year? I don't know). I know from personal experiance how hard it can be, and I wouldn't want to have people think that it is as easy as they made it out to be, because that wouldn't be fair. It's best to know, right?
[/quote]
Here's a link to that whole thread ... <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/223433-depaul-university.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/223433-depaul-university.html</a> </p>
<p>and here's the old standby from Doctorjohn who at one time taught at a school with cuts for anybody who hasn't seen it ... Colleges</a> For Musical Theater Major Discussion FAQ</p>
<p>I agree with Soozievt. It would not be in the best interest of the school to risk losing many talented pre-admission candidates that may fear this system. I'm wondering is this is a written department policy? Maybe I missed this upthread.</p>
<p>This cut system sounds more like American Idol rather than a top conservatory. I would think that the talented, hardworking kids would be safe. Cutting half of a class just doesn't make sense. If that is the case, it's just plain cruel.</p>
<p>Hi everyone,
I'm new to this and have found all the postings very interesting and quite helpful. My daughter has been accepted into Webster's acting program and Catawba's MT program. Does anyone have any advice to offer as to which she should accept? Her thing is MT, but we understand that at Webster she will be able to participate in all the MT classes, etc., even though she will be in acting. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I can't find any sort of rating of theatre schools on in the internet and not being a theatre person, don't have the inside scoop on any of these schools.</p>
<p>If you haven't already, you might want to check out the Webster thread on the Musical Theater board (look at alphabetical listings at top of the page. Lots of good info there.</p>
<p>You might post your question over there; several of the parents posting this year have kids who were accepted into the acting program and they may have info to share as well.</p>
<p>My d is MT at Webster (finishing sophomore year) and LOVES it there. For the first two years the acting and MT students take all the same conservatory classes; I believe it diverges somewhat after that -- but don't know the details. I also think that your daughter would probably be able to take the same private voice lessons (through the music school) that the MT students take (required for them), as an elective. </p>
<p>From the standpoint of a parent, I believe one of the benefits of the Webster program is the strong emphasis on acting training for both theatre and musical theatre students. Feel free to e-mail or PM and I'll try to answer any other Webster questions. :)</p>
<p>Just curious; did Catawba change their admssions process for Theatre/MT? Used to be that admittance to the program was based on auditions during freshman year (and the website still seems to read that way) If it IS still that way, does anyone know how many "potentials" they take and how many of that group are accepted after they audition during their freshman year?</p>
<p>One more on the Depaul cut and then I am done. Maybe kids apply there despite the cut program because they value the training so highly that they feel it is worth the risk. Different students have different perceptions about it as I heard this past weekend. We talked to first years waiting to see if they got cut and they all felt that regardless of what happened the first year of training was extraordinary.</p>
<p>People apply to DePaul because it does offer great training and is an outstanding program. Nobody has questioned or been critical of what DePaul offers. It is a very well regarded acting program. It is important to be well informed about a program and its policies before applying. In this case, like you say, some are happy to apply and take the risk of the cuts and there are also many who do not agree with their cut policies and do not wish to apply. That's why there are many fine programs to choose from, including DePaul, and each person wants different things. Being informed is a positiive thing. Decisions such as which program is a good fit are very individual. For example, as a college counselor, I recommend CCM to many students but I make sure that they are well aware of their policies and procedures first. I know my D would not apply there but I sure think it is a great program for those comfortable with how they operate. Likewise, I would recommend DePaul to others but I would be irresponsible to not make sure they were aware of their cut policies by number as well. Then, the decision is in the hands of the applicant. </p>
<p>The discussion about cut policies is not criticism of the training itself. These programs are valued and very well regarded and nobody here has questioned their worth. People are discussing the cut policy and their views on it. Each student must decide for him/herself what they are comfortable with. Given the many applicants at DePaul, they are not hurting to get good students at their fine program. It just is not for all people, just like others may not like things about other schools. It is personal preference as to what policies you are comfortable with and which you are not. The value and strength of this program is not what I observe as being debated. It's a fine program and has a very good reputation for its acting training.</p>
<p>Exactly right. Thanks Soozievt</p>