<p>I agree that everyone deserves a chance to audition- but if prescreens cut numbers even slightly- so that schools can give in person auditions more time- that would be a good thing too</p>
<p>A prescreen is an audition! I am all in favor of prescreens although I agree about the added pressure. I think they are good because they save time, money and heartache.</p>
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<p>I agree with you that it’s unfair. The reality is that there have always been kids who have auditioned who have far less experience and training than other kids. I saw it when my D auditioned and that was many years ago. The numbers of that type of applicant may have increased due to the popularity of Glee but I don’t think that they increased to the same extent across the board. From what I’ve heard/read/seen, most of that increase has been experienced by schools who traditionally were not seeing the large numbers of of applicants that some schools have always had. I think that the prescreens are probably a good idea, for both sides, but it’s likely not weeding out solely those kids who are late to the process due to Glee but also some kids who have some training. Those of us who have been around for a while have all seen kids who have training and are still not at the level they need to be. Some of those kids still aren’t ready for a career in theatre even after graduation. </p>
<p>This business, including the college admissions process, is not a science. There will always be outliers, in both directions. There are a lot of very talented people out there, and more and more are being pumped into the mix every single year. It’s wise not to think that those who may not have taken the same path as others are not as worthy/successful/talented. An excellent example of this is an actor I’ve known for several years now who may just win a Tony this year. Check out the Les Mis Broadway FB page and listen to the beauty of his Bring Him Home.</p>
<p>I love the conversation over the past 24 hours. I think it really speaks to my question.</p>
<p>The reality is that you are ALL right.</p>
<p>1) Theater is a business. Professional theater. Community theater. College theater. </p>
<p>2) I think every parent has the right to dictate their child’s education, but you can’t wonder why your child doesn’t get into UMich or CMU over a student who attended a PA HS. It just doesn’t jive. Your high school may have great academics, but…that matters little to the top mt schools. </p>
<p>3) Recruiting is real. I think it will only get worse. As I said, look at Professor job listings - Ability to recruit is usually in the top two or three of the requirements on the list. </p>
<p>4) Private schools and performing arts schools are pulling college professors to take over theater programs. Why? The Arts are only viable with $, and $ only comes with quality and success. You want to see a good college show? </p>
<p>5) @raellis123 - Your daughter should be proud to be pursuing her dream and there is nothing wrong with it - but she is “behind the eight ball” so to speak. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but it is reality. </p>
<p>I agree with alwaysamom that there are outliers in both directions…those with little formal training but tons of innate talent who will make it and those with BFA degrees who will never make it, etc. </p>
<p>One thing I have observed on this forum in the past are some who say, “but my kid shows ‘potential’ and should be given a chance!” Potential surely is important! And they are going to college to learn more and not be all set to go professional already, necessarily. However, a college program can find applicants who have the requisite talent and skills AND show potential to develop further and don’t really need to accept those who merely “show potential.” This doesn’t mean that someone who doesn’t have a ton of training or who hasn’t gone to a PA high school, for example, doesn’t have a really good shot. There is innate talent everywhere and so those with a “lesser resume” for example, can be and are admitted to BFA programs. But with or without the formal years of training, these kids are simply very talented and don’t just “show potential.” Think about applicants to music programs on an instrument, such as cello. It isn’t enough to show potential and passion for cello, but it requires a lot of study and attainment of a level of playing ability to be a competitive applicant. Same with a sport, like soccer. You can’t expect to be recruited for a college soccer team unless you have honed your skill set to be competitive and not merely “show potential.” Now, I think there are many paths. Some will go to PA high schools, some will come to this field late, and some will have access to more or less opportunities and training. But no matter how they come by their talent, they have to have a high level of it…either raw or formally developed, and not simply have “potential.” When acceptance rates are in the single digits, a college can get a certain level of talent and develop it further and doesn’t have to reach lower in the pile of talented applicants. I’m all for pursuing one’s dreams. For college applicants to the arts, it helps to get an assessment of one’s skill set and competitiveness for BFA degree programs so that they have some realistic sense of where they might stand in the applicant pool and apply to colleges that are within some realistic reach. </p>
<p>Theaterhiringco…I REALLY do not believe one needs to attend a Performing Arts high school to increase their odds of getting into a BFA degree program! I know lots and lots and lots of kids who have gone to regular schools and onto very well regarded BFA programs for Acting or Musical Theater! (my own kid is among these) A Performing Arts HS does have advantages, particularly with all the arts offerings and right in one place all in the school day, etc. But those who go to regular high schools (public or private, academically challenging or not), can create their own “arts program” in a sense by putting together lessons and classes outside of school, and being in productions both in and out of school. My kid did that and so do many other successful candidates. My kid even did it in a rural area and she is not unique in that way (though it meant a LOT of driving!)</p>
<p>And over on the Parent Forum on CC, a common topic is about if sending your kid to private prep schools is necessary to increase the odds of attending an elite college. Private prep schools have a lot of value and they do send a high percentage of applicants to elite colleges (though I’m not sure this is because the kids are in private school as much as they have a strong pool of students in their schools that went through an admissions process to enter the prep school in the first place). Lots and lots of kids go to public school and end up at elite colleges! I have a daughter who went to a ho-hum (in most people’s eyes) rural public high school and went to an Ivy League college and got into the top grad schools in her field. I’m a firm believer that it is the applicant who gets into college and not the school from where she/he came.</p>
<p>I am not sure I agree with you about #2 because there is no evidence that PA training is better than outside training all year long at a high level. Of my D’s local friends, none of whom went to a PA high school they will be attending the following schools, all for BFA MT: Pace, CCM, Ball State, Texas State, U of Miami, Rider (2), and Texas Christian. </p>
<p>@soozievt - Even though D is from the PA HS group- I agree that it is not at all mandatory- but it sure is convenient! Especially compared to the driving etc- which we did while D was in MS…and to be frank carried over into HS she studied voice with a teacher 45 min from our house- b/c we felt that would be best for D, and don’t forget the shows all over town- farthest theater we had to travel to was over an hour away! But PA hs or outside training- if a kid isn’t putting in the time may not be at the level they need to be in order to compete. Occasional outliers will get through (though I don’t think it’s going to be Ramin for the Tony- my money’s on Neil- also an outlier, he started working in movies/tv as a kid) but they are the exception. @evilqueen - in the kids you listed were they doing outside training? </p>
<p>@toowonderful all of those kids including my D have been doing outside and rigorous training for at least 5 years. They all got the training they needed to be competitive in the context of a traditional high school experience. </p>
<p>toowonderful…I agree with you. There are lot of benefits to attending a PA high school. My kid would have LOVED such a high school, but they don’t exist in our state of Vermont. Sending her to boarding school was not an option. But I agree that the bottom line is to get training and also to have production experiences and it really doesn’t matter how you piece that together…whether it is at your school or privately, summers, whatever. Our high school doesn’t offer drama classes. My kid actually had no acting classes as these were not available in our region at that time. She did take private voice for five years and that was 50 miles away. She took dance 13 hours per week and that was 25 miles away. She was in shows both in and out of school and sometimes these shows were 50 miles away (I’m not including some professional work out of state too). She did go away in summers to theater camp for 8 years and sorta got the feel of being in a performing arts program that way. </p>
<p>There are many paths and the bottom line is to have the skill and talent and the training and experiences, however you can attain them given the constraints of where you live, money, and even having a parent available for transportation if you don’t live where there is public transportation and the offerings are not all at one’s school. I already mentioned that my other daughter did not attend an elite ski academy for high school and went to regular public school but did end up on the varsity ski team at an Ivy League college (wasn’t recruited and I would say the couple of recruits were from ski academies, but others were still on the team). In any case, I know so many kids other than my own, who went onto some of the best known MT programs and went to regular public or private high schools and not PA schools. But PA schools surely sound wonderful! (just not a necessity to getting into a BFA program)</p>
<p>@soozievt - we are on the same page. As D and I went through the process this year I felt for the kids who seemed obviously out of depth in the sense they didn’t have their “package” - I saw a kid with their resume written on legal paper (as though they had scribbled it down while waiting), and kids who clearly didn’t know appropriate attire (underdressed, overdressed, one in a halloween costume with a mask!) and a headshot that was a 4x6 snapshot. I have no idea what their results were- but one has to assume their talent would have had to work HARD to overcome being unprepared for the basics. Schools are certainly looking for potential - but a what point does what a kid doesn’t know about the theater world start hurting their chances?</p>
<p>Pray tell about the Halloween costume and mask! Oy. </p>
<p>Unless things have changed, the 4X6 snapshot shouldn’t be a problem but the Halloween costume? That’s a first for me. Sounds like something that would happen at American Idol.</p>
<p>From reading the threads this year I think the biggest issue is people not being prepared for the level of competition that is out there. Even if you are very talented without proper training and experience it is much easier to fall apart under the pressure and not do your best in the audition room because you are surprised or intimidated by the talent around you. The issue of how and where you get that training and experience seems to be very individual and works for people in different ways. I am not saying you need training or experience to be talented. I am saying that training and experience and reasonable expectations of the talent competition will help you to be more confident in your auditions. And we all know confidence is key to a successful audition.</p>
<p>Another way to gain confidence in auditions is by having a lot of audition experience. I imagine that kids who go into college auditions having auditioned very few times in their life, and despite their talent, may not be able do as well. Auditioning is a skill in itself. The more you audition, the better you get at it. Also, the more confident you will be in such a situation. So, one thing that young people can try to include in their years leading up to college is to go out and audition a lot. Get used to what that is like and also how to present in auditions and “sell” your material. I will say this…my daughter had a LOT of audition experience prior to applying to college…at all levels…from school to community theater, to regional theater, to theater camp, to college theater, including auditioning for Broadway. I think that going before an audition panel for college auditions, was a bit less nerve-wracking when she had auditioned a great deal already. However, she said there were nerves because way more was riding on the line than being cast in a show! Still, auditioning is an art. And being confident in such a situation can be gained from multiple experiences doing it. College auditions should not be one of your initial times being put in an audition room beyond a school setting. Even mock auditions would be helpful. It’s one thing to be able to act and to sing and another to sell yourself in an audition and so learning how to audition is important. </p>
<p>The 4x6 was a school picture- looked less than professional next to the other pics. The costume was for phantom- guy wore a jumpsuit and cape that clearly came from a Halloween store- and a plastic half mask. He sat all through the information session and took tour in full getup (this was at a campus audition) it was a thing. The school was really gracious- seemed to take it in stride, I guess they’ve seen just about everything!</p>
<p>It’s possible that schools are requiring actual headshots now but that wasn’t always the case and a school picture would have been just fine not that long ago. Many schools even confirmed that in their audition material info. Those photos are used simply for identification purposes so as long as it was an accurate depiction of the student, it should be fine.</p>
<p>The kid in costume is interesting. I have never heard of someone doing that for a college audition. One time I was meeting a friend for lunch in NY, I was to meet her at a studio where auditions were taking place at an open call for a tour of Rent. There were more than a few young men there in glasses, black pants, a maroon pullover sweater and a navy and white scarf. One was even holding an old movie camera. My friend came out of her office and walked down the hall, rolling her eyes as she approached. Yeah, kids, don’t do that.</p>
<p>Every school D auditioned for asked for what they termed a “headshot”- and 99% of the photos I saw were varying levels of the 8x10 glossy. Random queries of life- the photo is 8x10, and paper for the resume is 81/2 x 11 = annoyance! For college auditions (which were fairly concentrated) we had resumes printed on the back of photos. Generally we do the cut/paste thing - adding paper to the back- I knew that scrapbooking would become an important life skill! Many/most schools also took D’s picture at the audition to have a record of her on that day- which I thought was cool. The point is that the kid with the school picture and legal paper resume certainly appeared less prepared- I’m sure it didn’t matter in the room- but I think that it would be fair to assume if you didn’t know to be prepared with those elements your other materials (song/monologues etc) might not measure up either. Something I saw several times at unified (mostly as conversations in the hallways) was that there were students not prepared for schools that did not provide accompaniment. I noticed multiple scrambles to solve the issue- certainly could have thrown talented kids off their game.</p>
<p>Thanks @TheaterHiringCo. I agree that she is behind the 8-ball. I am very curious to see how (or if) she develops over these next few years. And I agree with @Soozievt - potential is good but you need to do something with it. It will be interesting to see what she can do or if she redirects herself into something else (I doubt she will, but you never know). </p>
<p>But I do know this about my D - she can take coaching and improve herself. She definitely did this with softball as she did not start with any raw athletic skills or aptitude. In fact it was pretty painful to watch at times until she decided to get serious about it. She got much better but it took time, nothing unusual, but time. She starts at a much higher point musically, she just hasn’t had the development time. And the sports appeared to help her start dance better than I expected. </p>
<p>So to tie that concept back to the thread discussion, I believe one of the skills that is needed (for music, theatre, sports, etc.) is the ability to take coaching and apply that feedback to improve your performance discipline (singing, pitching, etc.). Some folks get this through PA/sports schools and some through private coaches. Some who get coaching can improve themselves and some cannot. Therefore 1. you need to know that you need that coaching, and 2. you need to be able to apply it and improve. </p>
<p>The 4x6 thing and the Phantom costume story really make me sad. I feel bad for the student and their parents. </p>
<p>I preach to the choir here, because a majority of your children are prepared, evident by you BEING on CC. </p>
<p>Also - and I know this is a big can of worms - be careful of Community Theater as a method of LEARNING. Always be certain that intelligent people are running it, who know what they are talking about. I have seen Community Theater lead to tragic results for talented young people. There are some AMAZING community theaters in this country that can outdo many professional ones…but there are others that are…not as good.</p>