<p>keshira,
Yes, I am more than familiar with the PC party-line for free-rides to Harvard for poor kids. What many people seem to miss is that it took most full-pay families generations to get their kids to Harvard. From ancestors with no education, to high school education, to bottom-tier college paid for by hard work and loans, and on up. That is why many of us are a bit cynical about the entitlement mentality that poor kids should get a preference and free-ride at Harvard. Why, again?</p>
<p>Bay, I don't think poor kids have a "preference" in admissions as is evident by the sheer lack of Pell Grant kids at top tier schools. In general, I think what is being termed "preference" is just looking at the whole applicant. For a poor kid, it might mean overlooking a lack of certain activities or slightly lower SAT scores if the student comes from a disadvantaged hs, etc -- but, even then, a lot of things are a hard sell. My kids are Pell Grant recipients but won scholarships and funded some of their own high school activities-- but swimming, hockey, dance and piano were out of the question. </p>
<p>As far as a free ride to Harvard... it's Harvard's money and they have decided that they want to fund financial aid generously (they are generous to people I wouldn't call "poor"). This opportunity is far beyond the grasp of most poor kids who alternate attendance at a modest college with work. None of my children is at an ivy but I am glad for those who've been so blessed.</p>
<p>Thanks, claremarie. If those bathing suits are anything like my pantyhose, I can see why they wouldn't have a long water life. I'm always getting runs in mine (pantyhose, that is).</p>
<p>
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Bay, I don't think poor kids have a "preference" in admissions as is evident by the sheer lack of Pell Grant kids at top tier schools.
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</p>
<p>I believe the percentage of Pell Grant kids at top tier schools is about 13%, and the number of families at or below poverty level (Pell Grant eligible), is about 12%. Both UC Berkeley and UCLA have student bodies comprised of more than 30% Pell Grant recipients.</p>
<p>You consider 13% of Pell Grant recipients to be too high? I don't. Pell Grant level is NOT poverty level. Pell Grant income is roughly $40K with 1 in college-- which is considered middle class. The income limit is higher if there's more than 1 in college. I believe the median household income is about $50K meaning that 33%-50% of households would have income levels low enough for Pell.</p>
<p>Oh, and the ivies do not have 13% Pell Grant population. I can't get into the actualy JBHE study, but I found this excerpt on a Yale student blog and I'm assuming it's accurate because I seem to recall similar figures:</p>
<p>"The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education published a study in the fall showing that only 9.4 percent of Yale College students receive Pell grants, compared to 12 percent of Harvard undergraduates.</p>
<p>Of the 10 wealthiest American universities, the study reported, only Harvard had increased the percentage of Pell grant recipients from 2004 to 2006, from 9.4 percent to 11.9 percent."</p>
<p>Here is my source: The</a> Harvard Crimson :: News :: Harvard Pell Grant Recipients Increase</p>
<p>According to the article, the average income of Pell Grant recipients is under $20K, and the top 75 wealthiest colleges have student bodies comprised of 13% Pell Grant recipients.</p>
<p>Based on that source, the "poor" are getting the preference, the middle-class are not.</p>
<p>This is back to swimsuit again.:) I got this from my friend, whose son is probably ranked and would be recruited. He said the suit needs to be skin tight so that no air or water gets between your skin and suit to maximize performance. Because it is so tight, it will naturally stretch after a few races. The fabric is a special fabric that is suppose to repel water and have swimmer move through the water more quickly than human skin. The chlorine in the water is so strong, it breaks down the chemicals and properties of the fabric. His son's race is between 20 sec to 2 mins, so he could wear the suit for 8-10 races.</p>
<p>Back to money matters again.</p>
<p>In all the education studies I saw, there is a direct link to academic achievement and family income. You are not going to get the same proportion of kids with the high academic stats and profiles along the income lines.</p>
<p>Oldfort, my oldest was a national swimmer. Those "paper" suits that he wore for meets were terribly uncomfortable and tight. What kids usually did was just put them on for the swim and then took them off as soon as they could after the race. It made us moms crazy as we wanted those things back so we could rinse them and they could get their 8-10 uses as chlorine really wears out the suit. Too many times, the boys, in particular, would just rip off those things and leave them in the locker room and we would have to hunt them down. They were very expensive.</p>
<p>LOL, cptofthehouse! My kid is a swimmer and your story about wanting to rinse out the racing suits is so spot on! :D</p>
<p>So I have a son who is both a Pell grant recipient, a swimmer (doesn't have to be that expensive, depends on a number of things), just got his first LZR suit for college (discounted, and paid for it himself), and he goes to a highly selective, need-blind/meets-full-need college. I guess I cross some socio-ec lines. ;)</p>
<p>You are supposed to thoroughly wet the suit with plain water by taking shower before jumping into the chlorinated pool. This beneficial to your skin, hair, any swimsuit or cap as the absorbed water gives some protection from the chlorinated pool water, but few kids do this. Then after the race, you are supposed to rinse off the suit and self for good wear, but who does this? I was lucky to get home with the suit.</p>
<p>I don't think they are using the old paper suits anymore. The last ones we got were those full body suits that were even more delicate and expensive. I remember stitching seams that were starting to go. Old fashioned darning would have come in handy too.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse said: "In all the education studies I saw, there is a direct link to academic achievement and family income."</p>
<p>There are definitely exceptions. And it's these exception kids who are going to suffer. Take me for example. 4.0 uw/32/10 APs/etc ... with an EFC of under 3000. The institution that I have a pretty good shot at and would love to attend would be Emory. From what you guys are saying, if the admissions people factor my EFC to my admissions decision even at all, I'm pretty much screwed.</p>
<p>I sure hope this isn't true. Or else I've achieved so much more past my socio-economic potential for no reason. And that is a very depressing sentiment.</p>
<p>There Has Never Been A Better Time To Be A Smart, Rich Kid -- can't agree more and the article is great thanks!</p>
<p>While my son still lived at home and I was often at aways meets with him, I would hound him to rinse out his racing suits, and then also make him deliver them to me asap after swimming so I could rinse them out again... believing I would do a more thorough job of it. ;) He never had any of the really expensive suits (out of our budget), but even the mid-range quality suits were precious and needed TLC to keep them in good condition for as long as possible.</p>
<p>My kid is not a highly ranked guy or anything like that. He's just very dedicated to the sport and keeps pounding away at it. There's a lesson about perseverance in there, if not national standing and shiny medals.</p>
<p>We managed to keep him training and competing for years without having a lot of money. I think the cost depends a lot on what part of the country you live in, what level of competitiveness the kid is at, whether travel to big meets is an expensive matter (it's not always), what level of clubs and coaches are available... stuff like that. I know a lot of swim-kids from families in our income range ($50-60K). I also know many kids with much higher income families. It's a mix, at least in our region.</p>
<p>The suits can be expensive, but our very biggest outlay for a suit was around $90, and that was a very rare purchase. (Thanks to my compulsive rinsing. ;))</p>
<p>Hilsa, it would be really sad if you think only a few schools justify your effort. I know little about Emory and don't know if they are need blind or not. </p>
<p>Most can't attend their dream school because of money, it has always been the case in this Country and probably always will be. You need to readjust your thinking on what it is you should be working for, because surely it isn't admission to one college.</p>
<p>Emory is need-blind. Hilsa, just hang in there. You appear to be a strong candidate for Emory. No guarantees, but don't spend time worrying about this. It's not productive and may be completely irrelevant in your case. I hope you get a nice acceptance letter soon, and a financial aid award you can live with. If not that, then I bet you'll have other terrific options. Good luck!</p>
<p>Bay, I don't see how you conclude that from the information presented. As I wrote, there are plenty of middle class kids who qualify for Pell. Poor and lower middle-class kids are underrepresented at top colleges in respect to their percentage of the population and the % of Pell grant recipients at top schools has been dropping. And the average financial aid recipient is <em>not</em> a Pell grant recipient. As a matter of fact, most financial aid recipients are middle class and upper middle class. The fact is that rich kids are overrepresented at the elite schools. Middle class kids lose seats to them-- not to poor kids. Most Pell grant recipients end up at community colleges or at state schools. </p>
<p>cpt. Part of the reason kids have limited academic achievement is because they don't have the same opportunities. Some colleges are choosing to use private funds to offer the top poor kids and lower middle class kids these opportunities. I don't have a problem with that. </p>
<p>hilsa, My daughter also had about 10 APs and she did well in the process (not because she's a Pell grant recipient but because she had attributes they wanted). We've not dealt with Emory but there are top schools looking for kids with wonderful stats and they're willing to give you the aid you need. You can't hang your hat on one school but your stats are competitive at lots of top schools. Don't worry!</p>
<p>hilsa:</p>
<p>Keep your spirits up. You have applied to several colleges that are need blind and meet full need, including one of the no-loan colleges. I have full faith that colleges that are need-blind will continue to be this year for RD. (IMO, it's the WL where it might be tempting to take off those blinders, or subtetly decide that they need more downhill skiers or Intel participants, or other 'expensive' EC kid.)</p>
<p>For those of you who are unaware of this (it was not mentioned in the article), the president of Williams College has been named president of Northwestern starting in the fall.....</p>
<p>Thanks to all! Really. :) I haven't been worrying too much about financial factors in admissions, actually. This thread just made me think more into the process, so I just figured I'd post my two cents. I mean, I'd still be happy with my state school, FSU. But, honestly, I'd be happier with Emory (or Vanderbilt, my top school. I just have a better chance, statistically, with Emory, my second choice), but then again, who wouldn't choose a top 20 university over 99% of state schools?</p>
<p>And by going to Emory, I'd make my family even prouder of me than they currently are (though, I doubt they can get much more prouder than they already are of me). But, as aforementioned, I've achieved so much more than anyone in my family would have hoped for me to achieve. And that alone makes me happy and satisfied with wherever I end up next year.</p>