Where CC advice got it wrong for getting into top colleges

So I thought I would start a thread that discussed where the conventional wisdom on College Confidential was wrong, at least for my D, and I’m hoping this thread might be helpful for future applicants to college.

There is a wealth of great information shared on CC but below are some areas that CC flatly got wrong.

Background: My D20 recently got accepted to a Top 10 college but she did many things that CC would say was flat out wrong.

  • National Awards: CC says you need state and national awards to get into top colleges. My D only got one academic award (STEAM) and it was only from her HS;
  • Foreign Language: CC says you need at least 4 years of a foreign language culminating with the AP class and exam. D only took 3 years of Spanish and none after sophomore year.
  • Online Courses. CC says do not take online courses, adcoms won’t recognize them, but D took her 3rd year Spanish class online.
  • Dropping Varsity Sport: CC says don’t drop your Varsity sport as you will be perceived as a quitter. D dropped her V sport after junior year.
  • Most Rigorous Courseload: CC says you need 4 years AP sciences preferably AP Chem, AP Bio, AP Physics, and AP CS. D only took honors chem, honors bio, AP environmental sciences, and regular Physics at a UC.
  • Highest Math Class Offered. CC says by senior year you should at least be taking AP Calc B/C. Junior year, D had to take regular Math Analysis (schedule conflict) and senior year only took AP Calc A/B.

Community Service: CC says you need hundreds of hours of community service. My D had maybe 50 hours.

So to summarize, there are no real absolutes in college admissions. I give my D lots of credit for “doing” high school on her own terms, bucking conventional wisdom, seeking out classes and experiences that she wanted to do not necessarily doing things that others thought looked good to college adcoms.

Hopefully this information is helpful to show that there is no one right way to get accepted to top colleges. Do you!

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Congrats to your D!

Regarding your points above…I don’t perceive that any of those statements are the prevailing wisdom on CC.

Of course certain posters might take some of those stances, but that’s how things work on the internet. People have opinions, and some are less informed than others. Caveat emptor.

Congrats to your daughter! It is true that there are CC commenters who claim that state or national awards are needed. But regarding the online courses, I think the prevailing wisdom that they are not harmful (except when you really need a lab course) but they aren’t by themselves brag worthy.

There is so much guessing in college admissions from the applicant advice perspective. We were given advice that my daughter’s academics meant she should start at a CC as she wouldn’t be competitive for even non-competitive schools. We were advised that she should give up dance in college because she wouldn’t have a chance at acceptance to a college dance program. Both have been all kinds of wrong. I did my own deep dives and came up with what I felt was a fair list of matches and a reach, and her results say I categorized correctly and she has great choices. Like most life advice, you need to take CC advice with a grain of salt- take what you can use and leave the rest.

My biggest hope as to where CC gets it wrong…“when top colleges say SAT II are not required they don’t really mean it.”

Congrats to your daughter. My D21 is definitely doing HS her own way too and next year the results will be what they will be.

Agree that there are no absolutes for elite private colleges & universities. Publics can be much different, however, with respect to strictness about taking the hardest courses offered, GPAs & standardized test scores & class rank.

We had one child who went to a super elite prep boarding school. After receiving the college counselor’s list of suggested schools, he was fired & we did it on our own. The resulting list of options for this student was breathtaking.

Congratulations! Such an exciting time for your family!

But…

@Mwfan1921

I agree with this.

I vaguely remember your daughter’s profile from your other post (“average”), and thinking, “This dad is being quite humble!”

Congrats, again.

Good points. Regarding the course load, my kid is at a school where there is no way that one could take AP science/math courses all four years (unless they were 3 years ahead of curriculum coming into high school). I think they mean the most difficult curriculum for the school.

Regarding national award, it really depends on where you are coming from. Kids in our area, usually do have top national level awards (often in multiple areas) who gain admission to the tippity top schools. But I think a kid who shows sincere interest in an area can often get into a selective school as well.

Pointing out that there is no magic formula is important. Kids need to follow their own path. I don’t think that kids need to check off boxes. Being able to show that they are well rounded in important and if they are particularly skilled in one area, that is important as well. What isn’t useful is checking off boxes and not being able to showcase one’s talent’s and interests. Applicants should be able to jump off the page. The reader should be able to get a real sense of the person. Perhaps, your daughter did that through her essays and application.

Our experience with D graduating from a top LAC and S at an HYPS.

  • National Awards: Couldn't agree more. I have always voiced my doubts when posters write that this is a requirement. It's a great boost, but not a prerequisite. My kids had only had local and state level awards.
  • Foreign Language: Both kids only took 3 years of FL in HS, but they did reach level 4 since they took their language beginning in MS. I do think though that if a school says it recommends 4 years of a FL, only getting to level 3 may be a point against.
  • Online Courses: No experience here, but I think there is a qualitative difference between choosing to take a core course online when it is available at school vs taking a course (especially non core) online because the student can't schedule it or it is unavailable.
  • Dropping Varsity Sport: No experience here, but I agree there are plenty of valid reasons/circumstances where dropping a varsity sport or other major EC is fine.
  • Most Rigorous Course load: My kids did not take AP Bio (honors only) and one (ironically the STEM kid) did not take AP Physics (honors only) and both only took AP Calculus AB. However, I think getting the most rigorous designation from the counselor is a big deal. That though does not require taking the highest level course in every subject.
  • Community Service: My kids did participate in community service through NHS, their sports teams and our church, but were not directly part of a community service organization. I think colleges do look for qualities of service and empathy for others, but this can come from many sources and may be based on the applicant's family situation.

I agree that advice on CC sometimes comes off as rigid rules but in reality admissions is made up of a lot of different data points and what the school needs or looks for. The national awards thing seems to be more what applicants think (hope?) is important but I’ve rarely seen some state that as a requirement.

Also, your D has excellent stats and ECs, so it’s not really a surprise that she was a competitive ED admit to a top school that takes over half their class through ED.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/2154905-help-average-excellent-d20-with-reach-match-and-safety-colleges-p1.html

While the needed calculus level is often exaggerated on these forums, it does not seem often that posters write that four years of AP level science is necessary. The most selective colleges recommend four years of science, including one of advanced (e.g. AP) level (meaning they do not expect all four to be of AP level).

I do see posters’ assertions about the need for “national awards”. To the best of my knowledge, that is incorrect.

OP: Have you revealed where your daughter has been accepted. Judging by her profile & by your post that it is a top ten school, I think that it is easy to figure out which school.

If I am correct, my nephew recently graduated from the same school (as a public policy major).

@socaldad2002 Congrats on your daughter’s ED admit!

Do you have any ideas what DID push the needle in her direction?

My D20 was accepted last night to a top 10 school and did not report her SAT II scores. And that was advice I received here - her scores weren’t awful, low 700s, but people here recommended they weren’t good enough to help her. And that seemed to be true.

Also, regarding the OP - my child didn’t have any national awards either. Honestly, how many kids do? She was a hardworking, earnest, diligent kid with strong stats. We’re grateful that still holds up.

Good point. I forgot this one. D20 did not submit ANY SAT II subject tests either. She took two but we didn’t feel they were strong (below 700) to help her app.

I suspect that those who assert that national awards & similiar are necessary for admission to elite universities in the US might be international applicants for whom competition is even more intense than for US citizens.

@socaldad2002, congratulations to your daughter!

I agree with you on most counts. However, I don’t believe all CCers are dogmatic.

For my own daughter, I strongly feel it was the quality of her essays and her character as demonstrated through her extracurriculars that led to her acceptances.

Wishing your daughter the best!

I agree about the awards. Our GC said, really, most kids do not have anything in that spot except maybe some AP scholar awards. My S did not even have that - left it blank (is now headed to Tulane). Our HS does not have honor societies etc so it is weird to see all the accolades kids on here have received from their HS. Not sure what some of them even are, like Key Club - have only seen that referenced on CC.

I have understood the science recommendation to be one year of B, C, P with one of those AP in senior year. Not AP in all three. I am not sure that is possible in our school as the APs all require the regular or honors as a prereq. So it largely depends on the high school.

Congrats to your daughter. So nice to have the acceptance already.

Also, CC seems to disfavor summer programs at elite universities. In our experience, they yielded tremendous benefits.

With respect to foreign languages, however, I think that many elite schools prefer 4 years. AP score of 5 is often used for placement purposes or for general distribution requirements credit.

Just to clarify, I never said she was “average”. What I did say is she was an unhooked “average excellent” applicant as the term is commonly used on CC.