There's her top 3, and then there's everybody else - how many apps should she do?

Parent Cafe
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So you may remember us from this thread (http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2059477-new-here-d19-has-a-weird-wish-list-for-colleges-and-i-dont-know-where-to-start.html#latest) - my d19 wants to attend a college with a marching band where she can play in the pit. Marching bands with pits are few and far between so this has been a pretty strict limiter on the college list. Her career goal has shifted a bit - instead of med school, she is now planning to major in neuroscience with the ultimate goal of a PhD and is looking for schools where she can do research with faculty who are working in the areas of neuroscience that interest her (biology of anxiety and depression and/or neurodegenerative disorders).

So far, we have visited 4 schools - West Chester (PA), U Delaware, U Mass Amherst, and U Conn. She did not like West Chester but did like the others a lot and she feels she could be happy at any of them. All 3 will get applications.

Her stats are high enough (UW 4.1 - an A+ counts as 4.3, W 4.8ish, SAT 1450 and waiting on scores from the Aug test so will hopefully end up a little higher) that I’m not really worried about admission to any of those choices (though maybe I should be – seems like things get more competitive every year). She’d like to get into the honors program at wherever she goes and I’m not sure that’s guaranteed with her current stats. And of course, we’d be full pay for out of state tuition for any of them, so some sort of merit would be really really REALLY nice, which I know is hard to count on for out of state publics.

So anyhow, there’s those 3, and then there’s a collection of “everybody else” - a list of schools where we have not visited, but on paper they seem to hit several but not all of her requirements. Many of them do not have a band with a pit, which may end up being a dealbreaker when it comes down to it (she says it isn’t right now, but the advantage of band is the instant group of friends you have before school even starts and I suspect she’s going to end up wanting that). So I’m not sure whether to bother having her apply to any others when her top 3 are “perfect fits” and all of the others have at least one strike against them. Seems like 3 schools is kind of low for how many applications people submit around here. I’d hate for it to be an especially competitive year and her to end up with only one or even no options. And I suppose there’s always the chance that one of these schools will throw so much merit at her that she won’t be able to refuse especially if her top 3 don’t cough up any money. Also, like I said, we haven’t visited these schools - perhaps if we did, they’d be a top choice too. Realistically, high school marching band is all consuming in the fall so the most we could do is squeeze in one or two more visits in early November once the season winds down - we’d really have to think about which school(s) on this list is most likely to join the top 3 because there’s no way we could visit all of them.

So what do you think? Is applying to her top 3 good enough or should she cast a wider net? And if the latter, does anyone have any feedback on the rest of the list:

SUNY Stony Brook - excellent for neuroscience, has a Women in Science and Engineering program that she would be a good fit for, no pit in the band though, and I’ve seen a lot of posts about it being a suitcase school and students there being miserable - I think it got ranked as one of the lowest in quality of life for students. Typically I take those sorts of rankings with a grain of salt, but there is usually some truth behind them.

Miami of OH - good for neuroscience, has a band with a pit, but 10+ hours away is more than she wanted. Also heard it is very preppy and Greek life is very important, which she would not be into at all.

Virginia Tech - probably the best fit as far as faculty studying her specific research interests, but no pit in the band. Also kind of far away and also in the South (she has a medical condition that makes her very heat intolerant, so she was trying to avoid Southern schools.)

Pitt - great fit for her research interests, but no pit in the band. Pretty far away even though it’s instate (Pennsylvania is long and we are at the other end). And she definitely wants a real campus, not an urban school. She wasn’t sure how “urban” Pitt really is…is it like Drexel or BU where it’s just buildings on a city street or does it have an actual campus that happens to be located in the city (kind of like Ohio State)? She really hates cities but could probably be ok with an actual green-space kind of campus in a nice part of the city.

WPI - again, good for her research interests and the band has a pit, but it is a very small band. The whole school is smaller than she wants - ideally she wants 10000-20000 students, WPI has less than 5K. I’ve also heard that it’s located in a sketchy area.

Rochester - Only has a pep band (no marching) and kind of small. She liked the looks of the campus from a brochure they sent. Seem to have a lot of interesting neuroscience research. Smaller than her preferred size. A little far.

UMBC - Like Rochester, only has a pep band, but it is bigger and actually pays you money to perform in it. But in a pep band she could not play her preferred instrument. They have the Meyerhoff Scholars which seems like a fit for her, but I have heard that this again is more of a commuter school.

SUNY Binghamton - good neuroscience programs but only pep band. Other than that, I don’t know much about it. It’s kind of a new add to the list and I don’t know her reasoning behind it.

Rutgers New Brunswick/Douglass Residential College - this is on the list because her guidance counselor suggested it. It seems to have a good science program and is adding a pit to their band this year. However, it seems confusing with all the different campuses, it is way larger than she wanted, and I suspect that whole area is going to be more urban than she’d like – I have always gotten then impression that North Jersey is one big suburb of NYC. She really wants a traditional campus with green space etc. And everyone on here from New Jersey seems very anti-Rutgers - not sure why that is.

James Madison - has a band with a pit but it is huge (450+ people) and somewhat competitive. Again, it’s in Virginia and the neuroscience isn’t as strong there as at Virginia Tech.

Also, somewhat randomly, she is also hoping for a school where she could get a single dorm room as a freshman so if anyone specifically knows anything about that for any of the schools on her list, I’d love to hear it. It’s kind of hard to figure out what colleges offer that just from looking at their websites - seems like the housing part of most college websites is confusing!

So thank you if you’ve gotten this far! Does anyone have any feedback on any of the other schools or on how many apps she really needs to submit? This is our family’s first time through the college admissions process and the guidance office at the school is not much help so I really appreciate it!

Oh, we’re also open to other suggestions if you happen to know of a school that meets all the criteria (marching band with pit, honors program, neuroscience major, not horrendously far from PA and not too southern/hot).

Thanks again!

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DD is freshman at SUNY Binghamton- they have a program called FRI- freshman research immersion. It is a 3 semester, invitation only research program that exposes students to research early in their college experience. There is a neuroscience stream that has the students doing Parkinson’s research, this is the one my daughter is in. We live in the Philadelphia suburbs and it’s only about a 3 hour drive to get there.

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The specific area of research in neuroscience is relevant for a doctoral student- not relevant for an undergraduate. So I’d be taking that off the list entirely. If your D ends up in a doctoral program (which is a big maybe- she’s a HS kid) she needs a strong foundation in the sciences- bio, chem, physics and math, which is MUCH more important than any particular “strain” of neuro that she’s exposed to in the early years. Especially since her area of interest right now is so interdisciplinary- there will be profs in psych, in the med school, in the bio and chem departments, all doing research which is either relevant or touches on some of the issues. And in four years as an undergrad, she can’t possibly have exposure to all of the work being done in these areas. And she may decide that what she wants to study as a grad student is the chemistry of addiction, or the epigenetics of MS, or vision disorders… in which case, the narrowing of the field for undergrad studies REALLY doesn’t matter.

So to me- she’s looking for a “utility player” university in the sciences plus the pit band stuff. I can’t help you with the band piece I’m afraid. But I’d be putting Binghamton and Pitt firmly near the top; excellent all around research U’s in the sciences.

Have you run the NPC’s to see what these out of state places are likely to cost you? That would be my next step before getting ahead of myself. U Mass, U Conn and Delaware seem like solid choices for her as well.

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A friend’s daughter just graduated from UConn with a neuroscience major. She obviously likes this major at UConn more than at UMass because she is a MA resident who went out of state.

By the way, I work in Worcester, MA. WPI is located in a good area. The college inWorcester that is located in a sketchy area is Clark University.

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What is the pit in the band? I was in marching band. I know the term pep band, and played in pit orchestras for musicals in high school. But that doesn’t sound like what you are saying.

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One small point, Virginia Tech is in the mountains so it’s not particularly hot. Between Sept and May only 2 months have average highs in the 80s and that’s low 80s.

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Rutgers isn’t really “north Jersey”. It has great science programs (hubby got his master’s in science there), and it’s a pretty surburban area. But it is big! S17 didn’t look at it because it doesn’t have the typical campus feel, and the busses are what seem to be the biggest turn off to the kids. That said, I know a lot of kids very happy there. Can you visit? The tour takes you on the busses so you really get the feel.

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I wouldn’t worry about the weather at Virginia Tech either. The summer might be hot, but during the school year it’s probably a lot nicer than Philly in the summer. Wasn’t it 100+ in Boston and NYC this week?

Do any of the 3 schools have early action? If she gets an early acceptance and knows she’s going to college somewhere, then all the extra safety school can come off the list. Or, you can wait to apply to any of them unless there is a merit scholarship with an early deadline.

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Stationary percussion ensemble I believe is the pit of s marching band

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Thanks everyone! Yes @Nicki20 is right. The marching band pit is also called the front ensemble and it is the collection of large instruments up front that don’t march - things like xylophones, tympani, guitars, synthesizers, drumset, etc. It is hard to find schools that have pits for their marching bands because smaller LACs don’t have marching band and larger football-centric schools don’t bother with a pit because it is too hard to move all the big instruments to the away games. You kind of have to find a mid-sized school where the music department has at least as much pull as the football team, LOL! D19 plays the marimba, which is like a giant xylophone. She’s very good and definitely wants to keep playing. I know at a lot of the schools without band she could probably continue playing the marimba or one of her other instruments as part of the music program, but like I said above, the advantage of marching band is that band camp starts a week or so before school starts – you get to move in early and get an instant circle of friends with whom you are guaranteed to have something in common - band kids tend to be geeky and quirky and essentially her tribe. Marching band also gives you something to do on the weekends other than party so it’s like an instant social life for that first semester. I’m sure she’d be fine making friends without it, but after seeing how much marching band became her social life in high school I really feel that it would make for a much smoother transition for her to college (she struggles with anxiety so anything that makes her more comfortable is a good thing!)

None of her top 3 have early action, unfortunately. West Chester is rolling and I’m toying with having her submit an app just to have something in the bag, because I know at least Delaware pretty much released its decisions in batches starting mid February and depending on your intended major, some people waited much longer! But she doesn’t like West Chester and doesn’t want to go there, so it seems like of silly to bother with an app (and possibly take an admissions spot away from someone who really wants to attend there).

Good to know about the weather at VA Tech. Is it the same for James Madison? Band camp does start outside in mid August, typically, which was brutal for her this year in PA (the heat index was over 100 for several days last week!) so you are probably right that it wouldn’t be much worse than here. And at least the pit doesn’t march around in the heat!

@rphcfb - UMass doesn’t actually have a neuroscience major right now, but they are adding one within the next year or two - right now, it’s a Psych degree with a concentration in neuroscience. That might explain your friend’s D’s decision to go to UConn, where the degree is specifically in Physiology and Neurobiology. UConn’s one disadvantage is that it just seemed very remote (and I say this as someone who lives kind of in the boonies myself and went to school at booneyville PSU State College). Like there wasn’t really a town at all - just the university. I couldn’t even figure out where all the people who worked at the university lived – there was the university and then there were fields and farms. There seemed to be very little outside businesses to service the university --even to stay overnight, the closest hotel we could get was 25 minutes away, and that was just a summer weekend. I can’t imagine where people have to stay when there’s big events at the university like graduation or move in day!

@1S1Dforcollege Thanks for the info about Binghamton. Maybe that’s what made her put it on the list. I will make sure she looks up that program if she doesn’t already know about it.

@blossom - that is pretty much what I was thinking – that you didn’t need to specialize that far until grad school. But back when I went to school, undergrads weren’t doing research their freshman year either. I guess she figures if she’s going to be joining a research lab, it might as well be in a specific area she finds interesting vs. just something in her major. But you are right - if the university is a good fit in all other ways, she shouldn’t rule it out based on the research interests of the faculty because she can always specialize in grad school.

@NJWrestlingmom - yes, the bus system and multiple campuses are what seemed to turn her off from Rutgers. We could probably manage a visit to see what it’s like in person but like I said, we only have time for maybe one or two visits and they’d be after Nov 1 so not good for any kind of early action thing (don’t know if Rutgers even has that). And because our visit opportunities are so limited, I don’t want to “waste” one on a visit where she’s going to take one look and say “no way” and I suspect that may be Rutgers due to the size alone.

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@zozoty UConn admittedly looks like it’s in the middle of nowhere. And with the new Collegetown area, you’d never have to leave. Once upon a time that Collegetown area was much more small town like. There’s a hotel on campus, some B&Bs down 195, and then there is Manchester, with the big mall, zillions of hotel rooms, and every chain store you’d ever dream of about 30 minutes away.

FWIW the big fancy football stadium is in East Hartford, also 30 or so minutes away. Not sure if they play any football games on campus these days. The basketball arena is centrally located on campus but they play some games in Hartford.

There is a surprising amount of housing hidden in those woods and fields – apartment complexes and subdivisions. I graduated a very long time ago, but spent a day on campus this summer with my former college roommate and really toured the area and and all our old haunts – the ones that still exist that is!

In terms of people needing places to stay for graduation – it’s a state university in Connecticut and UConn is less than 2 hours from almost anywhere in the state with the possible exception of Greenwich. My parents wouldn’t have dreamed of spending money on a hotel when graduation was an hour away!

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If none of her top 3 have early action, I think it would be safe to have her apply to a couple of others. I know last year was a crazy year for admissions - lots of kids were surprised. We live in MA and the honors program at UMass has gotten very competitive.

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OP: There are very few singles at WPI for freshen; in fact most freshmen are assigned to triples, unless they have documented need for disability accommodation and have gone through the Dosability Services Office. It is a lovely campus but it certainly is a lot smaller than your daughter is hoping for. Great school, though!

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@Zozoty Feel free to message me if your DD has any questions about Binghamton.

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I would have her add a few schools she really likes excpet for the lack of a pit band. She may really change her mind by May 1 about what is most important. Good to have choices.

U Rochester is a great school with a real campus, but is not a rah rah sports school so if she is looking for that, not going to meet that requirement. OTOH, great science and with the med school may have options for research.

Pitt is not as urban as BU as there is green space on campus and a large park within walking distance. But it is an urban campus with busy streets surrounding.

I always get a bit concerned when a kid focuses their college application list on an activity, rather than academics. There are many ways to meet people and she may get to college and find she doesn’t like the pit band due to time commitment, the directors or the other kids. I definitely know more than a few kids who quit their sport or activity once they got to college for a variety of reasons - the ones who only picked the school for the activity sometimes transferred or stayed, but regretted their choice. Of course, many find schools that work for both academics and their activity. Good luck!

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agree with @mom2and: put in a couple of schools that seem ‘perfect’ except for the pit band part.

It is 100% true that many students keep their previous interests through- and even beyond- college.

But it is also 100% true that many students who are completely definitely absulutely going to keep those interests through college…don’t. Sometime b/c their interests change, sometimes b/c their ability to participate changes, sometimes b/c the difference between how it was (& who the people were) has just changed too much. Having a college or two where that is not a site for that gives your daughter a comparison, so that whatever college she chooses, it works for her whether or not she stays in the band.

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@zozoty the weather at JMU is similar to VTech. Maybe hot at the start of the August band camp and into a week or so into September, but not really that different than what you would find in New Jersey or PA.

There are some single freshman dorm rooms available depending on the dorm.

She could also apply to the Honors College which has smaller classes available, access to the Honors House, and to Honors housing.

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Your daughter would be eligible for merit aid at Miami OH https://miamioh.edu/admission/merit-guarantee/

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Would her medical condition justify asking for a single through the Disabilities Office? (However this can backfire if other students are curious about why…)

The music major forum might be helpful on the pit band issue.

I agree with others- and you- that a narrow focus as an undergrad may not be needed or even beneficial in the long run, but on the other hand, it must be nice to have a kid who at least feels so directed while she applies.

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WPI is small, but seemed to have very happy students. I wouldn’t say the area is sketchy - it’s just an old industrial city. My brother’s company really likes WPI grads in CS. My older son applied, but ended up somewhere bigger.

Anyway, in her shoes, I’d apply to the schools she likes and then pick three or four more. At least one, preferably two should be a real safety.