<p>“spending that kind of money on a 3 year old would just be ridiculous here. I can rattle off 100 people I know personally that could easily afford that, but would never even CONSIDER it.”</p>
<p>The key word is “here.” if they lived in NYC and could easily afford it i would guess they probably would send their kids to private, given the public options. (though of course, I don’t know these people)</p>
<p>I agree that spending $40k of preschool is NOT an investment. Going to the most expensive school you can find is NOT a guaratee your child will be successful. I guess if you have that kind of money you are certainly welcome to spend it however you like.</p>
<p>Most college application processes look far more at what a student has accomplished. You can go to any number of schools up through high school and still gain the credentials you need to be accepted in any number of colleges.</p>
<p>Time, true, true, but I still don’t think some of you understand. I hate to keep repeating myself, but i will. Depending on where you live in the city, your choices of public schools (except high school) can be severely limited to a place you would not feel comfortable sending your child to AND there are no inexpensive private schools except perhaps religious ones.</p>
<p>Now there are some nice public schools. If you live in district 2 in manhattan I think you’ll be fine, for example. But you should have seen some of the schools the DOE tried to place my child in.</p>
<p>I didn’t read the entire thread, just bits and pieces - and I have a question to mncollegemom - the 100 of people of your acquaintance that can easily afford 40k for Kindergarden, but would never consider it, what do they spend that $ on?</p>
<p>redpoint has many valid points about the lack of choice for many NYC parents - if its not a private school, you’re stuck in a potentially dismal situation of publics. There are a number of pretty good elementary publics, but they are so oversubscribed that sometimes siblings don’t get in. The specialized high schools are great, but only a tiny percentage of kids get in, and if you live downtown but got in to Bronx Science, then that means an hour commute for your kid each way, just on the train, not forgetting a 15-20 min walk to the subway if you dont live near the right train.
In terms of comparing the top private schools in the city to good/magnet suburban high schools - sorry, yes, ultimately kids get into similar colleges so if that’s how you’re judging education, you are right. If you’re judging education by the quality of the teachers, most of whom have terminal degrees in their subjects, by the actual intellectual process of learning, then I must respectfully disagree about the type of education one gets in top privates or boarding schools vs. top publics.
Finally, I will mention a point about private NYC schools that people are loath to say out loud - they are a manner of a private club. Families are described by the type of schools their kids go to. These families are not concerned that school A will get Johnny into Harvard, thats for the newly arrived. These families want to make sure that values and traditions that they respect are continued and carry on. (these views are not necessarily my views, this is a statement of a reality of these schools.)</p>
<p>Around here-cabins up north mostly–but really, they just save the money. Why would they need to spend it on anything?</p>
<p>"will mention a point about private NYC schools that people are loath to say out loud - they are a manner of a private club. Families are described by the type of schools their kids go to. These families are not concerned that school A will get Johnny into Harvard, thats for the newly arrived. These families want to make sure that values and traditions that they respect are continued and carry on. "</p>
<p>Let me just add that this is true of a subset of private NYC schools. There are plenty of schools besides the Collegiates, Trinities, Chapins, etc. There are also progressive schools, less-exclusive/great academics schools, Quaker schools, etc.</p>
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<p>I love NYC, I’m going there for a week in March and excited about the prospect, I think it’s a great city, I’d live there in a heartbeat if I could do so with the right amount of money, but please … get over yourself; plenty of people live quite enriching and fulfilling lives and never give NYC a second thought.</p>
<p>I was kidding! And that was a reaction to a post that was putting down the northeast and NYC.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t recall public school being bad at all. As I said earlier, I attended NYC publics from K-8, in Harlem and then on the upper west side. I did very well. I had traditional classrooms, open classrooms, experimental options, flex classes between schools. I learned to swim, had print shop, music, advanced work groups always available and a lot of teacher attention.</p>
<p>Have things changed so much since the 70s? </p>
<p>Or are a lot of NYC parents paying to place their kids to be in majority-white-kid, wealthier family situations? That was the motivation for a lot of parents, back then, I assume it still is. But more than the teaching quality, classroom size, etc? Hmm.</p>
<p>Sorry! My humor button must be turned off!</p>
<p>I did not go to public school in NY in the 70s, but I think things have changed from what you have described. Doubt there are many swimming classes! As I said, there are still some nice schools, if you are zoned for them. This test-prep mania consumes a lot of time, which I think must be different. I am not an expert, but I am a parent and have visited schools. I only have anecdotal evidence. I do get disturbed when I visit a 4th grade class where they read a picture book about Obama. After the story they were supposed to write something, with the lead-in "I think being president would be . . " the best answer was “great.” that was all that was required. I’m not saying that is the norm or not, but it is the school the DOE wanted me to send my child to.</p>
<p>You are definitely right when it comes to the race/wealth issue. People want to be with their own. And they want to be with kids from families who they PERCEIVE value education. The only thing in the parents’s defense is that when ones child is assigned to a school where 95 percent of the kids are of one race, and all other races are the remaining 5percent, and ones kid will be the only child of that race in the classroom, one will pause. In a city as diverse as NY one wouldn’t expect the numbers to run that way, but they can.</p>
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<p>That was me, 2nd-5th grade. I was one of two non-Hispanic white kids in my grade during those years. I doubt there were 10 white kids in the whole school. (I know that is no longer the case because that area of Harlem/Morningside Heights has become gentrified. I’m in a Facebook group for the school and I’ve seen recent class pics - lots more white faces. But the pool closed around 1979.)</p>
<p>It was challenging in some ways and great in others. Some kids had a problem with me, most didn’t. I had a lot of friends. I may have gotten more teacher attention. I took a black studies course in 5th grade and won an award for it. </p>
<p>When i completed my NYC public school time in 8th grade, I was accepted into all the competitive public, and most of the private high schools I applied to, with full scholarships. So I think I did well with that education and am in fact a better person for it. Not many white kids get to learn what is it like to be a minority, albeit the majority in a country and the minority only in school and neighborhood.</p>
<p>IMO this thread is the same one that’s recycled on CC many times over–the threads are simply couched in different language, i.e., “Is an elite college worth it? Is an Ivy League education worth the price? Or–Who would spend $$$ on XXX?” </p>
<p>Each one of us has different views on how to spend our money. More often than not, posters will have many arguments to justify their expenditures. My kids and step-kids have gone to both public schools and private, independent schools. When I was paying tuition for private, independent schools I would have argued that my kid was getting a better education than he/she would get from the local public school. When another child went to a top notch, suburban (public) high school, I would have argued that my kid was getting a good education, and there really wasn’t much difference in terms of outcomes between that high school and privates in the area. Similar percentages of kids in both schools went to Ivies and to top tier LACs and universities. </p>
<p>Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that even kids in the bottom tier of a private school class went to top tier LACs and universities. Based on my experience, I find that a bit hard to believe. Even in the very top private schools there are always kids who who don’t get into the top LACs or national universities–no matter how great the staff is or how great the facilities or resources at a private school, it’s ultimately up to a student to perform and there are just some kids who don’t (for whatever reason).</p>
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<p>I knew some kids like this. Most got booted from their private HS and their parents then switched them to lower tier ones, one s that dealt with kids who wouldn’t study or had discipline “issues” - not any cheaper and sometimes cost more. Back in the 80s I could name them, but I imagine the list has changed over the years.</p>
<p>I knew kids that went to 4-5 private high schools before finally managing to graduate.</p>
<p>But the HS that kicked them out for not being up to standards got to keep a better college admission record.</p>
<p>I guess the solution is to move to Singapore or Japan and educate your children there.</p>
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<p>This is the reason why I started out an extrovert at the age of 5 but had morphed into an introvert by the age of 7.</p>
<p>“Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that even kids in the bottom tier of a private school class went to top tier LACs and universities. Based on my experience, I find that a bit hard to believe. Even in the very top private schools there are always kids who who don’t get into the top LACs or national universities–no matter how great the staff is or how great the facilities or resources at a private school, it’s ultimately up to a student to perform and there are just some kids who don’t (for whatever reason).”</p>
<p>I didn’t say the kids at the bottom of the class got into top tier schools, I said they got into good schools like Skidmore and Northeastern. And it’s true. I also know of a kid with learning disabilites who was tutored like crazy and got into Wesleyan, but couldn’t hack it once there. It is up to the students to perform but some very wealthy students have an incredible amount of support.</p>
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<p>That suggests a real challenge for the large number of kids in the US who are minorities in their schools.</p>
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<p>^ Truth.</p>
<p>Classes/courses offered for one. They have multiple AP courses (our school has NONE), multiple languages - they ALL learn latin as part of the regular curriculum beginning in elementary school (our school only offers Spanish and only in high school), they have smaller class sizes, they have special ‘offers’ of summer enrichmant programs/field trips like Montreal, New York, tennis camps, math academies, diving and gathering samples from a reef - research for companies etc (Our school cut ALL field trips due to budget).</p>
<p>The general feeling at our school is that the parents are not welcome. They claim we are, but then don’t allow you to come to school during the day, you cannot go down the halls to the classrooms before school because the teachers are ‘busy’ , etc. The teachers are burnt out and so are the parents.</p>
<p>At my friend’s private school, parents are required to volunteer. They have a meeting every year to discuss curriculum and ask the parents what they would like to see their children learn or be exposed to. They are eager to share classroom projects, have class breakfasts & lunches, and have regular activities to keep the families involved. </p>
<p>The type of homework her kids have is entirely different than mine. They take school more seriously, have learned more and are better prepared for college. They have much higher ACT scores (sorry, we don’t do SAT’s here , so can’t compare it) and better study skills.</p>
<p>Checkers–our public high school has 32 AP offerings and a multitude of college classes kids can take for free. They have access to 10 different languages across the district, regular trips all around the word with various groups, lots of parent volunteers, parent councils to help with curriculum, staffing, and all kinds of other needs for the school, and our schools top the state in ACT scores, which in turn is one of the top districts in the nation for ACT scores as our state tops the nation as well. There are dozens of public schools in our immediate area that offer the same. You don’t only get those things at private schools. </p>
<p>Difference here–parents care that their kids are getting a good education. 80+% of the kids that take AP tests get 4 and 5’s on the majority of the tests taken. There were 12 sections of AP Biology last year. We are a pretty solid, middle class area too. Yes, there are plenty of higher incomes as well but for the most part, very middle class.</p>