<p>First of all to set the record straight I totally know that you all for themost part are an exceptionally intellignet and accomplished bunch, so please know that I know this. For some though to come off with these scathing attacks, I can't help but wonder if I have hit a soft spot or something I mean geez i can almost feel the anger coming across my monitor and its scary! I know how every year thousands of amazing students are rejected for various reasons and its appalling to think how many got in less qualified for different reasons. I am sympathtic to that, my own situation included. I do believe that yes you are right, being a legacy could have tipped things in my favor and am sure there were thousands of applicants out there just like myself, when you are talking the ivies you are also talking the creme de la creme of students.</p>
<p>I KNOW I AM LUCKY, VERY LUCKY TO HAVE GOTTEN INTO YALE EA.</p>
<p>TL...........just because there is one very rich girl in my public school doesn't mean my public school is so rich, besides what in the world does that have to do with this discussion? You are focusing on the wrong thing here.</p>
<p>Kamil....I didnt' mean that for everyone but for a few, it seemed a little too personal, wasn't necessarily directed to you. I am not surprised that you all have done what you have done, I am impressed:)</p>
<p>And last I AM NOT, looking for any kind of "sympathy", just made a point and really still feel this way. Legacy is one thing as long as the student ON HIS OR HER OWN would have stood up to the rest of the pool to get in I think that it is OK, ditto for a developement case, IF and only IF that kid also has the credentials and could have stood on his own with or without money, against the rest of the pool, then yeah thats a great edge to have (lucky dog) BUT if this person is actually on the weak side, I do have a problem with it as much as I would have a problem with a weak legacy applicant. Point made........off to school. Hope you have an awesome day!</p>
<p>Do you know what really kills me about the admissions process? That you can work your ass of for four years but in the end it all comes down to luck, and is a "crapshoot" because colleges have more outstanding applicants then they know what to do with.</p>
<p>Applying for college isn't like gambling. In gambling, the house wins, and you always pay more than your expectation in the game. But in college applications, you try to prepare as a high school student to thrive in a competitive college, and you first of all have pretty good odds of getting in, and second have great opportunities to thrive in a less competitive college if you have prepared well in high school. That's not such a bad outcome.</p>
<p>I definitely think connections do play a part especially in the early phase where many recruited athletes, legacies, development legacies, development admits tend to apply. Yes, it is a crapshoot, but it is also a lesson in the power of priviledge. For every applicant who got in with not as competitive SAT scores and a lack of extra curriculars due to a connection, there were probably five applicants who were deferred who were truly exceptional and compelling.</p>
<p>Harvard has a $30 billion endowment. The amount of money necessary to allow the weak student's admission into Harvard is very large. For the most part, Harvard doesnt need to bend over backwards to keep their endowment above the rest. Legacies are very smart. Only those who are capable apply, and just over 3 in 10 get in. Legacy admission is not some ridiculous stunt for money. Almost all legacies are capable. In fact, last year Legacies average test score was above that of the rest of the class.</p>
<p>There is always a small group like the girl mentioned in the beginning, but some of the things people say about legacies, athletes and minorities are really ridiculous and unsupported.</p>
<p>Well I know your stats arent straight because the average is 1470 (pg. 28 POA). I've probably read more books, articles, etc. than anyone on this post in this topic but I cant remember off of the top of my head where I read that stat although I know I have. I will continue to search.</p>
<p>By the way, the statistic I read was for last years entering class, so you may be hung up on historical numbers.
"At Harvard today, Admissions Dean William Fitzsimmons says he personally reads all applications from children of alumni, which numbered 727 last year. He says the average SAT score of legacies admitted is just two points below the school's overall average, and that legacy status is basically used as a tie-breaker between comparable candidates." This is from the WSJ dated 2003 and the trend since then has been towards what I stated above</p>
<p>The conclusion: you and the unbearably naive grotongirlie shouldnt discuss things you dont read about or understand. Sorry for being harsh but I cant stand people who speak on pre-conceived notions and unfounded opinions.</p>
<p>Paulfin, please find me the numbers. If you do, I will apologize, but considering that the newly published books regarding the Ivory Tower specifically state that Legacies have a 100 point advantage, unless I see the data I cannot believe you.</p>
<p>Also, Harvard does not release average SATs (according to theglitteringeye.com), so any data is an estimation, I based my on the US News rankings, using the 25th-75th percentile, adjusting it slightly upward for the average because I assumed that the data sets would be grouped higher up with a shift down due to outside factors like minority admission, legacies, and skilled ECs. </p>
<p>Again, Harvard has never released any official statistics on this subject, which makes me question its validity, and your trend is solely your conjecture.</p>
<p>"and that legacy status is basically used as a tie-breaker between comparable candidates..." Everyone looks comparable at the high levels...</p>
<p>Yeah Paulfin, I do know what I'm talking about. You've been stating crap, now why don't you actually post links instead of forcing us to google everything to find what you're talking about. And besides that one comment by an adcom, show me something related to what you're talking about.</p>
<p>Also, there's the "edit" key.</p>
<p>The conclusion: you need to learn how to use your " ' " key. Sorry to be so harsh but I can't stand self proclaimed well read persons not even using correct grammar.</p>
<p>haha you know it's time for a thread to end when it becomes an irrelevant argument between 2 random posters who start criticizing each other's grammar. it happens on like every CC thread lol</p>
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haha you know it's time for a thread to end when it becomes an irrelevant argument between 2 random posters who start criticizing each other's grammar. it happens on like every CC thread lol
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<p>Sometimes I think it's time for anything to die when it becomes self-referential... like movies about screenwriters, books about writing, art about artists, college students writing about getting into college, wikipedia pages about the proper way to write wikipedia pages, discussions about discussion etiquette....</p>
<p>I realize that I'm perpetrating the very thing I hate.</p>
<p>Random note to justify this post's existence: isn't it a "nice" thing about College Confidential that people disintegrate into grammar criticisms as opposed to swearing or "wud u lik 2 send hotttt pixx 4 $$" or "asf plz" or even "lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzz u got pwnd"...</p>
<p>(Wow, that took wayy too long to write. I am so out of the pop-culture-lingo loop. :P)</p>
<p>everything on CC is pretty self-referential...in general that sort of thing isn't really a big deal anymore because so much of our life is spent online, it's natural</p>
<p>lackadaisy, LOL, and yes, I do agree with the whole self-referential suicide thing. I have once read a manga about how to draw manga and it really was quite a meaningless thing to do. </p>
<p>And I agree also that CC is nice in its relative etiquette and grammatical syntax. You really can't find this in very many forums. </p>
<p>I know I'm going completely off topic, but frankly I'm intimidated in making any sort of comment less the OP starts buchering my words. I guess if you're not with her you're against her. Seriously though, if you decided to post something like this on the Internet, you have got to anticipate criticism.</p>
<p>Well, this girl attacked me and I wasn't even here to witness it. That must show how much I care. But then I saw this thread again and felt like commenting:</p>
<p>"I AM NOT I AM NOT IAM NOT COMPLAINING.......I AM DIFFERENT SO DON'T SAY I AM NOT. I AM NOT HYPROCRITICAL, MURKY, get your facts straight seroiusly, you have no idea what you are talking about."</p>
<p>Woah. I think someone needs to calm down. Geez, Louise! I'll tell you what - I'm from a family of three children, we earn less than $30k a year, in debt by over $20k because of my sister's college tuition & paying for my brother's disability. </p>
<p>You are fortunate that you have the resources to even CALL yourself upper middle class, and yet you are still not satisfied. If you had the riches like "harvard girl" did, you'd probably use them the same way. And yes, you might not have been slammed had you not mentioned that you got into Yale EA and that you had listed yourself as a legacy.</p>
<p>Some people will understand, but I don't get where this attitude comes from. You "scream" in capital letters to a sarcastic remark, and you completely YELL at everyone who doesn't sympathize with you or agree with you. Why post at all if you're not going to be open-minded about the process? </p>
<p>I apologize for my sarcastic comment. My parents didn't go to college in the U.S., so honestly, I hate it when people are yelling here and there about "legacy" and "excess riches". It honestly makes me sick. And the fact that you applied EA to Yale when you're not actually going to attend there if you get into Harvard astonishes me, even if it isn't that uncommon. </p>
<p>I hope you get into Harvard. But even more than that, I hope by then that your negative attitude has drastically changed.</p>
<p>I beg to differ, I dont' have a negative attitude, I truly realize that I am a lucky girl and yes with everything being relative I know I am luckier than many. I want to emphasize that without using caps:) But I feel like I was really attacked because everyone was so quick to see I got into Yale EA but totally disregarded the real reason for the post. Boy was I an idiot for posting that, my blatant honesty hurt me more than I realized it could. Suddenly I became a target and it hurt. About five of you did pm me to tell me they totally understood my feelings and I REALLY appreciate it.</p>
<p>Murky, No I would not use the money the same way H.girl is, its just not in my character and anyone who knows me knows hands down I couldn'd do it. Whether or not I go to Y or H, and whether or not i even have that choice is still not clear, but why it would astonish you perplexes me. I am sorry if hearing people complain about peoples riches getting them into college sickens you but guess what, it does me too! Hence my initial post, which so many seem to have lost sight of. I dont' have a neg. attitude, a little stressed out perhaps, I am open to a healthy debate but not someone jumping down my throat or attacking my character without knowing me. I am open to hearing others opinions and I actually welcome their point of view as it can open my eyes but there is indeed a way and etiquette to this and I can't say I have seen this displayed in abundance except for some on this post. I stand behind what I originally stated and ask that you respect my opinion as I would yours. Good night!!:)</p>
<p>Kamikazewave, can you read? The Price of Admission is more recent than whatever else you are probably talking about and I think it is safe to conjecture that you read that legacies can get up to a 100 point difference. I gave you a WSJ reference which says two points. That is a far cry from 100. WSJ is the Wall Street Journal btw. Harvard has released stats, they are all over the place, so you are an idiot. I apologize for not caring about correct grammar in my posts, I care more about accurate, intelligent content as opposed to correct apostrophe usage. I have gotten into Harvard, and I know Harvard much better than you do. I could say so much more, but I will wait for your response. I guarantee your dumb ass that last year, legacies outscored the rest of the class on the SAT. Sorry to everyone else who wants to have a more productive post, but I really cant stand this guy.</p>