<p>Why do some colleges choose to be so selective? What do they get out of having such low acceptance rates? I feel that whoever takes education seriously should be able to go to whatever college or university they want to. I feel that some students dreams are crushed because they had a school in mind they wanted to attend, but read on here about them and realize they're WAYYYY off the radar (I actually saw a thread like this) I also feel that there are excellent students out there that'll never be considered for great colleges because they never got this many EC hours, or they didn't take enough AP's, or they're not a star in their community. (Sorry for this rant haha, I had to get this off of my chest)</p>
<p>[Why do some colleges choose to be so selective?]</p>
<p>Simple answer. There is not enough room for everybody that applies.</p>
<p>I am confused… are you saying that colleges should have unlimited freshman class sizes? As many students as apply get in? So, say, a liberal arts college that people like for its small class sizes and charming remote location that normally has a freshman class of 500 students would have to house and educate 2,000 freshman if that is who applied?</p>
<p>I agree that there are colleges that try to get as many students to apply as possible knowing perfectly well that they can only accept a small fraction of them. That low acceptance rate apparently makes them appear more prestigious and even more desirable to future applicants. It also gives them a very large pool to pick from so they can be VERY selective about which students they take and build what (in their minds) is a “perfect” class. But it gains them traction in the USNWR rankings to do this (<em>cough</em> U of Chicago’s recent move to the common app and corresponding climb in the rankings <em>cough</em>).</p>
<p>But that is the game in college admissions… if you spend some time out here on CC, you will see that there are plenty of people who can give advice on how to pick schools that DO fit your talents and desires, and how to apply to a range of colleges so you have some choices that you can be happy with when the time comes. Don’t be sold by the marketing hype from the colleges, and don’t get too attached to any one “dream” school. The colleges treat this like a business decision… and so should you.</p>
<p>Colleges don’t choose to be selective, the decide how many people they can accept into their incoming class, and the students choose to apply. If they have space for 100, and 1000 apply, then only 10% will be accepted. Why shouldn’t the top private schools, who have vast resources to share with their students, pick the top students?</p>
<p>If a student is crushed, perhaps they weren’t paying attention early enough to do something about their prospects. They don’t have space for everyone who applies, and if they don’t set criteria, they won’t be anyone’s dream school.</p>
<p>“I feel that whoever takes education seriously should be able to go to whatever college or university they want to.”</p>
<p>Who says they can’t? Ever hear of public universities?</p>
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<p>Colleges get prestige. Prestige means happy alumni who open their wallets to donate.</p>
<p>Having such a low acceptance rate means that the schools have an enormous number of applicants-- this statistic enables the college to get get a higher bond rating, which translates to a lower interest rate for borrowing.</p>
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<p>How then, do you propose that colleges should select their students for a limited number of slots-- pick the first 1000 kids who apply?</p>
<p>Op,
About 3.4 million students are expected to graduate from high school in 2012–13, including 3.1 million students from public high schools and 283,000 students from private high schools.
source: [Fast</a> Facts](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372]Fast”>Fast Facts: Back-to-school statistics (372))</p>
<p>So let’s have all 3.4 million of them attend, say, Harvard!
Actually, let’s say that only 33% of graduating HS seniors want to attend college…so let’s have all 1.1 million students attend, say, Harvard! This way, no one will be crushed, and everyone will get what they want. No, wait, what if next year all 1.1 M want to attend Stanford. Let’s build more buildings and hire professors to accomodate the students. What? It takes more than 1 year to build enough infrastructure for 1.1 M students? And what do we do with the previous infrastructure at Harvard that is now unused because the next year’s class is all going to Stanford?</p>
<p>katliamom posted: " ‘I feel that whoever takes education seriously should be able to go to whatever college or university they want to.’ Who says they can’t? Ever hear of public universities?"</p>
<p>Um, I think the key words that you missed are “they WANT to”.
The availability of public universities does not enable one to attend the school they WANT to attend.</p>
<p>But the fact that schools can only provide so many slots does!</p>
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<p>If the student does not have what it takes to succeed at that college, it is not in the Student’s best interest to be admitted. That is the problem with a lot of State Universities. They set the bar low enough so that they give anyone admissions who might have a chance at succeeding. Then they end up flunking out a good percentage of the entering class (1/3 for engineering is not unusual). Time and dollars wasted. Sure, it might help a few, but it hurts a lot of other kids in the process. It would be better for the lower performing kids to prove themselves at a less demanding college, and then transfer in later.</p>
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<p>At the elite colleges, it is not just about academics. It is about being driven and having a passion (as demonstrated by EC, taking all the AP’s they can, etc.). The kids drive and passions push each other. If you have no drive and passion, you are a drag on the student body. It is not fair to the other kids if you are bringing them down.</p>
<p>Yohoyoho, don’t be silly. You can just load the buildings onto trucks and move them across the country. Better yet, use all pre-fab buildings, and move them from place to place as admissions trends shift. And the faculty can be itinerant and go along. :D</p>
<p>I like the way the UK does it - they get to apply to the schools that are on their level, so if you don’t have high scores, you don’t get to apply to the “Harvard” of Europe. It’s sort of how the system in the US used to be. Only the smart (and rich) went to Harvard. I never would have applied to a school like an Ivy - it just wasn’t done if you weren’t at the top of your class.</p>
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<p>Actually, Ivy undergrad admissions…especially Yale’s before the mid-60’s was more about whether you’re a scion of some wealthy family and/or whether you were very well-connected rather than academic merit. </p>
<p>My Yalie uncle was part of the first class or two that were admitted mainly on academic merit and he recalled that there was a large social gulf between middle-class first-generation students like him admitted on strong academics and upper-classmen like W whose later reported HS academic stats were considered weak even for that period. </p>
<p>Also heard from several folks slightly older than the uncle that schools like the Federal Service Academies or universities like the pre-1969 CCNY/CUNY were actually respected much more than the Ivies by working/middle-class Americans precisely because the former were seen much more as bastions of academic merit than the latter.</p>
<p>katliamom posted: " ‘I feel that whoever takes education seriously should be able to go to whatever college or university they want to.’ Who says they can’t? Ever hear of public universities?"</p>
<p>Um, I think the key words that you missed are “they WANT to”.
The availability of public universities does not enable one to attend the school they WANT to attend.</p>
<p>-- I didn’t miss anything. If you WANT to attend a selective public school - say, Berkeley - and are a serious student, you can. If the question is why can’t I attend for the same price as instate students, that’s something else altogether.</p>
<p>*Quote:
Originally Posted by megan12
It’s sort of how the system in the US used to be. Only the smart (and rich) went to Harvard. I never would have applied to a school like an Ivy - it just wasn’t done if you weren’t at the top of your class.
*</p>
<p>Uh no…It didn’t used to be this hard to get into ivies. Some with rather “just ok” stats got in because of the prep schools they went to, who their families were, etc. </p>
<p>My H was accepted to Harvard in 1973 with test scores that would NOT likely get admitted today…and he was completely unhooked.</p>
<p>Your ideas may not be “dumb” but they are naive. Wanting something and being well qualified to obtain it are two different things. There is also a huge surplus of excellent students- far too many for those who want to attend any given top school. There aren’t enough resources to give the quality education- physical space or personnel- to more than they already accommodate. The truly top schools are not that interested in their admissions statistics, those figures just happen as they are popular because of their quality. Even college is the real world- you don’t always get what you want.</p>
<p>To quote Judge Smells in “Caddyshack” when Danny Noonan was lamenting how his parents probably couldn’t afford to send him to college, “Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.” Sorry, that’s the first thing that popped into my head.</p>
<pre><code> Some kids get coached from early on what they need to do to get into elite schools; Eagle Scout, service hours, AP classes, study, study, study. These kids put in the work, and if they have the mental talent, come away with their just rewards. Some people do not receive this coaching and encouragement, and some kids simply do not have the mental talent, no matter how hard they try. It is an imperfect world, rarely completely fair. Academics come easy to some, some toil endlessly to get B’s. Some do little work for B’s (that was me in high school, talented but lazy), while others needed tutoring just to pass. My point is, just like life itself, education does not offer a level playing field. All you can do is play the hand you’re dealt to the best of your ability. As people age and mature, they come to realize that not getting into that “dream” school was not the end of the world. Yes, thousands of high school graduates will get into the school of their choice next year, but tens of thousands will settle for the school they can afford and get into, and will turn that education into a perfectly normal happy life. Others will forego college, learn a trade, support a family, make a home, and retire to enjoy their grandkids. All without going to a “dream” school.
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<p>I like Wis’s answer the best!</p>
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<p>Yes, clearly the 78% of Berkeley applicants who are not successful just aren’t serious enough.</p>
<p>Now I am reminded not of Caddyshack, but of that inspired SNL sketch from 2008 in which Tina Fey as Sarah Palin says, “It just goes to show you, anyone can be President. All you have to do is want it.” And Amy Poehler as Hillary Clinton blurts out incredulously, “You know what, Sarah? Looking back, if I could change one thing, I just should have wanted it more!”</p>
<p>Supply and Demand. Don’t take it personally.</p>
<p>I really just used Harvard as an example - that was probably one of the most elitist ones, so it probably wasn’t the best choice. I just remember the ivies being easier to get into for smart people (and not necessarily rich ones) when I went to school (way AFTER the 60’s, thank you). But people who were not at that caliber of academics didn’t bother. That’s all I was saying.</p>
<p>Kids today with equal or better stats are just part of a lottery and get turned down left and right. It’s a joke. You can be the most amazing student with a 4.0 and 2400 SAT, and do the most amazing extracurriculars and still not get in. That just didn’t happen as frequently 20 years ago. The ivies and top schools were for the best and brightest only (and yes, the richest). Now they have a much broader scope of students that are accepted, which means there are fewer spots for the valedictorians and other top students. Some people think that’s a good thing - I don’t happen to agree. It’s just an opinion.</p>