<p>Thanks for the response. We probably can get in the visit to the faraway school before the deadline, but his application may be complete before that. Timing completion that close to the deadline is tricky - you don't want something not to arrive on time. We'll have to ponder how to demonstrate interest in some other ways before the visit.</p>
<p>I too followed Andi's saga with my heart aching for their dilemma.
I think NYUmom is being insensistive and heavy handed and does not have all the facts.
A key area, not discussed, in mho, is that Andison needed financial aid.
College guides imply that kids who get in at the end of the admissions saga from wait lists tend not to need $. I am sure this is not true for all schools, it is likely to be true for many. It does sound like his college counselor should work for fema!</p>
<p>atlantamom I wouldn't worry that much about the timing of the visit and long as it is early in the review process. You can have it scheduled long before that so they see the interest. Interviews though may need to be completed by a deadline. Most LAC's can arrange for an interview in your area. One girl from our hs got into WUSTL several years ago, to the astonishment of her classmates, but she took EVERY opportunity to show interest and applied ED. Every time they were at a college fair she was there, if they hosted an info session she was there etc. They probably had as much correspondence from her as we all get from them! Have your S use some of the other options to show interest as well, the long term commitment of involvement with that school may mean more than the visit, though I wouldn't neglect that. I think the visit is truly important for your S to verify that the school is the right fit for him. I know that the overnight was critical for both my S and D.</p>
<p>I must agree w/Berurah that Andi is entirely capable of offering a cogent, persuasive "defense" of how she & her S "worked" the WLs during that phase of their saga...but I just have to add that Andi and Andison DID work the WLs...they talked to adcoms; Andison's GC talked to the adcoms; they got extra recs'...they did absolutely everything "right"...so it's just plain wrong to suggest that some lack of effort on Andi's or Andison's part was responsible for the shut-out from the WLs. Hindsight is 20-20. Certainly, both Andi & Andison are looking at the process differently this year. But last year, when it was happening, both of them were doing absolutely everything they could think of, and were being cheered on throughout here on CC...</p>
<p>Bottom line: it was a very painful situation...and one of those 'deus ex machina' events where the stars aligned badly and nothing worked to get to a positive outcome (altho an argument could be made that Andison's gap year shaped up so well that maybe he is the big winner from this after all)...it's wrong, I believe, to tell students and others on this thread that if enough effort is expended, they "will" reverse a negative outcome. I can happen, but it sure isn't guaranteed. </p>
<p>And that is the whole point of this thread...bad luck CAN happen...you can apply to 8 schools, all of which want an "extra something" ("left-handed oboe-playing") that you don't have. So, it's wise to have a "sure thing" (I do like that phrase better than "safety"), both in terms of admit and in terms of finances. Most kids won't "need" that "sure thing" (altho if the process works "right," many will choose it over their less sure thing admission offers)...but some will. And those that do will save themselves lots of pain if they factor that in up front...</p>
<p>And one last thought: It's worth considering whether a gap year, properly planned, might actually be some kids' "safety"...??? Andison's gap year is certainly an enriching, rewarding, wonderful experience (or so it appears at this stage)...if Andison had known what this year would offer at the time he did his first round of applications, would he have (happily) taken the risk? One has to wonder...and I guess to some degree the answer depends on what he chooses to do w/applications this year, and how he views his list now...</p>
<p>Andi, is it too soon to share his list? If not, would you, and would you comment on whether you think his gap year is so good that it could have served as his "safety" when he was doing his apps last year? I kind of think only the perspective of one who has "been there" can really answer this question!</p>
<p>Scheduling the visit far enough in advance is a great idea.</p>
<p>Andi, this was a great cautionary story. I would suggest that you apply to Tufts on the next go around, and use this tale in your essay. If you make your interest known to Tufts, you should not only get admitted there,but with your stats, you should get merit aid.</p>
<p>In addition, you might even want to apply to several schools using early action. Notice, I didn't say early decision because this will lock you in.</p>
<p>Do something cool in your gap year that you can write about.
Please tell us where you finally end up going. I would love to know how this story ends.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Our large public school offers no guidance -- we are out there on our own.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>atlantamom~</p>
<p>Welcome to CC!!!!!!! I just wanted to let you know that we were in your shoes last year. My son attended a large public high school in an area where VERY few kids even apply out of state. As it turned out, of the school's 444 grads, fewer than 10 went out of state and those 8 included someone who chose a culinary institute in a neighboring state. Our GC was neither particularly knowledgeable about (nor supportive of) applications to elite and/or other out-of-state schools, and we were very much on our own.</p>
<p>So, I came to CC, asked questions, and read extensively. Many very knowledgeable and helpful people assisted me throughout our process, and in the end, we had very good results. These were, of course, as much due to good fortune as they were due to our efforts, but my point is that it CAN be done, and many people here at CC will be here to assist and answer questions for you.</p>
<p>I wish your son the absolute best of luck as he begins this stressful and challenging process. Have your son take andi's invaluable advice and then follow his heart--we'll be pulling for you both! ~berurah</p>
<p>It seems to me Andi's problems can be traced to the fact that:</p>
<p>1) Wait lists for Ivy's and like schools are buy anf large frauds. These schools let in more kids students than they have room for and are pretty close to the number. They usually get to where they want to be, by going stingy or generous on financial aid packages to students they've already admitted. Many don't even take a single kid off the wait list.</p>
<p>2) Andi's school had a crappy college advisory staff. Any CA worth a damn should have seen his exposure and insisted he correct it.</p>
<p>Hey, here's a hook for his next application: How about a 15-20 minute presentation about what happened, and hiving him go around to high schools, addressing assembies.</p>
<p>Thanks for the welcom, Berurah! I've read some of your posts and want to commend you on your warmth and support of Andi and Andison. We need all the help we can get and I know I will be involved in number of discussions as this process continues.</p>
<p>Andi, I am sooo happy to read of your son's gap-year agenda! Or maybe I am envious; it sounds fabulous! And now when people ask where he's going, you say something like, "currently MIT," which of course is incredible and I'm sure will be a great addition, or a great start, to his college experience. And he is still developing his talents and using them which is great too. I honestly don't know how he is fitting it all in but I just know that more good things will come. These twists and turns are getting him somewhere, and it's an interesting ride, to say the least, isn't it? </p>
<p>It is so good of you to share with the newbies (look at the numbers, people!), but the rehashing makes me wince. Your resilience is amazing. </p>
<p>All the best to you and your son, Andi! </p>
<p>(Glad to hear that those at DUKE are happy too!)</p>
<p>I think you/w Andi should write an article about this in Reader's Digest or something.</p>
<p>atlantamom~</p>
<p>Andi and I "met" when our sons were both applicants to Yale in the EA round last fall. We have been through a great deal together, and I feel a strong connection to both her and her fabulous, talented son. </p>
<p>I do hope that you take advantage of all that CC has to offer, especially given your GC situation. The information you learn here will enable you to function as a capable advocate for your son during this process. I look forward to hearing about his application process and his results this spring (or fall, if he applies early!). Again, I wish you both the best of luck! ~berurah</p>
<p>(and, ahem, thanks cricket!)</p>
<p>Wanna free up some PM space, cricket?:-)</p>
<p>Andi,
You have done a great service by sharing your son's experiences again. Thank you. I want to stress that Andi's son's experience is not the first time this has happened here on CC. It has happened to others in past years as well.</p>
<p>I hope that EVERYONE reading this thread will take Andi's message from heart: build your list from the bottom up. It is VERY easy to fall in love with name brand schools at the top of the rankings - they're familiar names, they have the glow of prestige, etc. It is harder to fall in love with the excellent schools out there that you, or your friends and family, may not yet have heard of. </p>
<p>I cringe every time I see a thread here that starts "help me find safety schools!" --- Safety and match schools should not be something you tack on after you've picked your dream schools. Find them first, fall in love with them first, then add a few well chosen reach schools. No matter how qualified you are, schools that admit less than 20% of students are NOT match schools for anyone. Be smart. Be safe.</p>
<p>Very well said!</p>
<p>Floridatonyc notes,"I think you/w Andi should write an article about this in Reader's Digest or something."</p>
<p>Response: That would be a fantastic idea. The article should also contain the moral about applying to some safeties. If he gets it published, it should greatly help his admission's chances.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I've been around college discussion forums for at least ten years,
[/quote]
Youre giving away your age, Roger. How can anyone survive the applications process for that long??</p>
<p>poetsheart
[quote]
Also, how does one handle teacher recommendations when one is no longer a high school student?
[/quote]
We got copies before the end of school last year. Although the recs at our school are usually confidential, they obviously needed to make an exception.</p>
<p>nyumom
[quote]
As I said before, most parents that I know would have never allowed a situation like this to get out of hand, and if it did, they would do everything in their power to rectify it.
[/quote]
Trust me. I did everything and more. If theres no room, theres no room. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The idea of Andi's storming college presidents' offices and demanding that they rectify their "mistakes" in rejecting or waitlisting her S sounds like a scenerio that would end her S's chances of ever being admitted to those colleges.
[/quote]
Northstarmom.</p>
<p>Yep, again. There was one school that he hung onto until the middle of June. What would be the point of burning his bridges by alienating the entire admissions office. The admissions office is now happy to have him re-apply.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Just because others from his h.s. got in with lower stats doesn't mean the adcoms blew it. While Andi's S sounds like an outstanding applicant, factors that we're not aware of may have tipped the adcoms in others' favor.
[/quote]
Northstarmom</p>
<p>Northstarmom is correct . As a poster last year pointed out (jonri, but please correct if Ive butchered this) there is a law of supply and demand regarding the student body. Andison chose this school because its known for its music opportunities. He felt he would have a lot to give and to gain from the environment. HOWEVER from the schools point of view, the likely felt that the had quite enough musicians. They would probably preferred him if he had been a weight lifter or something else that they get fewer of. I think this was an important lesson in strategy regarding selecting a safety school also.</p>
<p>mommamia
[quote]
It does sound like his college counselor should work for fema!
[/quote]
<strong>lol</strong> Thats great. Well she was probably better educated than Brown, but like him, she was totally new to the job. In fact I distinctly remember her saying last September that andison was her second recommendation! Ah, in hindsight.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And that is the whole point of this thread...bad luck CAN happen...you can apply to 8 schools, all of which want an "extra something" ("left-handed oboe-playing") that you don't have.
[/quote]
overanxiousmom. Thats what everyone should post on their fridge doors.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And one last thought: It's worth considering whether a gap year, properly planned, might actually be some kids' "safety"...??? Andison's gap year is certainly an enriching, rewarding, wonderful experience (or so it appears at this stage)...if Andison had known what this year would offer at the time he did his first round of applications, would he have (happily) taken the risk? One has to wonder...and I guess to some degree the answer depends on what he chooses to do w/applications this year, and how he views his list now...</p>
<p>Andi, is it too soon to share his list? If not, would you, and would you comment on whether you think his gap year is so good that it could have served as his "safety" when he was doing his apps last year? I kind of think only the perspective of one who has "been there" can really answer this question!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There was a point last fall when I asked him if he would consider taking a gap year. He wouldnt consider it but its understandable that when youre in the thick of it as a high school senior with a full life is, he couldnt sit back and think outside the box. Once he was FORCED to think of it, he discovered that he could really do some very exciting things and also some soul searching without the pressure of SATs, senior grades etc. Regarding using a gap year as a safety, I would say that it would unquestionably be better to get accepted to a safety and then decide to do a gap year instead. I think that no matter how you slice it, getting into nowhere hurts. </p>
<p>I guess theres no getting around the issue of having that safety school! Back to point one again!!</p>
<p>Regarding how he approaches his list this year- I so wish I could tell you that its easier the second time around!!! But alas, sob, its not! Decisions regarding ED, EA etc. just add to the complications. Of course were both way wiser and there will be no fiasco this time around, but its just truly not that much easier. If I put my true feelings about the process here they would be censored. So Ill leave it up to your imaginations.</p>
<p>Taxguy
[quote]
I would suggest that you apply to Tufts on the next go around, and use this tale in your essay.
[/quote]
Im getting a great laugh out of this although I assume you didnt mean it as a joke??? Tufts the namesake of Tufts Syndrome. I would hope the adcoms there would appreciate the irony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But would they admit him if he didnt swear his allegiance by applying ED I ?????</p>
<p>atlantamom welcome to the wonderful world of college admissions! Well enjoy going thru this with you.</p>
<p>As one who has reviewed freshman applications and other gifted program applications, I can tell you that almost everyone who applies to the A list choices look similar in terms of the areas people have discussed. For me, I already knew what the grades, scores, activities, recommendation letters etc. would look like as well as many of the essays - So first you look at balance - if i have 10 males with great scores and 3 females with lesser scores - I will take more of the females who apply at lower levels - to balance. I am sure that at some schools, points are allocated for interest - but Andi's sons year off will probably give him far more points toward the school of his interest than any of his other qualities - and he should write about the rejection and the work he has done during the year - he immediately becomes a stand out among all those other apps. I would look at a student with a learning problem who has battled through to get to college in comparison to the person who has it all - Admissions officers also know that what we use to predict a positive college outcome is poor in most respects - so anything that makes the student different or special gets more review than all the high grades, high scores, extra curr., musical talent etc... The reviews I did showed that every kid had those - it was the ones who overcame something - who struggled that caught my attention as an addition to a freshman class.
One other comment - while coming from the Warton School or the best med school may make a difference in some real world outcomes - the people who are often the most accomplished are those that went to podunk U. I have a phd from a non ivy college, yet I have a job at an ivy - no one asks where I got the degree - they review my accomplishments and knowledge.
Well, a bit wordy - hope this is helpful to someone.</p>
<p>acohenphd andison and I were just recently talking about the idea of his using that topic- the rejections/gap yr. for an essay mainly because several people have suggested it to him. I personally find it a little scarey. Would an admissions person view this as an attempt to gain sympathy? Would they get a subliminal message that he must be a loser that no one wanted? I can see the value of writing about a struggle and overcoming an obstacle, but THIS obstacle in particular? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts after putting some more reflection on it.<br>
And how would he come across- as someone who was too arrogant and thought he'd get into the best schools? (or as the poster blaw referred to him as a "precious overachiever") Or as someone who was clueless and got caught up in a process that didn't work for him? In that respect would he sound as if he were criticizing the admissions system that the admissions officers work for?
I'd very much like hearing your take on that and others' thoughts as well.</p>
<p>Andi,
I had to laugh when you said your true feelings would be censored. I know I am not over it, OK>>>!!! and I am a cyber distant acquaintance. Despite all, you are thinking and acting with charm, strength, lucidity, humor and balance, so hang in there....</p>
<p>I am not a person with job experience in admissions. But I personally would like to see him do his personal essays just like everyone else..with an eye to the topic offered as a chance to reveal something about himself creatively. Get some feedback on essays after written...my S finished his the hour before the postmark was due. Although the unpolished parts may have made them seem more genuine..
I think April 2005 would be addressed in a way that would come across as straightforward and relevant --not as a plea for leniency---in a supplemental essay that would shed light on his Gap Year beginnings, but you may not choose to do supplemental essays everywhere. I also think that the Interview is a place where this story can be told and heard and understood without swamping any boats. In person this rare experience could or could not come up depending on how things flow...and it would not necessarily weigh the interview down...because in person, all will be so much more clear. Nonverbal is so eloquent and I am confidant that your son will also cover subjects that have nothing to do with last spring and have more to do with his love for learning and his future.</p>
<p>I really don't want you to worry that anyone is going to think that he was arrogant. No one ever thought that, even those Ivy adcoms and those match school adcoms. His applications to all of those institutions were not mistakes or out of place whatsoever..he was just missing 2or 3 match schools definitely looking for his profile. There was NOTHING arrogant about his application list of yesterday...and it is easy to see why you felt you had at least one good match school in the mix. </p>
<p>anyway..take care and thanks for getting today's newbies and new parents to rethink their list a bit more conservatively. It is great to
"read" you again.</p>