Son is really torn between the two schools – USC Thornton and Berklee. Has had lessons at both, really likes the faculty. Money is equal. Likes Boston better than LA; likes the weather in LA over Boston. Thornton has a slight edge on the program (classes/curriculum/overall university). Boston is closer to home and one of his best friends will be at NEC.
Teachers and mentors have been no help… “can’t go wrong with either one”… “wow, great sax faculty at both”… “dude, you’ll do great at either one”…
Any thoughts? Insight? Would be grateful for anything that helps tip the scale! BM in Jazz Studies at both; he plays saxophone.
DD was not instrumental or jazz, but making the decision came down to a “gut” feel. She stood on campus (even in just mentally) and imagined being there. Her choice felt right and the other choice felt like there might be regret in not choosing the other. Totally not scientific.
@Singersmom07, we are so past being logical or scientific! Lol… he would be thrilled with a gut preference. He says he can see himself at both and, if a decision were made for him, he’s pretty sure he’d be happy at either.
Berklee was his first audition back in December and it actually wasn’t one of his top choices going in, so he thought maybe his impression was skewed because he had treated it so casually. So he re-visited last week, had a lesson with one of the high-profile teachers. Came home encouraged but, still, no clarity.
Honestly, he was ready to flip a coin last night…
I think Thornton will offer more choices to him.
But campus vibe is very different, does he really have no preference ?
Well, if he flips a coin and likes the results he is fine. If he does not like the results that tells you.
What kind of “choices” do you mean, exactly?
He honestly can’t decide. He’s comfortable in Boston as a whole. I lived in Boston for a long time and we lived there until he was 5yo. We have old friends there. He likes the feel of the city. But Berklee doesn’t have a “campus” feel. We live in Ann Arbor now (University of Michigan) and the whole feel of USC, campus, football games, etc., seems familiar. I also have friends in the area; we spent a little time around Santa Monica / Venice Beach when we were out there for his auditions. Something to be said for going to the beach in February when both Boston and Ann Arbor are dealing with snow storms.
There’s also the non-music aspect. He wonders if he’ll get tired of going to school with and being surrounded by only music students. He has a mix of friends now. On the other hand, he has a few non-music friends who will be attending USC next year and is a little intimidated at the prospect of attending general classes at their caliber. Not really a matter of whether he can do the work and keep up, but he doesn’t want those classes taking up his time and focus. Of course, that said, when he looks through the course catalog, those classes sound intriguing.
He’s had lessons with both George Garzone and Bob Mintzer. He would, frankly, like to study with both…
I would go for Thornton–I feel it is a more competitive and high caliber program. I think it’s a much smaller enrollment so he’ll have more opportunities and more of a chance to stand out.
One thought, Berklee is a great school, but sometimes it isn’t a bad thing to get outside your comfort zone, so maybe going to USC, which is different in many ways, might work better for him in growing. Assuming the faculty at USC meet his needs (and I would be surprised if they didn’t), being there may not be a bad thing for him.And of course the weather is much better at USC:). I will say that given the caliber of both programs, that whatever decision he makes won’t be a matter of one is great, the other is terrible, it likely will be that wherever he goes, there will be things he likes, things he doesn’t like, and that is natural.
@choirsandstages, he’s considered what you’ve written and keeps going in circles about the implications of the big vs small pond. Is it actually better to stand out in a small pond if you’re not good enough to stand out in the big pond? He did think that one of the advantages would be access to the best teachers, which is one of the reasons he re-visited Berklee for a lesson. He wanted to know whether he has potential to be one of the big fish in the big pond.
The other question he’s struggling with is the east vs west coast, with respect to jazz.
I am no expert on Jazz (and maybe others can weigh in), but from what I know of it I suspect if you mean access to gigs and such, that Boston and LA likely would have similar levels of access, from what I know of things.
In terms of the big fish in the big pond (Berklee I assume) to big fish in a small pond, I think with these two schools that you will find that they are both high level. USC may be a smaller program, but they are not easy to get into, nor is Berklee, so this isn’t like choosing (using classical music) juilliard where the student will be one of many great musicians, or going to school B, well respected, but where he would be one of the best students in the place. I would say that Berklee and USC are going to be very similar in how he would fit in, based on the descriptions.
If it were my son (and I went through this), it will come down to teacher and which one he wanted to study with more, maybe weighed with other factors like the campus and so forth.
I read a post on another thread about Berklee which said you can’t choose the teacher with whom you study. Will he be happy working with the other teachers for a few years if he doesn’t get right into the studio of his choosing?
By choices I meant diversity of classes outside his major and potential career exploration (due to the entertainment industry in LA.)
Larger campus and greater variety of student profiles could be a plus or a minus for him too.
I assume your east vs, west query has to do with the stylistic distinctions. That in fact was the basis of my S’s refusal to even consider looking at west coast schools. I, a non-musician, felt he was being, in this day and age, silly, but I stand corrected. He subsequently taught in a program through which he met a number of USC players. When they come to perform in NYC, they often call him to sit in as a sideman. Having attended some of these performances, I have to admit there is an east coast and west coast, for want of a better term, “accent.” I wish I was more qualified to describe the stylistic differences in more illustrative terms, but my music vocabulary and knowledge is not worthy of the task. Neither is “better”, but they are different. It is a significant consideration, because if your S is anything like mine, his sound will be profoundly effected by his teacher(s). I would listen long and hard to the recordings of the teachers under consideration and make that a part of the equation.
Seriously consider the opportunity that expanding a musicians horizons bring. If he goes cross country to study he expands his marketability enormously. He will have connections in the East and West. Since I am a UCLA alum , this is very hard for me to actually recommend that “other” school cross town, but here goes. :-& I think USC might be his best option.
There, I said it.
I have no idea where he should go. Many great comments above. Maybe he just needs to stew a little longer. In the end he’ll have to pick one. And you’ll know where he’s going on 5/01. There’s nothing wrong with him deciding last minute. I’m just wondering if he really needs more information or just more time.
My son finally chose Thornton usc, over UNT and Miami Frost, also BM jazz studies (piano). I’m originally a new Englander, love Boston, but he didn’t apply to berklee or NEC because, as your son mentioned, he didn’t want to go to school with just musicians. Opportunities abound in both places. But the college experience will be very different depending on which he chooses.
I don’t think of USC as a big fish in small pond situation. I think of it as a bunch of big fishes in a small pond. 
To second what @musicprnt said above, with whom he studies is the driver. While he may feel comfortable with both teachers, look really closely at those studios. There will be differences.
Which teacher is more present on campus? Sometimes teachers are star-studded, but that makes them in demand, in the professional gigging world. Which teacher offers what your son is looking for? Are there studio classes, with all the teacher’s students, and how are they run? Some teachers have a very organized and directed approach to both their lessons, and to studio class, and others are more free-flowing, not as much structure. It hugely will color your son’s experience at the school. And also look at the courses required for each school; the type of classes and the workload will not be the same at these two schools. We did sample lessons at quite a few conservatories. With a couple of teachers second sample lessons were hugely important. One teacher who initially was thought to be an excellent match turned out to be more suited as Mr. Krabs!
One other thought: you said that the cost at each school is equal. I’m not suggesting that you haven’t done this, but many of us have gotten caught up in the initial financial aid offers that we forgot to make sure we understood how the schools handle years 2-4; are scholarships automatically renewed, and what GPA is necessary to renew a scholarship; what happens if tuition goes up, can you ask for more scholarship, etc. Good luck!
If it really comes down to a total deadlock, this might not be the worst way to decide it. This is a “no wrong choice” situation, so either school can be the right one. And once the decision is made, however it’s made and whichever way it goes, I think it’s important never to look back or have second thoughts. Just look forward to the next adventure.
Ultimately, it’s a very personal choice, but here are a few thoughts for what they’re worth:
- While the teacher is not unimportant, I think one’s teacher in jazz may be less important than in classical. My son has had three different primary instrumental teachers over his four years of college – two concurrently over the last two years – and has benefitted greatly from all three. Each has offered a different perspective and style. You don’t need to be locked into a single teacher, and so long as the school has a strong faculty overall, you will be able to find a teacher or teachers who will help you develop. My son has also had four different ensemble coaches, each of whom has also helped with his development. In terms of the choice between Berklee and Thornton, Berklee is larger and has more depth, but both have (and no doubt will continue to have) strong faculty.
- At least in jazz, I think it is equally important, maybe even moreso, to have opportunities to play constantly with as broad a range of other jazz musicians as you can. Being in an urban setting helps with this, as you’re not confined just to the musicians at your school. My son plays regularly with students not only from his own school but also from most of the music schools in NYC and the NYC area, as well as with some professional jazz musicians who ask him to sub when their regular pianist is unavailable for a gig. He’s also developed informal mentoring relationships with a few older jazz musicians that have been wonderful for him. I’d give the edge on this factor to Berklee, just because there are not only a huge number of musicians to play with at Berklee, but there’s also good cross-pollination between Berklee and NEC, and Boston has a fair number of playing opportunities for young jazz musicians outside of school. But certainly there will be opportunities in LA as well. (I don’t think either Boston or LA compares to NYC, but I assume your son has ruled out New School either for cost or other reasons).
- So long as you’re in an environment where there are good teachers and good fellow musicians, the primary determinant of your development is going to be your own inner drive and passion. Both Berklee and Thornton offer sufficiently good teachers and fellow musicians to create an environment where your son can develop and thrive, which is why I describe this as a “no wrong choice” situation.
- Having a broader academic environment may or may not be important, but if it is, then USC has the clear advantage over Berklee. My son’s friends at standalone music schools say their general education courses tend to be pretty bad. And that the students generally don’t take them very seriously. (They actually use harsher language than that, but I’m trying to be circumspect.) It’s probably the primary factor that led my son to end up choosing the college route rather than the music school route.
- USC also has the clear (no pun intended) advantage when it comes to weather. That said, there are some people who like seasons and say they hate the fact that LA doesn’t have any.
- While it was addressing a slightly different situation, this post from StacJip offers some good thoughts in the context of choosing between schools: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19515492/#Comment_19515492.
Good luck with the decision, and don’t feel like your son can’t take all the time he’s been given to make it. My son made his decision on the last day of April. 
This is a very personal decision and one only your son can make. Good luck with your son’s decision. Both are great schools and he can’t go wrong. All I can add to this conversation is that my son LOVES Berklee and can’t imagine himself anywhere else. Boston is a great place for college students and very easy to get around. He enjoys the vibe and the feel of the school and the city. There are so many talented kids at Berklee and he thrives in it. The choices of musical styles and interests are abundant. If your son thinks he may want to take more Liberal Arts classes, Berklee is part of a consortium that provides many opportunities. It is, however, all music all the time and isn’t for everyone. If he is not sure that music is his passion, he would certainly have more opportunities at USC. Some students do come to that realization as soon as the first semester. Good luck to you! Congratulations on such an awesome problem to have to choose between such 2 great schools!