"Those ECs are weak...."- So what's good?

<p>I'm glad I'm not the only one intimadated by ECs. I'm in a good number of clubs (thankfully all in the same field/area of study), but other than a few college courses and a summer program, my volunteer work is like, the library and passing out bikes to impoverished kids. </p>

<p>The past few days I've been racking my brain trying to of ways I can do outstanding volunteer work in my AOS, but I guess this thread made me feel a little better about it since I'm primarily applying to well-ranked schools that are still below YHSP. (GWU, UT; my reach is Georgetown so I guess I still appreciate the advice here though, lol)</p>

<p>One thing I have to agree with is focus. The "Ivy League" doesn't seem to reward people who dabble in things here and there to figure out what they like-- it's more of a "I LOVE ART and therefore I will volunteer at art museums and tutor kids in art and get a job in art and sell my own art and take a bazillion art community college classes" kind of approach. Which they're entitled to do, I guess.</p>

<p>Jimbob, if you know eagle scouts and you know the kind of hard work and dedication that went into getting their badge, why would you make inflammitory remarks like that?</p>

<p>Yeah sure there's a few bad apples who are 13 and can't lead a group of people if their life depended on it, but why then does that mean that being an Eagle Scout isn't worth it's recognition?</p>

<p>Some friend you are - do you think your friends who are eagle scouts would appreciate calling it "crap"?</p>

<p>That's great that the grandson of the founder doesn't approve of it - he didn't found it, he's a totally different person. APH said that he doesn't agree with it either.</p>

<p>I think the point being made with Harvard is that they receive State and Federal money as well, however they aren't being made to take people who they think aren't "morally straight".</p>

<p>Strykur makes a good point though. The true test of your belief in personal freedoms is if you think that people should be free to say what they want to say, even if you disagree with it. The BSA does place a strong emphasis on God and religion. CHURCHES ARE TAX EXEMPT BUT THEY DO NOT ALLOW GAY PRIESTS, WHY AREN'T PEOPLE UP IN ARMS ABOUT THAT? Did you know that Churches and other tax-exempt religious organizations sponsor some of the biggest political activists and even make campaign donations? What happened to the separation of church and state? The point is that there are a lot worse things happening in this country than the BSA, and to belittle the accomplishment of becoming an Eagle Scout is a little unnerving to me for the supposed Future Leaders of Our Nation.</p>

<p>im not a future leader of our nation...im a kid who wants to get a college education and succeed in life, and be kind to others even if they like people of the same gender</p>

<p>Jimbob no matter what way you slice it you're going to be a part of the future of our nation, and you claim you just want everyone to get along - start with not spitting on the reputations of eagle scouts.</p>

<p>Oh and btw Stykur - In your "in the name of free speech" list you listed "no matter how... false such speech may be".</p>

<p>Remember slander and liable?</p>

<p>what the hell...i love my eagle scout friends...i just won't categorically defend eagle scouts. i refuse to believe all eagle scout badges awarded are deserved.
and my point still stands that the BSA are really not being very accepting and I don't understand HOW they can say that gay people can't be ethical role models</p>

<p>Getting along with everyone and making the world right are two very conflicting goals.</p>

<p>Not all eagle awards are deserved, I grant you that, I think that there should be stricter guidelines about it; however, a very slim percentage of boyscouts become eagle scouts, and that should tell you something. I'm not aware of the exact percentage, but I think it's under 5. Just to get to the application, they have to complete something like 21 merit badges, as well as community service, and serve leadership positions within their troop. If some kid took the easy way out and just built a bench for his project and made eagle, more power to him, but largely such things aren't approved. But the point is, the project isn't the sole factor in becoming an eagle scout. It takes years of dedication, which is what colleges and employers look for even when doing another EC - sticking with it. It takes a lot of hard work to earn the merit badges and do the community service and leadership requirements. It takes a lot of planning and organization - though building a bench may be simple enough, writing up a report that makes it seem like an invaluable asset would be harder than someone making a building handicap accessible, where the value is intrinsic.</p>

<p>The BSA is not being very accepting. Neither is Harvard or Georgetown. I got three rejection notifications from Georgetown, and I was quite sure that after two they were just rubbing it in. The US Senate isn't very accepting. You know, life in general isn't very accepting. Most places you won't just walk in and everyone will love you and just accept you for who you are. Where's the protest against society? Where's the protest against organized religion?</p>

<p>You don't want to be a leader, but you want everyone to somehow get along. Step up to the plate my friend and take a swing, people have been trying for centuries, and you don't even want to be a leader in that cause.</p>

<p>Here's a hint to getting more people to get along - people will always have different viewpoints and people will never be able to understand the other side of things. People kill over these things (RE: Palestine RE: Bosnia RE: Iran RE: Kuwait RE: Native Americans RE: Salem Witch Trial RE: Holocaust RE: Spanish Inquisition RE: War) and have done so since the dawn of time. </p>

<p>If you want people to be happy and get along, then de-emphasize opinions and points of view.</p>

<p>Otherwise, looks like you're going to be sucked into either a leadership position, or shutting the hell up. Don't be one of those jerks who sits and complains without doing anything.</p>

<p>From Stonecold:"total lie that you need ECs to get into top schools</p>

<p>my ECs were mediocre at best, and i got into my reaches (being a little under average in all other areas, sat, gpa etc) </p>

<p>your essay matters 100x more than ECs"</p>

<p>Yet the below was posted by StoneCold March 30. I suggest taking that poster's EC advice with a grain of salt. </p>

<p>"rejected: penn,brown,tufts,georgetown, duke
waitlist: cornell, BC
in: johns hopkins, nyu, colgate"
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=2053839#post2053839%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=2053839#post2053839&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Oh, my. If I'd seen that list of ECs before I'd applied, I would have had a breakdown. I've worked hard for four years of high school - VERY hard. I've been involved in several activities that I love, and that I put a lot of time into. However, none of them come close to the level you suggest. Oh, I won a writing award? Sorry kid, you can't be a talented or motivated writer unless you were published in a prominent magazine or newspaper ... </p>

<p>I'm not saying I was at all an outstanding applicant, but I got into an Ivy and several prestigious LACs with my record, and academics were probably my biggest weakness. Obviously they found it sufficient that I dedicated my hours to preparing a case for Mock Trial and a presentation for Fed Challenge. Honestly, don't scare people. I haven't met anyone who's done anything at that level yet who is going to school with me. Let's not get carried away.</p>

<p>People should calm down about the ECs and take the recommendations of other posters with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>I got into 7/10 schools I applied to, including MIT, which I now attend. Trust me, I wasn't out there solving world hunger or anything like that. My ECs that I consider relevant included:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>4 years of varsity cross country (I wasn't incredibly good at it, a little above average, but I ran more miles in practice than anyone else on the team), co-captain as a senior</p></li>
<li><p>4 years of Quick Recall (the Kentucky version of Quiz Bowl and the like)</p></li>
<li><p>3 years of Science Bowl, co-captain as a senior</p></li>
<li><p>2 years of Science Olympiad, some state-level individual medals and a national top 25</p></li>
<li><p>12 summers of summer league swimming and 6 summers of summer league diving. Not especially successful at either, but damn, it was fun!</p></li>
<li><p>Volunteer springboard diving judge for my summer league starting when I was 15</p></li>
<li><p>Worked on the state ACLU's post-9/11 Education Committee as a senior for a while. It was kind of an adventure. There were committee members who wouldn't host meetings because they were afraid of violence if their neighbors found out they were affiliated with the ACLU. It gave me some interesting perspective on politics.</p></li>
<li><p>Babysat my brother, 12 and a half years younger, for what probably came out to at least 15 hours in an average week, while my mom went to law school and my stepdad worked.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>See? No published novels, international academic olympiads, student government, or 40 hours a week volunteering in a soup kitchen. No honor societies. Some of the ECs that I know of that my friends at MIT did include ballet, guitar, designing circuits in the basement with one's dad, axe-throwing competitions (I swear I didn't make that up), and working as a shift supervisor in a factory.</p>

<p>"Worked on the state ACLU's post-9/11 Education Committee as a senior for a while. "</p>

<p>I'm sure that made your application stand out a great deal.
Your overall achievements fit what I suggested before as "excellent" ECs.</p>

<p>You have state/national awards for Quiz Bowl
An unusual state-level accomplishment in being on the state's education committee, which is a big accomplishment for a h.s. student</p>

<p>In addition, you have a very longterm commitment to athletics with strong leadership there, too.</p>

<p>Your ECs are clearly beyond what many students post who want to go to places like Ivies.</p>

<p>I hate reading these EC posts. They make me feel horrible. I'm on the fencing team, and I take private lessons, and I have for all my years of HS. Yet I'm not even on varsity, I'm not a captain. Why? Because there are people who have been doing it for a zillion years. I've done karate for almost 7 years. I'm not a black belt, I'm a green belt. My teacher, who is extremely dedicated to the sport, said that it took him 7 years himself. And yet around me, there are tons of kids who got black belts at age 10. My favorite sport is sailing, but aside from camp I really have no way to participate during the year. Everything I'm interested in happens to be scheduled at conflicting times (ie: I used to do theater stuff, but fencing and the play are both every day in the winter). I would rather have a good time with my friends in cooking club and be pres of Shakespeare Club (I like but don't really love Shakespeare) with great members and a great advisor than stay with the French theater club, which turned out to really stink (I love French). I am not from rural Texas, I don't have to babysit siblings or work all week, so apparently I'm screwed. I hate ECs in admissions.</p>

<p>how is RSI an outstanding EC? All you do is apply there and get in...</p>

<p>RSI is extremely competitive and in order to get in, you had to have great ECs to start with.</p>

<p>yeah RSI accepts VERY few people.</p>

<p>There is a book called something like, "How to win at college" - it outlines how you should spend your time in order to be most efficient. Its advice is very applicable to high school. Achieving to the level that Northstarmom described involves giving up part of one's social life - it is simply not possible to excel at such a high level AND have a strong social life. My social life certainly exists - but it's not to the extent of a few of my friends. </p>

<p>On this site and other sites like admission chances . com I see kids urging others to diversify - to get involved with more activities when they are extremely invovled in a few. Although this has been mentioned before in this thread, I want to stress that gaining awards in few activities is really the way to go. Let's look at this from the standpoint of Harvard:</p>

<p>In Harvard's viewbook or maybe it was in a tour/info session (I don't remember) they say that they accept 25% hardcore academics, 25% 'nicely lopsided' applicants, and 50% well rounded kids. The thing is, many times, if one feels like they'd fall into the 'nicely lopsided' group, and the college disagrees, they'll probably end up in the well rounded group, where they'll stand out a lot because of their great EC accomplishments. Clearly, the well rounded kids are being accepted, but the things Northstarmom indicated are great aids in getting accepted.</p>

<p>About the internship EC. Finding simply an internship would be pretty easy...but (probly a stupid question) does finding an internship in my career goal's field make a big difference?</p>

<p>"Has created and organized a major service project such as getting a Habitat house built ,raising at least $10,000 or starting a nonprofit that clearly was started by the student, not their parents"</p>

<p>This is listed as one of the "outstanding ECs" by Northstarmom on the first page. There have been many questions about how you document such an EC in order to get your message across to admissions, so maybe I can help.</p>

<p>I had an EC that fell in this category. My family adopted my sister from China two years ago and I had been doing some things to support China's orphanages (helping adopted children retain their Chinese language, sending boxes of goods to orphanages, etc.) I eventually got the idea to organize a fundraiser to raise money - a bowling event I organized raised $1,400 and a luncheon raised $1,300. </p>

<p>Later that year, I organized a golf tournament event that raised $11,400. This was my major EC that I stressed in my application. I gave information such as how many items were donated for our silent auction, how many golfers we had, how many dinner guests we had, how much money we raised, how many hours I put in, how many hours my student volunteers put in, etc. On top of that, I sent them our event program (which included 20+ pages that entailed our sponsors and silent auction items) as well as a front page local newspaper article that covered our event. I also discussed my attachment to China, often in the context of my fundraising endeavors, heavily in my college essays. But beyond that, and perhaps this was shown through my essays, I really cared about what I was doing. </p>

<p>Essentially, admissions is looking for 4 things when it comes to an EC: achievement, growth, passion, and utility. By achievement I mean the extent of an applicant's accomplishments (think national awards versus state awards). By growth I mean a past record of building on previous accomplishments (think bigger projects, leadership roles, etc.). By passion I mean the genuine desire to participate in this sort of activity long after college admissions is over. By utility I mean the value the EC adds to the university (in this respect, as colleges are foremost academic institutions, academic ECs definitely have an edge here. That's why USAMO holds more weight than, say, placing in a national eating contest).</p>

<p>And, as Northstarmom has stressed vehemently, having great EC's and great stats is by no means a guarantee of acceptance at any of the top programs. For example, I was accepted to Stanford but rejected by HYP. Easily I could have been rejected from all 4.</p>

<p>So above all, be realistic. But at the same time there is a certain pride that comes with going out of your way to do something spectacular. Whether or not a college gives your efforts the recognition they deserve, it shouldn't matter as long as you truly enjoy what you are doing.</p>

<p>"This is listed as one of the "outstanding ECs" by Northstarmom on the first page. There have been many questions about how you document such an EC in order to get your message across to admissions..."</p>

<p>Ways of documenting such ECs as organizing the building of a Habitat for Humanity house:</p>

<p>Under the "offices held," you write a brief explanation of what you accomplished. For instance: "SGA president. Organized the raising of $50,000 to build a Habitat for Humanity House."</p>

<p>and/or focus your essay on how you organized that project</p>

<p>and/or get a supplemental recommendation from the Habitat director or ask the teacher who advised the activity to include in their recommendation information about what you did; ask your GC to provide such info in their recommendation.</p>

<p>Include a newspaper article about the project with your application (if the college allows such supplemental materials).</p>

<p>"About the internship EC. Finding simply an internship would be pretty easy...but (probly a stupid question) does finding an internship in my career goal's field make a big difference?"</p>

<p>Probably only if you're applying to a specific technical school such as an engineering school or if you're applying to one of those combined MD/BA programs.</p>