Non- academic is also high. Also this is not including those who dropped out during BS.
Iām assuming these 60 BS/MD students who donāt get to be doctors are part of the 5.2% (2.8 + 2.4) ? 22,500 * 0.053 *.05
Iām seriously trying to understand. Letās get to the rest of the story. So, roughly about 650 MD-only students donāt get to be a doctor after getting admitted to med school the regular route. (22,500 * 0.032 *.90)
Keeping the debate in the context of attrition alone, a whopping 2% difference is why there should be the red tape on BS/MD? What did I miss?
Even after MD (technically doctors!), a good 5% fail their Step 3! Is that right?
For an aspiring physician, Iām convinced that UG or even med school is only half the battle. Go big or go home! 
Assumptions made: 22,500 matriculants into med school. 5% being BS/MD applicants, 90% Regular, another 5% for the MD/MPH, MD/MBA, MD/PHDs
PS: I apologize for the number of posts lately. I suddenly have the time I never had and Iām learning.
2 Likes
@SpeedSkater and any other readers for future,
As I said, this is non stop bashing of this pathway since beginning of this cycle and previous cycles also. Donāt be ruffled by their comments and waste your time arguing, it is of no use. It is only a very few of them out of hundreds of readers of this thread resorting to all this sort of negative propaganda. Ironically one or two of these have their children or close family members taking the same ārisk averseā or ābird at handā options, perhaps ignoring all their wisdom outpourings.
As we can see, a vast majority of the readers on this thread and from reflections on the results thread have chosen to ignore such comments.
1 Like
The number 2.8% is more than twice 1.3% i.e. it is two times the drop out (of medical school) rate for BSMDs compared to regular route as per data due to academic reasons. It is the relative values one should look at, IMO. It is an individualās choice.
Here you go again with false assertions! No one is bashing BSMD pathway and we are all discussing each candidates outcomes and presenting information to help them decide unlike your blind advocacy and incomplete failure stories.
Yes, my brotherās son is in a BSMD program and I am supportive of it since he went to a dual enrollment program, have 2 years college credits and didnāt want to spend 4 years of UG, he didnāt have any T10 admissions and paying full price is not difficult for my brother.
I recommended BSMD to a friendās daughter since she struggled with standardized tests despite 4.0 GPA in an IB program and I was afraid that she may not do well with MCAT. She chose one with no MCAT score requirement. In fact I recommended a consultant who helps with both traditional and BSMD programs and helped her get 3 BSMD programs. So any future applicants looking for a consultant feel free to PM me (I donāt get any kickbacks 
).
Check BS_MD2017ās post in BSMD Experience thread. I met him 4 years back at AMC/RPI interview and we had discussions about same things at that time. He wanted to her D to take HPME or PLME but she chose traditional path and I supported her decision.
on the other hand, you only talks about how great BSMD programs are and how everyone is failing at Ivy leagues. As I pointed few times you never gave full details of your Dās cycle 4 years back and there are no reflections ( *** BS/MD Results For Class of 2017 *** - #37 by rk2017) but you encourage everyone post reflections for the benefit of others! You have been constantly claiming that BSMD students at BU are getting 100% percentile without any prep which no one believes.
Anyway, I am not against you or BSMD but we all should give facts and have a vigorous debate to help new kids and parents rather than coming up with false narratives and claims.
2 Likes
Numbers are always fun!
2 times the probability without looking at the big picture can be silly. By looking at the numbers above, thatās as good as one arguing that doing an MBA along with an MD increases your odds of graduation by 400%.
In general, college dropouts in the US are at 56% while med school is at 97%. While you point out the 1.5% difference between BS/MD and regular MD, Iām looking at the glass almost full at 94.7% of the BS/MD students who graduated.
Me being silly, here are some fun facts to decide if one should pursue it or abandon it based on statistics alone simply because the probabilities are twice or more.
Should I stop being a pedestrian and become a motorcyclist simply because Iāve almost twice the chance to survive? (My dad will love to see this and use it as a defense for his motorcycle.) Lies, damned lies, and statistics indeed!
More stats
1 Like
No need to apologize. We are all here for healthy debate and help each other and help future applicants. I always encouraged students with T10 admissions to carefully weigh the pros and cons and decided for themselves and also share the reflections truthfully.
1 Like
If BS/MD are brightest of batch than that number should be well below traditional route. But that is not the case. This is not hearsay info but rather what is published by AMCAS.
This discussion is not a vindication of anyone choice or for any individual.
Also see MD/PhD attrition for more objective analysis. Barely anyone drops, because hardly any risk averse from BS/MD route goes to MD/PhD. Its cream comes from traditional route and they are the one who makes difference in society by contributing to inventions that rest of MD body follow on to implement, donāt take this as MD has no value, rather an attempt to point out that there are so many bright students who falls for short cuts and sells short their potential, real winners are BS/MD programs, not students.
I wouldnāt go into intelligence of BSMD vs non-BSMD. My theory is some of them got into BSMD due to parental pressures, relaxed too much in UG and found MD to be too grinding (from what all I heard itās very grinding) and couldnāt handle it. Even though some parents and students claim that BSMD allows them freedom from doing things that are needed for application but in realty same students have to compete with students with traditional path with or without gap years who have stronger research and clinical experiences. I know some BSMD students use up all AP/IB/Dual enrollment courses, finishing in 2 years and using 3rd year research but that seems to be minority. I know couple of students who took gap year in 7 year program and finished in 8 years to have stronger application for residency.
Thank you!
Yeah, in my case T10 didnāt warrant the obscene amount of tuition.
Secondly, my level of participation in a sport was a HUGE part of my application. My stats were fine. But, many with full scores did not make T10 or BS/MDs. Replicating the success I had during high school after spending 30-40 hours per week for a sport and hours of volunteering taking valuable time away from academics is something I donāt foresee doing in college. I gave up academics (TJ) once for a sport, and this time it will be the sport for academics. I hope I donāt get crucified here for quitting. Someone dear to me also advised me to know when to quit. Representing my country and participating in the World Cup is my ceiling (Trust me, my odds as a skinny Indian kid to get there were not so rosy! sniff.)
From an opportunity standpoint, Iām really glad that there is a BS/MD option straight from high school and I realize how hard it was to get one guaranteed admission to MD WITH my sport and I can only imagine without. I see the perspective of people why they may see this as a risk-averse decision (without knowing the whole story) and advising me to take a chance. I have taken manyā¦this one, Iām cashing it in! Iāve shared my story as honestly as I can. Future applicants can make a decision based on theirs.
Where is this claim coming from or who did it? The general perception is that any BS/MD or a T20 or med school aspirant is the cream of the crop from their respective communities. Thereās no way to prove one is better than the other and why?!
3 Likes
Well you better ask that question to one dimensional BS/MD cheerleaders.
Exactly it is not one size fit allā¦
This is exactly what I want parents and students to share. You know what got you into BSMD and you know how much that skill will or wonāt help in traditional path and made wise decision. However the BSMD drumbeater here never shared their Cās reflections (not even schools applied) but tells everyone to take BSMD with scary stories.
while you competed in Skating nationally my kid competed in science competitions and have state and national gold and silver medals and also good foundation in computational research. So based on that he figured he can do well in traditional path if he stayed focused and achieved his goal of getting into T5 schools.
That makes sense. Everybody has a unique story!
1 Like
yes, but desi pride prevents some parents from giving true reflections.
This statement is definitely not true- BSMD are great and smart kids but I know tonnes of Indian parents kids ( my IIT group and others) who go to Caltech/MIT/Stanford etc. and are top notch- I can list their accomplishments but is waste of time. Either they will continue in technology or may even try medicine later on.
A good way to figure out is- how many valedictorians join BSMD vs traditional assuming valedictorian is the smartest in that school ( generally she/he is). In my Dā school, no valedictorian has gone to BSMD for past 10 years - it is also possible that either he/she did not know or did not want to be MD.
That said, There are some topnotch in BSMD and there are tonnes in traditional path.
2 Likes
On the contrary, the pool of students applying to BSMD is diverse academically and may have a few valedictorians, but many top students opt for other professions including technology, business, arts and science.
Desi Pride!!
See how Modi runs to hug Trump or when Foreign White guy from Unknown country lands at Bombay/Delhi Airport!!! Compare to China or Japan- Humbleness!!
French are still living in their hypo historical pride when they thought they ruled the world( Africa for sure!)- however, they retain the pride although no one gives a damn!!
What you going to do with Desi Pride!!!
@SpeedSkater It is a very good decision based on financial facts, not to attend an Ivy. One should make decision which is best for them. It seems that representing your country in Olympics did not help you financially. It is a very commendable achievement.
1 Like
I donāt understand what you are contradicting. You said itās not true and then went on to say what I had also said. They are ALL top-notch applicants! 
2 Likes
Great that you have finalized the decision and you have top-notch accomplishments- Keep it up and good luck in your journey. Sports is personal to us and you have commendable accomplishments- Keep it and as my priest dad says- God Bless You.
Most important thing is being happy with whatever decision you choose and you are happy- Thats the only thing that matters. Rest is illusion or Maya!