Tier 1 verses Tier 2

Prep School Admissions
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<p>The tier question comes up so often that I can't help wondering - Once a person finds a top 15 prep to get them into a top 10 university is there then a list of top five professions to be practiced at the top five firms? Do you and your spouse (culled from a list of top 15 available mates) then buy a house in a top 15 zip code and, while summering at one of the top 15 vacation spots, procreate so you can continue the process with the next generation? ;) In this increasingly flat world, do we only include the top 15 schools in the States or do we need to factor in Eton, Le Rosey, etc.</p>

<p>As for the Andover question - based on their 2007 matriculation list (<a href="http://www.andover.edu/cco/matrics/default.asp)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.andover.edu/cco/matrics/default.asp)&lt;/a>, it looks like a few poor slobs ended up at places like Babson and Hollins, even, egads! state schools. By my rough calculation, about 1/3 of the class ended up at the Ivies/Stanford/MIT/Chicago/Williams/Amherst and 2/3 went elsewhere. Of course, I'd argue that that "elsewhere" includes some really great schools that might be perfect for a specific student -- like Babson and Hollins. :)</p>

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<p>Here's something to keep in mind: My graduating class had over 40% matriculate to ivies (ie I went to one of your "tier one" schools), but now in college I feel like kids who went to prep schools and public magnets are pretty evenly represented, and rare. Don't go to a "tier 1" because you think it'll get you into a better college. Every one of the schools offers the same education if you choose to take it. What they differ in is the rest of the experience. The schools where you will participate, engage yourself, and have fun should be your personal tier one. If you pick a school that's less attractive to you but has a stellar reputation, you'll probably get less out of it than you would get from going somewhere you love. (and your college choices will reflect it)</p>

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<p>I think two things determine the tiers. The first is the selectivity of a school based on the % of students accepted and rejected. This is easy to understand. I also think the tiers are set on whether or not a school has a local, regional, national or international reputation. Exeter, Saint Paul's etc. are all internationally known, receive a ton of applications and can be very selective. Figuring out a school's level of reputation is not easy to do or understand.</p>

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<p>sbergman -- Years ago when I went to Columbia Business School, the Dean of Advising had a large sign behind his desk -- "Welcome to the Rat Race." Anyway, I thought you would appreciate that. </p>

<p>I think it's best to look for a school in which you can excel, but not excel without real effort. It's hard to find the right fit, but it's so important. The people who can excel in the right environment generally do well in school and beyond.</p>

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<p>I agree with BurbParent. Rating the "quality of education" at a particular school is something I cannot do without more guideline parameters. For example, the quality of education where the median and average SSAT scores are 92 should be high for a student with an 84 to 99 SSAT, but might be too fast paced and too in-depth for a student scoring 50 to 65 on the SSAT. Conversely, the 94 SSAT scorer might be bored and unchallanged at a school with an average SSAT score of 62. Matching an appropriate school with an appropriate student, simplistically speaking, based on average SSAT scores that are close to the median SSAT scores should result in a higher quality of education for the matched student. One aspect of a quality education should be for the student to be challanged, but not overwhelmed, to nurture intellectual growth. Academically overwhelming a student might cause a loss of self esteem and confusion-- just like tossing a high school quarterback into a starting role in the NFL might do more harm than good.</p>

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<p>icy9ff8 -- I really don't know enough about how ssat scores correlate with school success to conclude that they should be used that way exclusively. I was responding more to the comments made by sbergman. Actually, I think that it is possible for a 99% ssat scorer to be challenged and experience high success at a school with a 70% ssat average, as long as that school offers higher-level classes. </p>

<p>My observation is that once you go beyond the most competitive schools and in the territory of the top 50, there is a broad range of ssat scores. </p>

<p>I really don't know much about sports recruitement to comment to nhfootballer except to say that the most competitive schools don't have a monopoly on chances to top tier colleges. People get there many different routes, but these top colleges routinely look at class rankings or take a look at the courses you took and how well you did in them. So if you can find a school in which you can be in the top 10 - 20 %, which has a strong track record for the athletic recruitment you want, and has a strong track record in college acceptance at the schools you want, you might find yourself in a great position when college comes around.</p>

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<p>My D got very ill her junior year at a private school in Calif., and decided in late March as she was recovering, to apply to boarding school to restart her junior year. Unfortunately, many schools were full, but a couple "top tier" schools were willing to accept her because her numbers were very good. However, when we visited those schools, many of the students plus some teachers seemed very uptight and tense. Maybe it was just the east coast-west coast thing, but one teacher actually yelled at our tour guide, and at another school a worker told us only "the Asian kids" were nice. My D, a self-starter, decided she did not need that competitive environment to succeed, so she chose Tabor Academy, which had a more friendly "feel," and offered all the AP classes she needed/wanted.</p>

<p>This month she was accepted, early action, to Stanford, her first choice. I think it may be because she distinguished herself at Tabor, excelling in her academics and extracurriculars. Also, she may have been lost at a "top tier." Who knows? But just like college, the name doesn't necessarily mean everything. Of course, she is thrilled about Stanford, but she was able to get in while still enjoying high school.</p>

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<p>Thanks for that info. Two of my son's top picks are not considered tier 1, but are great schools for him.</p>

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<p>There are many posts from parents (and some from students) stating their child is only applying to the best schools out there—if they can’t get into a Tier One school, they will attend their local public high school or magnet school. I have given these statements a lot of thought, particularly because my daughters (one currently in boarding school and one applying for 2008 admission) did not apply, nor would ever be accepted by the AESD schools. </p>

<p>Both are good students, but certainly not of the caliber of some of the posters on this board. They enjoy school, do fairly well academically, play sports, and have a wide circle of friends whom they love dearly. </p>

<p>We live in an area where the local high schools are excellent; offering numerous extra-curricular activities and more than 23 AP classes, (average boarding school offers 13). The test scores are the highest in the state, the district spends over $14,300 on each pupil, and the class sizes aren’t too terribly large, on average 25 kids per class. </p>

<p>Perhaps if my daughters were more like many of the posters here, they would thrive at our local high school. Cream rises to the top, and it appears that many of the kids on this board are crème de la crème. But my kids, and probably a lot more like mine, are the type of children that do well, but don’t really push themselves. It is hard to be a superstar, when you are competing with 1400 other kids at your school. It is much easier to do enough to get by, get that B+ instead of an A-. Leadership roles are ultra competitive, as are sports. Even if you are lucky enough to get on a team, it doesn’t mean you will actually play much.</p>

<p>Boarding school offers smaller classes, individual teacher attention, and diversity of athletics, artistic programs, and student population. Typically, the campus is gorgeous, with beautiful, state-of-the-art facilities. The majority of the faculty has advanced degrees, and having that teacher on campus, sharing meals, being a dorm parent, coaching the EC’s, can be a very rewarding relationship. More importantly, the experience of “living on your own”, making decisions by yourself, making friends with people from all over the world, can be life changing. Many schools provide this type of opportunity. Unfortunately, only the top 15 or so are usually mentioned. </p>

<p>Also, for what it’s worth, in my opinion, every school becomes a “reach” if you are requesting financial aid.</p>

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<p>Great post Jenny!
While our local high school isn't as good as yours, our son would coast, just get by, etc. They COULD challenge him...it's just if he would make the right choices.<br>
He needs exactly what you said - the COMMUNITY. Which is how we are judging schools. The type of community feeling we got. They will ALL provide a challenging academic and athletic enviroment for him, it's what ELSE and how they do it that will ultimately matter for him.</p>

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<p>I get the feeling that it is more the younger posters on this board that are pushing the idea that one "needs" to go to ASED ect...</p>

<p>That is definatelly a blanket statement and there are exceptions to every rule, but a look at the last few posts in this thread show that some of what I consider to be the more frequent/responsible adult posters here are happily sending their children to schools other than ASEDPDQECT...
as long as it is a good fit for the child. Count me in this category. (maybe not the frequent/responsible poster part) I hopefully will send my D to a lesser talked about school and couldn't be happier about it. We looked at one of the better known schools and my D wanted nothing to do with it. Could she get in? Her stats are pretty good but who knows.</p>

<p>It is my contention that most of the lesser talked about schools (I hate to even use tier vs tier) are very capable of sending students to Ivy League Schools. They do all the time. It is more a factor of the student than the school. If you took a student from Andover who is going to an Ivy and put him/her in an MAPL school I feel that they would still go to an Ivy. </p>

<p>Having said all of that, I am sure that there are students that want to go to ASED for all of the right reasons and they would thrive there. I just hate to see kids exclude other schools for no better reason than a message board said they should.</p>

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<p>True....I feel bad for students who choose not to go to any bs if they don't get in to AESD, etc. There are many schools that are truly just as good (maybe better), but lack the prestige/popularity of the older, big-name schools to attract the large numbers of applications, hence making their admission stats higher.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the wonderful post jennycraig. You certainly described my experience. I attended a public school through 9th grade. My teachers were good, the school was good, and most of my friends there were headed to college. I could get an A without a lot of effort and although my teachers would talk about "unmet potential," they certainly didn't have the time to try to further motivate one good student when they had plenty of not-so-good students to deal with.</p>

<p>For me the biggest joy of switching to a smaller school was that I didn't have to wait in line to participate in sports and theater. At my public school there was no chance of making a varsity team before my junior year or getting a lead in a play before my senior year. I also hated that you had to choose your group (brainiacs, jocks, burnouts). With just 100 kids per grade at my new school, everybody was everything.</p>

<p>I now work for a school that is not on any top ten list. Our typical senior class will go to a wide range of colleges - including several to the Ivies or top tier liberal arts schools and many to state schools. Here's a quote from one of our recent grads who is now at Yale, "I know that some people worry that SAS is a small pond and that at some point there will be a reality check but the confidence I built in that small pond prepared me for that challenge when it came.” There's something to be said for being a big fish in a small pond.</p>

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<p>I'm more impressed when a current parent is happy with a school. Schools can change quickly, especially when the administration changes. Philosophy does matter, and sometimes, in the pursuit of the Big Names, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that the aim of this process is to educate one child at a time. Even today's Big Name schools were once No Name schools. John McPhee's biography, "The Headmaster", is a moving portrait of Deerfield's first Headmaster.</p>

<p>So far, I've heard good things about St. Mark's, Tilton, Lawrence Academy, Worcester Academy, and Brooks School. All the parents paid full tuition, as well, so they felt it was worth the sacrifice. That's more impressive to me than any guidebook, or how large an endowment a school manages, or how prestigious a school is thought to be.</p>

<p>I have heard opinions about other schools, but I discount the recollections of 20+ years ago. Schools do change, and a school which was great or a pressure cooker back then, may be entirely different today.</p>

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<p>I think you could easily add Mercersburg Academy to that list of schools just mentioned. What a great school and in a beautiful setting, too.</p>

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<p>does anybody know what tier Western Reserve Academy is in</p>

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<p>II-A10 chars</p>

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<p>I've met some really incredible Western Reserve graduates. The school is a boarding/day school in an area where very few people send their children to boarding school and the day schools are outstanding so it really has to work hard to be a player in the market there. Plus, Hudson is a beautiful town. I'd recommend it.</p>

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<p>Hi!
I just got a full merit scholarship to Western Reserve Academy!!!! (celebration) And i also got accepted to Lawrenceville School.
I really love Lawrenceville more. I feel it is a better school academically with a better reputation. Money is not a HUGE issue for my family... i want to go to the best school for me. Any suggestions about what school I should choose?</p>

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<p>I would like to add Cushing Academy to the list of schools that should be considered. My daughter is a senior and has been a student at Cushing for 3 years. She was a top student at a local private school with incredible stats and would have been a strong candidate at the so called teir 1 schools. In fact we started the application process at a few but I had already heard of Cushing from a client of mine. My daughter fell in love with Cushing the day she spent there attending classes and meeting students. I felt that she would be lost at a tier 1 school and would not thrive there. We were looking for that magical fit and Cushing was the perfect match. We pulled all other applications after she was quickly accepted. After 3 years I can confirm our instincts were correct and she realized her potential and became a top 5 or so student with great AP and SAT stats. She used the same "fit" approach in her college search and fell in love with Vanderbilt the day we visited over the summer. She applied EDI and was accepted and will be part of the class of 2012. She started her college search thinking she wanted to attend our local Ivy but the fit at Vanderbilt was compelling, similar to the Cushing fit. As the Vanderbilt admissions person told us that day "College is a match to be made not a prize to be won." The same applies to boarding schools.</p>