Tisch ED vs. NYU/CAS/RD - need advice

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I understand that an applicant may only apply to one NYU school per year. Therefore, if an applicant is rejected from Tisch ED he/she cannot apply RD to CAS. </p>

<p>My son, finishing junior year, would love to attend the Tisch dramatic writing program. His grades will be about 3.8-4.0 (most challenging classes) and around 1350 (old SAT). He should have very good recommendations. We will have visited NYU twice, and if admitted to the Tisch summer writing program this summer, my son will attend it.</p>

<p>His "passion" is stand-up comedy and he wants to be a comedy writer. He constantly attends open mikes, advanced stand-up classes, and just wrote/performed in his own show in a mid-size theater (150 seats) that he and friend rented on their own. He also has performed the lead in several high school musicals and plays.</p>

<p>I have not seen a breakdown in stats re how many students apply to Tisch/Dramatic Writing ED versus how many are accepted. I want him to be able to fulfill his dream, but perhaps he should hedge his bet and apply ED to CAS? Then at least he’d have a chance to get to NYU, could possibly transfer later to Tisch, and not risk being eliminated at the beginning.</p>

<p>I’d really appreciate hearing the thoughts of other parents on this issue. Thank you.</p>

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<p>Good, focused questions. Alas, I don't have the answers. </p>

<p>However, I would investigate <em>thoroughly</em> the assumption that once at CAS he might be able to transfer to Tisch later. My sense (my D looked at NYU, didn't apply) is that transfers run the other way. If Tisch is what your son really wants, he should probably apply ED and have other programs on the burner that would come closest to meeting his needs for writing/comedy. </p>

<p>While SAT scores are not everything, in the context of NYU that 1350 (old) is pretty middlin'...and a middlin' score has a sub-middlin' chance of admissions. Whereas, I <em>think</em>, and again this should be investigated thoroughly, that SAT scores probably weigh less at Tisch compared to performing credits/portfolio, recs, etc.</p>

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<p>SoozieVT has a daughter at Tisch, btw; she may offer good opinion...flag her down.</p>

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<p>I know a young man with lower scores --quite a bit lower-- who feared being rejected outright from the dramatic writing program, but was nonetheless accepted to the high school program at Tisch. He was in fact a very gifted writer despite his low test scores, and when he applied early the next fall, the summer profs got together and supported him --and an exception was made and he was accepted. It was a very good decision on the part of Tisch. The young man was extremely talented. I agree that your son's scores are low but if he is accepted to the summer program, and if they love him, something like that can be overlooked. Go for what you want. If you don't get into Tisch there are other programs with less emphasis on SAT scores.</p>

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<p>My daughter will be attending Tisch in the Fall. She is in the dance program and applied and auditioned RD. We were led to believe from NYU that ED is harder to get into and she needed the extra months to prepare her audition. From what I've read on the CC boards it is very difficult to transfer into other schools once accepted into another. Tisch is selective but I found the admissions people to be very helpful. I would suggest speaking with them and than applying RD rather than ED. REmember for Tisch the audition/portfolio whatever is 50% of the admission and it needs to be outsanding. As far as my D's stats - they were not the best - just good and solid - she's a top student in a mediocre public high school in the middle of nowhere.</p>

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<p>I don't know the specific stats for the dramatic writing program, and no acceptance is guaranteed, but I would assume your son would be very competitive. He has strong stats, and his stand up comedy gives him a unique flair that is sure to be appreciated. I think NYU respects applicants with passion.</p>

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<p>I really appreciate all of your responses. We are going to visit soon, and will see if we can find out the ratio of applications to acceptances in the dramatic writing program. Coincidentally I met a young man today who happened to have graduated from the Tisch dramatic writing program. He says there were only 15 students in the program (about 10 years ago), and thought the odds were better if one applied to the Tisch drama program because doing stand-up involves performance skills, and they accepted more people. We still have a few months to mull over the issue, and I'm sure we'll keep bouncing back and forth as to what to do.</p>

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<p>I think dramatic writing might take 50 a year. I do not know how many apply. Acceptance depends on your son's writing to a large degree --and by that I mean his storytelling skills. He should aim for a 25 page portfolio.</p>

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<p>km5,
Hi, I'm a parent of a Tisch Freshman, who is in the BFA program for musical theater. I'll try to help. Your son's stats are in the ballpark for NYU. Still, it is quite selective. For Tisch, it is not quite what TheDad said where the portfolio or audition counts more. Actually, the admissions to Tisch is weighed 50% on academic admissions and 50% on artistic review. So, the academics indeed do matter. </p>

<p>Beyond your son's stats, it seems he has experiences and talents that will be noticed. His stand up comedy act that he put on at a venue....all show the development of his passion and talent. He'll have to put together a portfolio. The summer program will be beneficial in many ways. </p>

<p>I am sorry to not know the number of applicants for the number of slots in the Dramatic Writing program. You could try to find out directly from Tisch. </p>

<p>As far as whether to apply for Dramatic Writing or for the Drama program, I would not decide based on hedging the odds. Each program is intense and it is more important that he find out which each involves and figures out how his interests and goals dovetail with each program. One is going to focus on performance and one on writing, so they are very different. </p>

<p>I also would not apply to CAS with the hopes of transfering into Tisch. I do not think he will be able to transfer into Tisch or if it is possible, it is difficult to do. If he wants Tisch, he is better off applying TO Tisch. This isn't like regular college where you switch majors, etc. Going to Tisch is entering a professional degree program and a commitment to that particular field from the get go. If he is certain he wants Tisch, then apply ED. The fact that there are more students in drama than in dramatic writing is irrelevant. Numbers of that sort do not tell the picture. It is acceptance rates. For instance, to get in for Drama, they admit 20%. To get in for Musical Theater, it is approx. an admit rate of 7%. It doesn't matter if there are more kids in drama than dramatic writing but only the admit rate. I don't know how many apply for dramatic writing or how many get admitted. If your son can visit with the department at Tisch and talk to those in it, that would be the best. He can figure out which program is the best fit and he ought to go for the program that is what he wants, not which one has the best odds. Unlike a liberal arts school, this is a full commitment to an intense program so it is important to pick the one that fits his desires and learning goals. He may want to look into Playwrights Horizons, which is one of the studios in the Drama Dept. as that studio involves all facets....he would do some acting but also some writing and directing. If he only wants to write and not perform, then dramatic writing might be the way to go. The summer program will help him to also figure out his focus. He sounds like a really neat kid. </p>

<p>Best,
Susan</p>

<p>PS...congrats to your D MommaMeg for her acceptance into Tisch for dance. My D is also a dancer but is in the Musical Theater program (takes dance in that program). By the way, we also are from the middle of nowhere....big change going from here to Manhattan! I think you tried to PM me and my PM box keeps filling up and I can't keep up. Feel free to email me which I much prefer anyway.</p>

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<p>Km5, if you have a kid who is torn between arts and academics -- look at Gallatin. My daughter, who plans to combine the study of choreography with linguistics, has been accepted with a 29 ACT. "Middlin' scores"? So what? </p>

<p>Somehow I think that an open-mike, standup comic sort of kid might be more at home at Gallatin in any case. Check the sections on the Gallatin web site about arts workshops and student clubs. It's not that the quality of Gallatin's offerings would compete with Tisch... it's just that those folks at Tisch seem really, really serious about their artistic aspirations. Gallatin, on the other hand, is putting on a "Lack of Talent Show" this month.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for all of your helpful suggestions and we will pursue all of them. We will be visiting NYU soon (We live in LA). Is it wise to go to the Tisch/Galletin office to introduce my son - or too pushy? Should my son maybe just go up by himself? Or are they inundated with other problems right now, and we should just wait until he formally applies, and then communicate by phone/email...
Thanks again.</p>

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<p>Km5, your purpose on a college visit is not to sell yourself to admissions (unless there is some interview but NYU doesn't have those.....not counting auditions). The purpose is for them to sell themselves to you. You are there to explore in depth what they have to offer, ask questions, and see if the school is a good fit. So, you are not there to introduce your son. </p>

<p>What you can do is piece together a fruitful visit. I don't know what Gallatin offers for campus visitors. I can tell you some things we did to visit NYU....</p>

<p>On the first visit, my D spent the night in the dorms with kids she knew who attended. She saw what life was like there, talked with kids, went out in the environs. We did the NYU information session and the NYU Tour. All these were lined up and reserved in advance of the trip. My D also observed two dance classes in the musical theater studio (CAP21) that a friend in the program arranged for her. I also lined up going to a Tisch information session which allowed for questions and answers as well. They also allowed me to line up a one on one meeting with a current student in the program she was interested in. Those are some ideas of what you can do on a visit, besides also checking out the area, talking to random kids, too. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Susan, I do think that some 50/50's are more equal than others in NYU's admissions. The son of TheMom's best friend got in last year and his grades/stats, while okay--and with the excuse of having had mono for the first half of senior year--would have been a longshot. His acting creds, however, were spectacular. I'd say more but don't think I can without giving away too much identifying information.</p>

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<p>TheDad ....that may be so but only the admissions office knows for sure and has all the pieces. I only know that they state that the admissions decision is weighed 50% on academic review in the NYU admissions office and 50% in the artistic review done at Tisch. I would imagine as with any admissions decision, that some area of weakness can be made up for in several areas of strength. However, candidates need to know that unlike other BFA programs at other fine institutions, academics weigh heavily and MORE at NYU than at many of the others. Some other BFA programs weight artistic review for more of the decision and then the academic review requires being over a certain "bar" which at some schools is not that high but overall, at NYU it is a selective school academically. I also don't think any of us can analyze another candidate's admissions to the fullest as we are not privy to every single piece of the application process or the needs of the institution. I do know many many highly talented kids who did not get into NYU and while I do not know the reason, I do know that they did not have the academics that are in range for that school, so that no matter how talented, they could not get in. As well, when a musical theater program is taking approximately 7% and the acting programs approx. 20%, it is a very selective process and so very good candidates are shut out. As with all admissions, it is not like they take the kids on the pile with the highest stats, as it is not that simple but is more wholistic. At many selective colleges, there are kids admitted with lower stats than kids rejected with higher ones. We see it all the time. These students had other things to offer. That is why when I read student posts on CC where kids post their stats and analyze or wonder why kid #1 got in but had lower stats than kid #2 who got rejected and they can't figure it out....there is SO much more to the admissions process. At this time of year, students are posting stats and results and sadly, these alone do NOT tell the full picture. </p>

<p>Also, while the boy you know had spectular acting credits...the credits themselves won't get a kid in but the kid had to be very talented to have garnered those credits in the first place. When you see a kid with significant credits and know what this field is like, you know that their talent got them cast repeatedly in a competitive casting process and so it says something. As well, someone with experience has gained skills. It all makes sense. I don't see any of it as unfair, I'll put it that way. They accept people, not just stats. My D is a Tisch Scholar and I believe there are about 15 of them in the freshman class of 500 at Tisch. Does she have the highest SAT and GPA and rank of all the freshmen? Not at all. She also won a $20,000 Trustee Scholarship....again, stats alone did not get there, though she is a very good student. That's why when kids ask me online, what's your kids' stats....not only would I not share due to privacy but they really do not tell the full picture (though they have strong stats but not the highest ones I have ever seen on CC, LOL).</p>

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<p>By the way, I don't view mono as a poor excuse for a grade drop. If grades were off during a bout of mono, I would understand that if documented by others. There are many degrees of mono. I had mono when I was 33 and I was bedridden for a month and could barely even sit up.</p>

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<p>km5, Gallatin does offer its own information sessions -- you have to check the web site for the times. Depending on time of year, the NYU informations sessions are every day of the week, including Saturdays - and I think they have two or three scheduled every day. Gallatin is less frequent. </p>

<p>That being said, my d. didn't have the opportunity of attending a Gallatin-specific session. Like soozievt's d, mine started with an overnight stay in the dorms, only at the time my d. didn't know she was interested in NYU. She was in town - on her own- to visit and interview at Barnard, and she had arranged to stay overnight in the dorm of a friend who was an NYU student - she arrived on a Thursday night after having spent the first part of the week visiting and touring D.C. - area schools. Basically, the first part of her week turned out to be a bummer, as she discovered that the schools she thought she would like weren't for her.... and arriving at NYU (for her) was an epiphany. She called me and was ecstatic -- so I checked on line and then emailed her back with the time of the Saturday info session. </p>

<p>She wasn't sure about Gallatin at first in any case -- it was something I suggested she look into -- its just that the more she looked into it, the more she realized it seemed like a perfect fit.</p>