<p>Is it $25,000 a year for UCB (that's Cal, right?) for IN STATE? Wow. That is expensive.</p>
<p>tuition is around 9k for UC schools + living expenses.. i don't see how it adds up to 25k unless you're a big spender.</p>
<p>First of all, I think you are fortunate that your daughter wants to attend college in state. MOST California kids end up attending a Calif public college, either because they don't get into/can't afford out of state options, or simply because they only apply in state. For the kids who want to apply in-state only, keep in mind that there is a different timetable -- one that will be very much directed by the school, as the vast majority of kids are on the Calif. track. The UC apps are due at the end of November, and the kids do all manage get them in on time, with or without parental prodding. Visits aren't all that important if the kids have a general idea where they want to go -- they can check off 3 or 4 campuses on the application, and find time to visit later. So basically, California kids don't have play into the whole college admissions frenzy if they don't want to, and they are pretty safe waiting until late October or early November to start filling out the UC app. If CSU's are being considered, it is worthwhile to apply to them early simply because they can fill up. </p>
<p>UC campuses do offer merit aid -- both my kids were offered $2000 Dean's scholarships by UC Santa Cruz ... and of course some kids do better than that. Most kids at UCs move off campus after the first year, and that often is a savings over what the dorms cost-- so there definitely are ways to shave the cost off of housing. </p>
<p>My son is now at Humboldt and supporting himself entirely --I think the CSU's are very affordable. So I'd look to the CSU's before hunting for merit aid at the out-of-state colleges that are most likely to offer a substantial amount. You have to keep in mind that you would need a LOT of merit money to bring the cost of most out-of-state privates in line with instate publics, and unless your daughter is a real academic superstar, that means aiming for colleges that objectively are less selective and generally offer less academic opportunities than the UC system. It makes more sense, I think, to focus on applying for private scholarship money.</p>
<p>Also, if you qualify for Cal grant you probably also qualify for need-based financial aid. I feel that the need-based awards my kids were offered from the UC's were very generous. </p>
<p>You mentioned you have recently survived a life-threatening illness. Keep in mind that may be a powerful reason that your daughter may want to stay nearby, even if she herself is not aware of it. Even if you have now recovered, your daughter is probably painfully aware that she could lose you, and for that reason may not want to venture too far. </p>
<p>So if I were you I'd count your blessings and buy a Cal decal for the car. ;)</p>
<p>A variation on a lot of the advice given. If this were my child I see if I could engage her in a discussion on her list ... let's list the attributes of the a school she would like ... city/suburd/college town ... climate ... majors(environmental studetis, etc) ... merit money available ... cost to attend ... big/medium/small ... distance from home ... etc. No where on this list would be in-state or out-of-state .... my guess is running these attributes through one of the on-line college match programs will yield a lot of schools your daughter has not conseidered. Then once these other schools are on the radar screen she will either open to them or maybe still want to stay very close to home (which is fine also). A warning - most likely this will first make the list MUCH longer!</p>
<p>Regarding the cost of the UCs - they're relatively inexpensive if only looking at tuition. For those commuting, the costs are pretty low (about 9K as hobo stated). However, the on-campus living costs are fairly high higher than tuition. I think UCB is one of the highest in the country. Tuition+LivingCosts+Books = about $20-25K per year as Zagat stated. As CalMom states though, living off campus (which most will do after a couple of years) is generally less expensive.</p>
<p>The CalStates are less expensive for tuition and it varies on dorm costs. </p>
<p>From what we were told by all of the UCs we visited and from our own experience, one can generally easily graduate in 4 years. Those that take longer generally have switched majors, are double-majoring, have a heavy minor, or didn't decide on their major until late.</p>
<p>I'd also like to point out that at Berkeley and at several other UC's there are off-campus living environments that are dorm-like but may be less expensive than the college-owned dorms. Berkeley has co-ops; I don't know specifics about the other campuses -- but the campuses are large and so there is a lot of incentive for local property owners to provide student-orientated apartment complexes. Some areas are expensive to live in, in any case -- but my point is simply that the $$ quoted for anticipated living expenses probably can be shaved by a few thousand. At many of the campuses, the lines between on-campus/off-campus are rather nebulous, because there are areas adjacent to campus that are largely student-occupied communities.</p>
<p>USCB is totally similar to what calmom describes. Lots of off campus apartments etf in areas adjacent to campus...totally student occupied communities. No sane adult would want to live anywhere nearby.</p>
<p>Sorry, of course I meant UCSB, fingers went too fast ....</p>
<p>I'm a California resident who has a twin sister. Putting two girls through college at the same time was an interesting exercise in financial accounting--especially since my family did not qualify for any financial aid. We were just on the wrong the side of the "cut-off" amounts, and even though we were paying off my dad's medical bills from his quadruple bypass and mitral valve replacement, we still didn't qualify.</p>
<p>My parents set some limits--any Cal State or UC school you can get in to. </p>
<p>After reading your original post, I really feel that your daughter would do extremely well at my alma mater--Humboldt State. It's very close to the ocean with multiple water sports, the cost is reasonable when compared to UC schools and out-of-state schools, she gets to do research as an undergrad on the research vessel <em>The Coral Sea</em>, and most research labs are not on slides but biological samples freshly collected by the students in the local environs. </p>
<p>If she is serious about becoming a marine biologist, she will need to go to grad school. Humboldt has one of the highest percentages of undergrads who go on to earn their PhDs.</p>
<p>If your daughter is looking for an adventure, then one awaits her behind the Redwood Curtain. However, if she needs a big-city nightlife and is not into outdoor activities and small-town/rural existence, she might want to look at some of the other schools you mentioned.</p>
<p>The last thing I would like to mention is that if you are shouldering the cost of college personally, you should have some input in the choice of her college. I think my parents were entirely fair in offering me over 40 colleges to choose from, and I don't think I made a mistake going to Humboldt. It was small enough for me to get the hands-on experience I needed in my field (theatre) so that I can work in it today. My current colleagues who attended larger schools did not get the hands-on experience until their junior years at the earliest, and sometimes not even until their senior years.</p>
<p>
[quote]
No sane adult would want to live anywhere nearby
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nor sane student.</p>
<p>I can only address one little slice of your concerns. Our son was pretty laid back about college. He identified 5-6 colleges he was interested in, applied, and didn't sweat about the results. With acceptances in hand, he selected the one he wanted to attend and never looked back.</p>
<p>We parents, on the other hand, second-guessed every step of the way: "Don't you want to apply to [2-4-6-infinity] more colleges?"; "Are you sure you won't regret going to College A instead of College B?"; "Why don't you sleep on your decision?"; and "Do you really want to stay so close to home?" followed closely by "Do you really want to go so far away from home?" as the day to leave home drew near. We probably drove him crazy. We almost drove ourselves crazy.</p>
<p>Sending a child to college is energizing, nerve-wracking, exciting, happy, sad, stressful, and _____ [you can fill in the blank with almost any emotion since they all make an appearance at one point or another]. I get the feeling you are mixing your appropriate concerns about finances and which colleges meet your daughter's interests with other more emotional issues. Try making a list of specific college-related questions and goals, edit them, and see if that helps.</p>
<p>Your D may not be interested in going out of state because most of her friends aren't talking about going OOS. There's not much of a tradition of that in Calif, unlike NY, where you grew up. </p>
<p>Frankly, considering the costs of cross-country flights several times a year on top of staggering college costs, most students should have very good REASON why they need/want to go OOS. Especially California residents, who have so many excellent public and private choices. Yes, going OOS would give her good exposure to different a culture, etc. but it's not a necessity. (Plus, who says Berkeley isn't a different culture? Smile) And if you want her to have that far-away-from-home experience, there's always junior year abroad :)</p>
<p>Thank you all so much for your thoughtful and generously offered insights...</p>
<p>first, zagat asked about stats- 3.83 unweighted, 4.3 weighted, most demanding curriculum; I think her UCGPA is either 4.01 or 4.08; 4's on AP Bio/E, US Hist, and English; 3 on AP Gov; 29 on ACT; Sat Subjects were 650 Lit and 700 US History</p>
<p>one bad score was Sat Bio 510 taken in her Jr year..had Bio as a freshman, planned to take AP Bio JR year ...well, much to our shock, the school did not offer it that year! so she hadn't taken any general BIo since 9th grade when she took Bio Subject at end of Jr year</p>
<p>since it seemed like a slightly better test for her, we are focusing on ACT and she will re-take it next weekend in time for UMiami EA, her Science score was lowest on that</p>
<p>we won't submit SATs unless we have to along with SAT subjects, but SAT was 1940: 670 writing, 640 math, 630 CR....she is VERY well-rounded</p>
<p>Main EC is speech/debate, plus others, I'd say well above average; and recs should be above avg to excellent</p>
<p>2 wild cards: how will my illness and family adversity she survived all though high school will affect admissions, and how my finances will play out regarding need and/or merit: just lots of "special circumstances" there</p>
<p>but yes, zagat, I kind of feel like I'm doing her a disservice if I let her focus only on in-state, as 3togo said, a good exercise is to leave the locale out of it and just look at merits of each college </p>
<p>cathymee- thx for heads-up on UMiami..I'm pretty sure she will do EA there..we were able to meet with a private counselor and she also recommended considering Eckerd</p>
<p>after talking with us at length and working with d before, the counselor recommended the following list to consider(you'll see some we had before were removed):
CA schools: UC's: B,SC,SB,SD,LA,D / CSU's for safeties: Cal Poly SLO, CSU Monterey Bay / privates: Occidental, USC, USD, Pitzer, CMC, Scripps</p>
<p>New England: Colby, Bowdoin, Tufts, BU or Northeastern</p>
<p>Florida: UMiami, Eckerd</p>
<p>Washington- Whitman</p>
<p>counselor took off two that may go back on: Humboldt and Vassar (we covered alot of ground, she just said to Erin "you're not a Humboldt girl"- maybe H not urban enough? drugs? I should have asked her to clarify...because we drove all the way up to Humboldt from the bay area and liked it as a safety ( the research vessel was impressive)..Calmom or Avcastner any ideas? She thought Vassar was a little "hoity-toity", some tension with the town of Poughkeepsie etc. UWAsh and Oregon schools also got the axe, which I guess I'm OK with. she just liked Whitman best for d in that region.</p>
<p>counselor also said not to retake Bio subject, but have school GC explain it</p>
<p>Kathiep- we did talk about it more over the weekend...I think she needs my "permission" to consider OOS, I think she had just assumed it would be too expensive..(I'm not that authoritative, but she is very sweet, and worries about money more than I do!) I tried to convey that though I want her to research these OOS schools on the new list, and any others OOS, that it is her decision if she feels she wants to go OOS or not, assuming the financials work out. She seemed to indicate she is pretty comfortable with anything on the West coast, and not sure about the rest but would research. She researched Eckerd and was impressed, Tufts not as much as she didn't see much marine bio there.</p>
<p>menlopark mom- great info on USC, and she has already done pt 1 of app (the easy part!) Her research program off Catalina this past summer was affiliated with USC and she will get college credit from them for that class</p>
<p>calmom- interesting point about staying instate and avoided the whole app frenzy..we do it all in Nov and then sit back and wait if we're sticking w publics. it really is tempting! can we just fast-forward right to that Cal bumper-sticker??!!</p>
<p>re: all the posts on costs, yes UCB has one of the highest room and board costs in the country. I'm not looking too much at the sticker price just yet, its not crystal clear how the need/merit stuff will play out for us..but d understands we'll look at that last when we have the info we need</p>
<p>re: off-campus housing at UCSB-- that was personally my one negative on that school, didn't bother d though! but I think they have built or added more dorms recently...still IV is there to deal with</p>
<p>DRJ4--LOL! I'm totally relating to all you said...what a perfect description of this whole experience!!! How did your son's approach work out? I am trying to keep a sense of humor, mostly not too successful, but you've helped!</p>
<p>I also just picked up the 2007 Fiske guide- so much more readable than the College board "bible"---no wonder my d wasn't interested in that tome, good for a quick stat if your computer is down tho. </p>
<p>celloguy, ebeee, ucla<em>ucsd</em>dad, hobo and bookie.... and all who have contributed...thanks for walking a little ways with us along the winding road to college, not to be corny, but just want to express my thanks...sorry this post was so long! just had lots of news from the weekend!</p>
<p>hopefully this may help any other CA parents wondering about this whole issue too</p>
<p>katliamom- our posts must have crossed..I do agree, with all we have going in CA, it will take something pretty spectacular to lure her away...and something that offers unique aspects not available here...and as you say, a year abroad gives another cultural experience anyhow. True, I don't think she hears that much about OOS from friends. Its strange, because Californians have this reputation for exploring and pushing the envelope, but when it comes down to it for college, most seem to stay in the bubble! Is is because we have too good of a deal, or are we complacent, or have we lost the pioneering spirit??!
that said, I still want to try to open the doors for her to at least take a look out there
just don't want regrets later that we didn't explore beyond the boundaries a bit</p>
<p>I think it's simply cultural & physical. The east had a century or so jump start at creating a culture of going-away-to-school. There was no California to speak of when the elite of the east began their obsession with HYP!
Then there's geography: it's a LONG way from CA to the northeast. Before we all got used to flying here and there at the drop of a hat, a cross country trek was a big deal. California itself is a big state - going to Berkeley if you live in San Diego IS going away to school. Plus, a lot of Californians are also ex-easterners who have inculcated their kids with horrid-weather stories that are simply turnoffs to their kids. (My own California-based family is appalled that I LIKE living in a climate where it snows. And they can't believe D CHOSE to go to school in Boston.) </p>
<p>And the there's California's amazing higher education system. Huge, multi-layered, highly attractive even with recent tuition hikes and school cuts. Berkeley and UCLA are world-renown. Everyone in the world has heard of them. How many publics or even 20K/year schools can make that claim?</p>
<p>wecandothis -- I'm kind of skeptical about your daughter's counselor's suggestions:</p>
<p>"New England: Colby, Bowdoin, Tufts, BU or Northeastern"</p>
<p>I know for sure that neither BU nor Northeastern promise to meet full need of their students, though Northeastern will give merit aid. And I just don't see your daughter's interests as necessarily being fulfilled at a small LAC like Colby or Bowdoin -- if your d. likes Berkeley, then either she is very flexible or she is going to want a larger college in an urban or suburban setting. So it just seems like a very odd list to me. My d. appied to Northeastern, but I see Northeastern as one of those colleges that should only be chosen if the kid is strongly motivated to attend, because of the co-op program. A kid looking for a traditional 4-year-program might not be at all happy. </p>
<p>Given that, I wouldn't rely on the counselor too much - it doesn't seem like she really "knows" your daughter all that well to come up with such a mixed bag list - so I'd also suggest you take the Humboldt comment with a grain of salt, especially if you liked Humboldt after visiting. However, your daughter will definitely get into a UC, so she doesn't need another safety -- and Santa Cruz would probably be a better option that Humboldt. Whatever negatives Santa Cruz has, Humboldt is worse. (By "negatives" I mean the rate of marijuana use per student - as far as positive, the redwood trees are taller at Humboldt, but Santa Cruz has more trees the actual campus). As noted, my son is happy at Humboldt... but I think he would have preferred Santa Cruz if he could have gotten in.... which brings me to another point:</p>
<p>It is darn near impossible for a California kid to get BACK into the UC system as a transfer from an out of state college. My son was invited to apply for a Regents at UCSC when he was admitted the first time around, and told that he was in the top 5% of their applicant pool -- but after 2 years at an east coast LAC, he could not get in as a transfer. Transfer priority is as follows:</p>
<p>1) In state transfers from community college (top priority, many with guaranteed spots)
2) Transfers from in-state colleges
3) Transfers from out-of-state colleges</p>
<p>So if your daughter is unsure about leaving the state; and your own health or finances are uncertain ... be aware that turning the UC system down as an entering freshman shuts the door for the future. For the many kids like my daughter who are absolutely certain that they want to go out of state -- that's fine -- but I don't think its such a good idea to give that up just for the sake of going out of state.</p>
<p>And now I'm going to contradict myself (don't worry, I spent all last fall giving my daughter contradictory advice on college selection -- you just have to learn to take what you like and ignore everything else I say): Lewis & Clark in Portland has what looks like a good Environmental Studies major: <a href="http://www.lclark.edu/COLLEGE/DEPAR/ENST/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.lclark.edu/COLLEGE/DEPAR/ENST/index.html</a> -- at least they are boasting about it -- and L & C tends to be generous with merit aid for high achieving Calif. students (I think they know they are bidding against the UC system). It would make a good match/ probable safety for your daughter.</p>
<p>"Northeastern as one of those colleges that should only be chosen if the kid is strongly motivated to attend, because of the co-op program. A kid looking for a traditional 4-year-program might not be at all happy. "</p>
<p>As the mother of a Northeastern freshman, I absolutely agree. Northeastern is for professionally-oriented students who have an idea what they want to do and want to do co-op (paid internships) that extends the program to 5 years. It's not for kids looking for a 'regular' college - or LAC - experience.</p>
<p>Hmmmm, calmom- I hadn't realized the issues about getting back into a UC from out-of-state if you wanted to transfer later on; but it does make sense.</p>
<p>Just a random thought- Are the UC's a bit provincial, in terms of being mostly composed of Californians? I haven't looked at the actual numbers on that though...she's a kid that truly enjoys diversity, she loved the international element at UCB last summer, grad students and just the general community in Berkeley etc </p>
<p>I know, I'm not totally sold on this new list, but as some ideas to research, I think we're getting in the ballpark...in our discussion, we were more focusing on marine bio/environmental opportunities..this counselor refers you to someone else for more details on the aid stuff, or you figure those details out on your own. </p>
<p>In counselor's defense, she actually meant Colby, Bowdoin, and Tufts.... then choose EITHER Northeastern OR BU. I'm the one who has been interested in Northeastern...as a former liberal arts dilettante (sp?) who still doesn't know what I want to be when I grow up, I love the coop thing, and they do have an awesome "3 Seas" marine bio semester. d loves being in the field, actually doing something...she isn't one to sit and study ALL day...But she's this mix of Lib Arts type, outdoorsy, with a decidedly scientific bent...so I think a LAC that is strong in life sciences/bio/environmental could be ideal...with a Berkeley-like vibe, on or near the coast, multicultural, good study abroad and some aid, whether merit or need TBD...work with me here!</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, your daughter will definitely get into a UC, so she doesn't need another safety -- and Santa Cruz would probably be a better option that Humboldt.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>well, we really like Santa Cruz, good marine bio there, but I don't know...there are so many horror stories of good students being rejected by all the UC's they applied to. We received letter today from UC that although she was submitted by her school for ELC, when UC applied their magic formula for 10th and 11th grades only ( which has a few B's from the soph year , when I was ill, etc etc, and she exceeded the magic # of 8 classes that could be weighted)...she did not qualify for ELC. The letter was very sugar-coated and not clearly written at all...but went on to say "Your transcript clearly shows that you have challenged yourself academically and that you are on track to qualify for admission to UC through the "statewide eligibility" path. As a UC-eligible student, you are guaranteed admission to one of our nine outstanding undergraduate campuses...blah blah..competition may be considerable....and you may not be admitted to your first choice."</p>
<p>Its the last two sentences that I had to read a few times...the last sentence seems to be saying that she is guaranteed admission "as a UC-eligible student"...but the sentence before that only states that she is only "ON TRACK to qualify....through the statewide eligibility path"...big difference, if I'm translating this correctly! I still don't totally understand this..I mean, what is it..is she "eligible" under statewide, or just "on track to be eligible"?its one or the other, but the wording suggests both.</p>
<p>d was mad! she felt it was "her first rejection"...ouch...and it was in a thick envelope, to boot! to add insult to injury they enclosed a brochure for UC Merced! I tried to explain that just to be considered for ELC is an honor...
wow, not sure I'm cut out to be a UC parent! I don't like all the red-tape, secret formulas, and bureacracy..</p>
<p>on the good news side, she also received what seemed almost like a recruiting email from the executive director of admissions for an Ivy League school...this out of the blue, as we had not contacted them previously, addressed to her personally..stating "Dear d, Your academic achievements thus far suggest that you may be competitive for admission to ______ University. What you could experience here could take place nowhere else in the world. I invite you to consider __<strong><em>University in the city of _</em></strong>." and so forth, glowing description of facilities, location, programs...then at the end "We strongly encourage students to apply online by visiting (website)."
?????</p>
<p>we've certainly received these form lesser schools, but not from an Ivy..it seemed legit....could it be? do they want her for geo diversity, or as a female interested in science? this has me very perplexed!</p>
<p>Yes, Lewis and Clark was on the list at some point, but I think it got axed along with everything else in the northwest except Whitman...</p>
<p>I'll give it another look!</p>
<p>We can, this is a great place to come up the learning curve. A few things. Your daughter IS UC elegible and must get into one UC. With her grades it should be at least one of the mid tier although it could well be a top 3.</p>
<p>The letter from the ivy means little to nothing. They send to every kid past a certain SAT score. Don't forget they need lots of applicants to reject to keep their selectivity up. And CA does not represent diversity, it is one of the best represented states at every ivy!</p>
<p>The UCs take relatively small numbers of out of state kids, below 5% at most. While some argue that CA is diverse, if true diversity is important, UCs are probably not your best bet. Some are over 50% Asian and the others are close. The are very low numbers of blacks at the UCs. </p>
<p>There are certainly great LACs with a Berkeley like vibe, much smaller classes and mor diverse student bodies. I don't know how they fit with her major so others can help better with that list.</p>