<p>I agree with everybody here that $150-200K in loans is simply illogical for an undergraduate degree. But I’m in a similar yet less severe situation. My question for you guys is where do you draw the line? Is 75-80K also unreasonable for an engineering major? Where does it become reasonable? 20, 30, 40K? Just looking for opinions. I could go to Temple for engineering tuition-free (about 10k/year for room and board), but I understand the program is weak. Meanwhile, I got accepted to the engineering schools at Penn State, Virginia Tech, UMD, Pitt and Clemson. Very conflicted!</p>
<p>Sorry to hijack this thread but unwanted to respond to the poster who can go to Temple on a full tuition scholarship (who really should start another thread…).</p>
<p>What is “weak” about the program at Temple? Does it have ABET accreditation?</p>
<p>Did you receive aid from any of those other schools?</p>
<p>More important…can you pay to attend the other schools? Will you have a qualified cosigner for ALL of your loans in excess of the Direct Loans for ALL four years?</p>
<p>When I responded to the OP, I gave some idea as to when taking out loans might not be a bad idea and even part of planning on how to pay for college. Look at my earlier post on this.</p>
<p>First of all, as a student, none of you can take out loans other than what the school and federal government offers you. So it’s not even a quandry as to how much debt you can undertake ON YOUR OWN. The limit is $5500 your freshman year, unless the school throws in Perkins loans and maybe their own school money as loan (rare). The rest all involve your parents. </p>
<p>And here is where some maturity and responsibility on your part is required, because being a parent does not mean being responsible financially. Too many parents, too eagerly borrow and/or co sign when they have no business doing so. You gotta repay that money and if you well know your family is strapped right now, that there are fights about money, bills over due, phone calls from creditors, all of those signs, the very idea of throwing more loans onto them is absurd. Anyone owing anything for more than 90 days according to the credit report will not get a PLUS (parent loan). That can give the student another $4K in Stafford money. That also means if parents are going to cosign, the terms are probably not going to be that great on the private market that will hamstring BOTH you and the parent to a loan with far less flexibility than Sallie Mae. Those loans go on BOTH credit records and will affect both you and the parent until they are paid off and if either of you die, disable,default or anything, the other is still on the hook. A lot of familiy’s ruined by those terms. </p>
<p>So you want to know what is reasonable? Look and see what your parents have saved and are able to pay from current income. That should be about 2/3 of what they are going to pay, and if they need about 1/3 of the amount that is needed from a loan, that’s a general guideline that they will probably be okay, since once you are out of school, the idea is that they won’t be saving for your college or paying for it anymore. If like the OP’s parents, they aren’t paying anything, not a dime, nothing saved and they want to borrow the whole thing, that is a big red flag. If you haven’t been able to afford to save, can’t pay for ANYTHING out of your current situation,what the heck business do you have borrowing it all thinking things will be better in the future? Sheer madness. But I guess if the parents are working and want to borfow it all for a number of reasons, that can also work out ,but really that amount should not be increased to be the whole contribution basing it on the hope that you, the kid are going to be able to pay it all. Unreasonable.</p>
<p>Even in fields like nursing and engineering where job prospects can be pretty good, you might not find a job right away. It was a huge wake up call for my son who went to a top school where the talk was that computer science and engineering majors there just had to open their mouths and the best low hanging ripe fruits would just drop in there with high pay nectars. Nope. No way. Didn’t happen. Yeah, maybe for a small,very small percentage of those kids, those who were intrepid enough and spending time and thought to this end from day one and having such opportunities, but most of those kids did not get swell jobs paying way up there </p>
<p>The good news is they are all employed today, it seems, 10 years plus down the road, but let me tell you, those who borrowed heavily are still sucking it down. You tend to have standards compared to those around you and that you have an MIT or top name degree but owe a mortgage for it for the next 25 years is going to make your life much different from those who are loan free. Making that loan payment month after month hurts terribly. Make any mistakes and you get penalities up the whazoo. I</p>
<p>Met a lovely couple, son’s friend, young man and engineer, SO a nurse. Both in early thirties. Both owe enough in student loans that the face amount could buy them a house. Both still living at home despite good salaries. They needed cars, insurance, clothes, and wanted to enjoy young adult life for a bit in the NYC area. Rents here are sky high for anything nice and convenient. These two are lucky in that they are PAYING on their student loans but they are bitter as can be about it They would in an instant have done their time living at home right after college and be free now, instead of still paying for the college and living at home to do so. They made a few mistakes, and the loan companies whammed them full force and the parents too who blame them for some of their bad credit as cosigned loans are in the mix. Not at good situation when you live in a house where every one owes to the whazzoo. And one of them was being asked to be an enedorser for a younger sibliing’s PLUS as the parent does not qualify. I think it’s safe to say that the loans are causing a terrible strain.</p>
<p>thumper, sorry to hijack the thread, but I think my situation is very relatable to the OP’s. My parents are also unable/unwilling to contribute anything to the cost of college. I was just curious about everyone’s thoughts on where the “worth it” line is. As an engineering major, I probably won’t be attending graduate school and the connections that I make in college will most likely have an impact on my job search when I graduate. I live within 25 miles of Temple, where the reputation is probably better than anywhere else, and still people don’t have many good things to say about the engineering program. It’s known as a relatively small program and not really a focus of the school at all. I just worry that the internship opportunities and research and resources in general will be at a minimum at a school like this. It is ABET accredited, but with a couple acceptances to much stronger, engineering-focused schools it’s hard to convince myself that all ABET accreditation is the same. </p>
<p>On top of that is the personal reasons. Temple was a safety school, not where I always dreamed of going. I always wanted to go to a nice, big school with a beautiful campus and plenty of opportunities…not a school with questionable security in the middle of a major city. </p>
<p>My EFC is ~25k and I did not get need-based aid from any of these schools, but the merit based aid is as follows:</p>
<p>Penn State Main (IS): $0
Pitt (IS): $0
Clemson (OOS): $12,500
UMD (OOS): $12,000
Temple (IS): Full-tuition</p>
<p>Sorry for the long post. I will make a new thread, but it’s here for those who were interested.</p>
<p>azk5370 -</p>
<p>If your parents are unable/unwilling to contribute anything toward your college education, is even Temple affordable? Will they let you live at home for free, and continue to feed you, clothe you, pay your health insurance/cell phone bill/car insurance/etc. if you study at Temple and commute? You need to find that out. If they can do that (or at least most of that) Temple will work. If they can do only some of that, with a part-time job and a freshman-level student loan you will be OK.</p>
<p>I meant that it will be OK commuting. It is not likely that you can raise the full 10k needed to live on campus.</p>
<p>I know engineering majors who commute more than 25 miles each way to UMCP. One has been doing it all four years using public transit and keeps a bike there on campus. Commuting to Temple can work if you are willing to figure out how to do that.</p>
<p>By unable/unwilling, I meant out of their pockets. They are willing to cosign a loan that I would eventually pay back. Commuting to Temple would be very possible by public transport. Obviously that’s never what I wanted to do, though. I want the college experience like every other kid my age. Commuting is the ultimate last resort for me.</p>
<p>How much debt would you take on so you can drive a Mercedes rather than take the city bus? Think of it that way.</p>
<p>If your parents can’t pay out of pocket, and can’t borrow on their own to help you, then their credit may not be strong enough to co-sign year after year.</p>
<p>lmao my original post has been twisted into someone elses post!</p>
<p>thank you all for your responses, i’ve told my mom how amazing this site is and how wonderful the responders are:) very informative and you guys are very realistic with everything and don’t sugar the truth.</p>
<p>Lyss, there is a good reason why the parents are put on the line for any loans over the Stafford basics and in some cases the Perkins loans. It’s because it is not a good idea at all for kids to graduate with more loans than what the government is willing to back for them. it does not work out when they are given more money, and it isn’t fair to give a young adult who likely has little or no credit history those choices. It’s unfortunate that many of us adults have not learned by the time we are parents, but with them, there is something to grab if there is a default You cannot bankrupt out of these loans. They’ll go after your parent’s taxes and socially security if it comes down to it. </p>
<p>So if your parents have no savings, no leeway in current income that they are willing to commit to you, I would take any assurances of theirs of paying any loans with more than a grain of salt. Get that salt shaker out. You aren’t helping them, in fact hurting them by having them take out loans, and the PLUS is usually a better deal than the private lenders unless your parents are in great shape. If they get turned down by PLUS, you will be eligible to borrow another $4K in Stafford money freshman year, but it should also alert you that they have some problems like outstanding bills, and will likely not get good terms on outside loans either, which will want you on the line as well.</p>