To spend or not to spend......

Paying for College
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<p>Hi all, i'm new to this so i'm sorry if my question is very redundant but i am so confused!!!</p>

<p>I am a senior in HS right now and I got accepted into some pretty good schools, Johns Hopkins, UNC-Chapel and the US Air Force Academy. My family is middle class and has roughly about $150,000 in income. But we live in new york and taxes definitely eat it all up. As it's been already addressed, tuition has gone up tremendously...</p>

<p>Hopkins gave me a grant of 13k including work study...roughly 60k for tuition room and board</p>

<p>If i went to Hopkins, that would be 50K +/- a year so that would put me in about $200,00 in debt. Does this prestige really matter though? A friend is paying full tuition at an IVY and is telling me that it is worth it because the brand name attracts more people/companies (his parents cosigned)</p>

<p>I plan on majoring in something math related.</p>

<p>Co-signing is a little blurry to me so can someone please explain it? All I know is that the parents pay for the childs tuition but it comes out of their income right? Are their credits effected by this?</p>

<p>People say "go where your heart tells you", nowadays money seems like it is one of the key factors for picking a school.</p>

<p>HELP.</p>

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<p>Do you have any instate options in NY state? OOS costs for UNC-CH are not peanuts either!</p>

<p>All three of these schools are terrific. I honestly think any of them would be a wonderful choice…are finances an issue? Isn’t the Air Force Academy free? </p>

<p>Also, you really need to have this discussion about finances with your parents. Your parents would need to cosign any loan in excess of the Direct loan ($5500 for freshman year. Yes, this affects their credit as they are cosigners for the loan. THEY are the ones with the collateral. </p>

<p>You are talking about a HUGE amount of loans…if you are taking loans for the total cost. How much would you NEED in loans annually? What can your parents contribute?</p>

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<p>You can’t borrow $200,000 on your own. You are limited to the federal loan maximums of $5,500 freshman year, $6,500 sophomore year, $7,500 junior year, and $7,500 senior year. This comes to a whopping total of $27,000. To accumulate the amount of debt that you have mentioned, your parents would need to co-sign. And if they are smart at all, they won’t. Those loans will hang over both of your heads until they are paid off or both of the signers are dead. Do not ask your parents to do this for you. Your friend’s parents may be able to pay down the debt they are co-signing for, or they may just be setting themselves up for a lot of grief. Time will tell. For fun reading on this issue see [Project</a> on Student Debt: Home](<a href=“http://www.projectonstudentdebt.org%5DProject”>http://www.projectonstudentdebt.org) Click on the tab labeled “Voices”.</p>

<p>My advice is to kick JHU to the curb, and move on.</p>

<p>Here is a handy calculator that will help you compare the aid packages from the places that remain on your list after ditching JHU: [FinAid</a> | Calculators | Award Letter Comparison Tool](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Award Letter Requirements - Finaid)
Choose a place that is affordable for you and your family, and you will have a lot more options when you graduate because you won’t be up past your collective eyeballs in debt.</p>

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<p>All of your choices are “prestigious.” I’d go where you’d have the least debt.</p>

<p>Congratulations, btw.</p>

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<p>Well the US Air Force Academy is free - but you do have to serve after graduation. Is it 6 or 8 years? Do they still have the policy where you can leave after 2 years (it has to be before ANY classes in the 3rd year) and they will let you without any obligation? You could go there to start. If it doesn’t feel right - you can transfer to somewhere else - and you have 2 years of education with no loans. I don’t know if it still works this way though - I just know that 30 or so years ago my husband’s roommate at Navy left after 2 years and finished school somewhere else.</p>

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<p>thank you for the quick responses! :slight_smile: </p>

<p>@thumper1 no, unfortunately I didn’t apply to any of the SUNY schools here because they did not have a fencing team (got recruited to all three schools as well as some IVYs and tier 1 schools but these are the final 3). And yes the USAFA is “free” in a sense, I would just have to serve a min. of 5 years (i think i get paid like 35k+ a year and i believe housing, medical and dental is covered?) And it does effect credit? Can you explain to me what would that do to i guess paying for their bills etc. etc. My parents can contribute about 25k but the burden of them cosigning is painful…</p>

<p>@happymomof1 haha is co-signing really that bad? What happens if they can’t pay…basically default…i’m guessing bankruptcy? (I’m sorry if i sound a bit stupid on this)</p>

<p>@Moonchild thank you!:)</p>

<p>@njmissy13 i believe it’s 5 years min or maybe they pushed it to 7? Still not so sure. and yes i think so! I think before you become a junior you can leave and not pay the tuition back.</p>

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<p>You cannot have bankruptcy on student loans. If you take them and they co-sign - you are all liable for the loans - forever - until you all die. Student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. If you default - they come after your parents. If you die, your parents still owe. If your parents die, you still owe. They are forever until they are paid. And if they co-sign it is added to their credit report. So now they will have problems qualifying for other loans - like for a new car, or if they want to sell their house and buy a different one. Same for you. Yes - it IS that BAD.</p>

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<p>@njmissy13 it’s basically like a stalker…makes sense lol. I definitely would not want that hanging over my shoulder…thanks for the info, it helped clear things up a bit!</p>

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<p>200,000 in loans would require in excess of $2000 a MONTH in payments for at least ten years. That is a HUGE amount of loan debt. Don’t do it.</p>

<p>If none of these schools is affordable for your family, consider taking a gap year and applying to places that are more affordable, or where you would receive guaranteed merit aid for your GPA/ SAT scores.</p>

<p>Is the Air Force Academy still in the running? To be honest, I think it’s the best of your choices, knowing you will have a service obligation as an officer when you graduate. But you knew this when you applied. Have you changed your mind? If not, why would you turn down the excellent education you will receive at a highly competitive service academy?</p>

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<p>@thumper1 The numbers seem so small than it actually is lol…</p>

<p>And yes it is, it is just something i honestly would have NEVER expected to be a part of. I’ve met the cadets and some of them are so gung-ho about being part AFA so it is a little intimidating for me (plus i’m a girl so 80% of the students are guys haha) The service academy is an unknown territory for me so i honestly do not know what to expect. But i am very proud to be accepted, it’s something different (actually very different) than a normal college i guess.</p>

<p>Why is the tuition going up ugh…</p>

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<p>friend is paying full tuition at an IVY and is telling me that it is worth it because the brand name attracts more people/companies (his parents cosigned)</p>

<p>His parents are fools with a pen. He’s going to regret that debt if the amounts are high. He’s not going to be earning a bunch more money because he graduated from an ivy.</p>

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<p>That’s a load of crap.</p>

<p>First off, he’s not “paying” … he’s indebted. And, he’s in debt for $150,000K. That’s stupid. His parents are nuts for co-signing on those loans.</p>

<p>**Paying full price for college (as in, going into that kind of debt) negatively affects your future for many years to come. College loan repayments are 25 YEARS. College is only 4 years. Don’t shortchange your future by going into huge student loan debt. One day you’ll want a house, spouse, kids, car, vacations, furniture, or simply FOOD… and your huge student loan payments will make those things VERY, VERY difficult (and some of them impossible for many years). **</p>

<p>Do you realize how much INTEREST he’ll pay over the 25 YEARS of loan repayments?</p>

<p>Do you realize how much those MONTHLY PAYMENTS will be?</p>

<p>Do you know the average starting salary for new graduates? Yes, it’s much lower than you think. Paying full price tuition will EAT your starting salary in loan payments alone.</p>

<p>And, yes, I paid for GWU in private student loans and cash to the tune of $100,000.</p>

<p>While I liked GWU, NO COLLEGE DEGREE is worth $100,000.</p>

<p>While there is value in some brand name recognition, networking, experienced professors, etc., there’s not enough value in status or prestige to the tune of $150,000K in debt.</p>

<p>You want “prestige?” Put that money (err, loans) in safe brokerage investments. Make substantial returns on cash investments. Pay off loans. The payoff for that is much greater than the starting salary for college graduates. </p>

<p>Yes, “one day” the kid might make “big money.” </p>

<p>Or, maybe he won’t.</p>

<p>Either way, it’s insane to have huge loan payments hanging over his head-- and his parent’s heads-- for the next 25 years of loan repayments just so he could go to a prestigious school. There are still quality, respectable, name-brand universities that are more affordable with less debt. </p>

<p>And, student loans can’t be done away with in bankruptcy. </p>

<p>You also can’t defer or forbear those loans forever. End up jobless, have a low starting salary, etc.? Too bad. You might not be able to lower or defer those $2000+ a month payments.</p>

<p>Want to buy a house one day, start a family, go on exotic vacations, buy nice clothes, buy a nice car, go partying, etc.? Yeah, try doing that with a $2000+ a month STUDENT LOAN payment. Not fun, if even possible. You might literally not have any money left for rent after those student loan payments, let alone food, clothes, transit, vacations, etc. And, buying a house will be difficult with huge debt-to-income ratios. You’re in a few hundred THOUSAND DOLLARS in student loan debt… with an average starting salary for college graduates being $30,000-$40,000. It’s going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to buy you first house for many, many years. And, that’s assuming you can even afford the mortgage payments after you pay your student loan payments each money… if you can even qualify for a mortgage with such huge student loans. Many, if not most, people don’t qualify.</p>

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<p>How important is it for you to fence? If you don’t have the heart for the AFA I really don’t think it is a good choice. It sounds like perhaps a gap year is in order for you to start over. You are obviously an impressive candidate. You need more options.</p>

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<p>If you aren’t committed to an AF career, then the AFA probably isn’t for you. Would you still be interested in attending if you were to suffer a career-ending health issue? Think about that. JHU is unaffordable, and you don’t seem too excited about the AFA, I’d encourage you to take another look at UNC-CH if it is affordable.</p>

<p>How important is your fencing to you? Is it necessary to attend one of these three because of the quality of the coaching, or did they just make it to the top of the list because you were recruited? What other options would you have to continue your training and competitions at other institutions where you weren’t specifically recruited? Or, what options might you have if you do take a gap year, and apply to a new set of colleges and universities? That might be a good way to go.</p>

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<p>Wait, what happened to UNC? Why is it not in your subsequent posts? JH sounds too expensive and you sound very ambivalent about the AF (I agree with previous poster, if you are not committed to it it is probably not a good idea).</p>

<p>What about the other school you got into? Did you get FA?</p>

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<p>Lyss, how much are your parents willing and able to pay? How much do they have saved up for college, and how much do you? I ask these questions because the cost of college is supposed to be spread out among past, present, future incomes for both student and parent. I like to say the student should take on about 20-25% of that split and the parents the rest. But you are not supposed to be putting the whole cost on FUTURE income. Especially since past and present is very indicative of that FUTURE. If you and your parents have not been saving in the past for college, can’t come up with any money right now, where the heck do you thing the funds are going to coming from in the future? It scares the bejee out of me when I see kids write that the cost is $60k, the school is giving then $10k and they want to borrow the rest, where do I sign to get the money? </p>

<p>Right now, the way it works is that YOU can borrow $5500 towards your Hopkins cost. Which very nicely fits that formula that I showed you. You need to find a job NOW and start putting away some money, which you should have been doing since you got birthday checks and bills all of your life, and you need to work the summer, since a $4K workstudy award pretty much precludes you from being able to work to meet EFC during the school year. That’ s a lot of job hours for a freshman, IMO. What are your parents willing and able to pay? That is the crucial question here. Because if anyone is going to be borrowing much more than that, it is them. Oh, yes, they might call it co signing, but they will go for your parents social security checks if you drop out, disable, die or otherwise default on these loans. They are excluded from bankruptcy and even “until death do us part” as the living party still has to pay when you are talking about private co signed federally backed school loans. So forget the CO-signing. They would do better borrowing the money themselves and taking your word for it that you will pay it back, as there is at least an insurance component to PLUS in that if either the parent or you die,the loan is forgiven.</p>

<p>How much can your parents pay now? They are not going to magically get the money when those loans come due, and a 22 year old is not going to make enough to make a dent in the type of debt you are thinking of taking. Which will be on both your and your parent’s credit reports causing issues in terms of owing a lot of money. Could hurt you and parents in job opportunities, housing , insurance, all sorts of things.</p>

<p>Read some of Gwgrad’s earlier posts as he is living the reality of owing heavy duty student loans. Bear in mind that he is an example of the best case scenario as he is making a good salary and meeting his payments. That is not the usual outcome.</p>

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<p>wow i was only gone for less than 24 hours and i got all these responses, thank you all.</p>

<p>@gwgrad thank you for that post, it makes me worry a bit for him because he believes that the loans will be worth it in the end and that his parents will pay it off for him (and he will help as well)</p>

<p>@lastminutemom196 For me it is pretty important, the sport has opened SO many doors, meeting my best friends, being able to travel around the US for national tournaments and as of now i am ranked 30th in the country so it’s very important. UNC-CH is around 50k because i am out of state. The environment is very different at the academy, i was able to actually visit in november and had a host show me around for 2 days (recruiting trip) and i really loved the people there and the facility and i’ve always wanted to do something bigger than myself. thank you for the insight, i will definitely think about it.</p>

<p>@momcinco I got into Temple University with a 15k sport scholarship as well as 5k for merit, and sacred heart university with 25k fencing scholarship and merit combined.</p>

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<p>You plan on majoring in something “math related”. What is your career goal? </p>

<p>It sounds like Temple would be a good option because of the scholarship money and your parents’ contribution, you wouldn’t have much/any debt. Is that correct?</p>

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<p>OP, check out the service academy forums for the USAFA. I have a friend with a cadet there right now, 3rd class. The first year is grueling, starting with Basic Training, and doesn’t let up until Acceptance in March. If you are dedicated to serving your country, your chances of making it through are good, but if not, I would say look for other options. I think doubts make the first year especially miserable. Going to visit during regular days would be a lot easier to do than visiting during Basic Training, or “Beast”, or other tough times I’ve been told about!</p>

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<p>lyssxo16…Congrats on your acceptances. They’re all great schools. I’m a little curious why you applied to the AFA if you’re somewhat ambivalent about attending though? If serving your country is something that is important to you (and I hope you wouldn’t have gone through the application process if it wasn’t) I think you’d be very well served by pursuing that option. You would complete your undergrad education with zero debt AND have a guaranteed, solid salary job waiting for you. You can gain several years of practical experience in your chosen field and be able to at least start, and possibly complete, your Master’s degree if you choose to do so.</p>

<p>As others have mentioned though, zero debt does not equal free. Military service requires sacrifice and cost in other areas of your life. Four years at the AFA will provide you an excellent education and a great social environment in it’s own right, but if a party atmosphere is something that’s important to you…you’d best look elsewhere. Military life has a huge impact on your personal life after graduation as well, and should weigh heavily in your decision making process. IMO…the benefits definitely outweight the costs, but that’s something that you’ll need to decide for yourself. Good Luck!!</p>