Of course, considering a transfer is the last place anyone thinks they will land. Understanding that freshman year is often difficult, disconnected and disappointing but then improves in later years, our student would still like to consider the option. The student was initially accepted to top rated schools ( not the ivies, but next tier down) but chose the state school honors college because let’s be honest…it was significantly less expensive. Not to say the state school and honors college didn’t offer everything they were looking for (pretty much) it did, but had $$ not been an issue, the student would have picked something along the lines of UVA, U of Rochester, Wesleyan.
Understanding all the dynamics of freshman year, the student is still looking for a much more intellectual environment, engaging classrooms and engaging teachers. These things all seem to say LAC. So the student is now considering schools along the lines of Amherst. (Understanding that transferring is highly competitive. Student is top 1% of high school, all 5’s on AP’s 1570 SAT, etc. The stats are strong, but so few applicants are accepted as transfer students.) We know this is a significant change from a big state school, but even in the most difficult classes, our student just doesn’t feel challenged. Are we hoping for something that doesn’t exist? Do the small/top rated LAC’s really offer a classroom experience that is completely different?
Anything else we should be thinking about in terms of transferring? Positive/negatives we may not be aware of?
Upper years in the local state school can offer opportunities that you did not find freshman year.
If your student (or you) is very close to the top of the class in a large state school, and if you treat people responsibly, and if you can get to know your professors, then this can for example open up opportunities for internships, coops, or independent research projects even at the state school.
Graduating with a bachelor’s degree, great GPA, great references, and no debt, can be a very good start.
It would be interesting to know the university honors college in question as some receive rave reviews, some mixed, and some reviews depend upon one’s major.
In answer to OP’s question, of course, you can transfer.
Whether or not you should cannot be properly answered without knowing the schools & your intended major & which classes you have taken that you found disappointing.
P.S. If you can transfer to the University of Virginia at resident tuition rates, then that is a very safe move.
Whether Wesleyan or Rochester would be worthwhile depends upon your major, your current school, and your finances.
P.S. If you can afford Amherst College and get admitted and Amherst offers your major, then do it if unhappy with your current school.
Are you currently at ASU-Barrett ?
Also, many National Universities offer what you are seeking as well as the very highest ranked LACs.
Yes, agree, which was the reasoning behind the choice to begin with. We also understand that it will change significantly as their education progresses - I think the experience in and out of the classes will improve and provide more of what they are looking for. As parents, we think all the opportunities are there, just a matter of going after them…but we’re not sure. If we were sure - we would tell them, stick it out - it will get better.
The thing we wonder about is their desire to be surrounded by top students - focused, intellectual, analytical. Not to say they don’t exist at the state school, of course they do. It’s just our student never found high school especially challenging, even in the most difficult courses/AP’s etc., so they were really excited for college because we kept saying “it will be different in college - it will be more challenging” and now they are finding that it isn’t that different. (Even in the most advanced physics, math, economics courses)
But I’m wondering, if what they are looking for, does it exist in a certain college environment (ie. top LAC) or can it be found where they are now with a little work and patience. Is it about the college? or is it about the student?
It exists at Top National Universities and at top LACs and at many public school honors colleges.
So much depends upon your current school, intended major & upon the courses taken which disappointed you.
Were the disappointing courses limited to just honors college students ?
P.S. Intended major is important to know in order to recommend possible transer target schools.
Without more, a broad recommendation is to consider top 25 National Universities & Top 25 LACs. But this can & should be refined by on the student’s intended major.
@ucbalumnus : Agree. In fact, most honors colleges primary benefits claim to include small first year intro. / survey classes.
However, some honors colleges offer only a few honors seminars for their first year students & not necessarily the envisioned “all first year classes would be small for honors students”.
Other benefits such as merit scholarships, priority course selection, and honors housing remain as standard honors college perks.
All good information to have. Thank you for your feedback/thoughts. I will make sure our student researches the options in the upper level classes, make sure the opportunities will still be there.
The major will likely be in the area of math/physics/economics. With the exception of an honors class, they don’t find the classes engaging, despite the classes being exclusively for the very top students in their major. It is just so hard to tell if it is a matter of the student/unrealistic expectations, or if the student really could be at a school that would be a better fit and then of course, would it be worth the extra $$ for that fit.
Lack of intellectual engagement is easy to understand if the first semester freshman student has only one honors class per semester–although your post is a bit confusing regarding “despite the classes being reserved for the very top students in their major”.
And, of course, schools like the University of Chicago, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Northwestern, the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, Notre Dame, Georgetown, WashUStL, etc. are going to provide a much more intellectual environment.
Agree that the honors student needs to look at upper level course offerings at current school versus what is offered at any target transfer school.
I just posted an old & often repeated saying on another thread:
You can make a big school small, but you cannot make a small school big.
OP: You should be able to find what you are seeking at your current school. Often it takes time to grow into a national university. As suggested above, if you want ease of transition and immediate satisfaction, then an LAC probably works better than a large university during one’s first semester & during one’s first year. It can take an entire year in order to find one’s comfort zone at a large university–doesn’t have to be that way, and often isn’t, but the rewards are there in the later years as suggested above.
OP: Transferring to an LAC may be a step back. Why not transfer to an elite National University. Plenty of small classes & lots of intellectual discussion. Lots of comfort to be found & lots of uncomfortable growth experiences to be had.
Math and economics have a few core upper level courses, but are broad enough that different schools’ departments may have different elective selection. In smaller math departments (like at many LACs), the elective selection could be limited, based on the interests of the faculty. Upper level math courses are commonly small. For a math major, depending on post-graduation goals (PhD program / research, finance / actuarial, high school math teacher, etc.), the electives to look for could be different.
Economics can vary in math intensity at different schools (either universities or LACs). The math prerequisites to intermediate microeconomics can give an idea of how math intensive a given department is (high: multivariable calculus; medium: single variable calculus; low: no calculus). The student who likes math may prefer a more math intensive department. Economics tends to be a popular major, so it may have larger departments with more faculty, but often larger class sizes.
Physics has a well defined set of core upper level courses. However, it is often a small major, so departments may be small, and faculty may be consumed teaching service courses to other majors and pre-meds. Check that the core upper level courses are offered with reasonable frequency.
As far as transferring goes, if he wants to transfer at the sophomore level, both college record and high school record / test scores will be important. If he wants to transfer at the junior level, college record will be the most important factor, while high school record / test scores will be less important.
There’s more to college than just what goes on inside the classroom. Sounds like the OP is looking for an overall milieu that is different from her large high school. That’s a perfectly legitimate reason to want to transfer, if what she is feeling is not something that will go away - and her choices are affordable. As a LAC grad, I have a few hoary sayings of my own, such as “You have the rest of your life to work in a big city, but not everyone gets to experience life a small town or college community.”
Every LAC that has been mentioned so far has an outstanding math, physics and economics department.
Yes. I think this is what it may come down to. The intellectual environment has always been a priority and the hope was that the honors college would provide that. It tries, but seems to miss the mark…we think. Again, not sure as we don’t have a point of comparison.
Responding to the question above, there are classes (invite only/based on perfect/near perfect SAT) that are not “honors” classes, but capture the top percentile.
We were under the impression that a LAC would provide the most engaging teaching environments (vs. being researched focus.) You mention Northwestern, while the classes are smaller, isn’t the focus for staff still primarily research and publishing? I understand of course, we are speaking in generalities.
Thank you again for all your comments - it is helpful.
With respect to his/her academic interests, you will find a few available resources:
■ Amherst, Williams, Hamilton, Bowdoin, Haverford, Pomona, Reed and Carleton are some of the highly selective LACs that appear in a Princeton Review sampling, “Great schools for Mathematics Majors.”
You indicated in the initial post that this university was chosen in part because of a significant difference in cost. What has changed since last spring to suddenly make you think it is reasonable to leave the cheap place? Where is the additional money going to come from?
Were any of last year’s admissions offers from places that would be on a transfer application list? If so, contact them and enquire about the process. Sometimes the file only needs to be “up-dated” and a full application isn’t necessary.
Savings from Year 1 at the current institution will help, but yes, that’s the trade off. Hence the question, there may be a school that is a better fit, but how much better and what’s it worth?
There is one T10 school that was a waitlist school that invited them to apply again (but not sure what that’s really worth, maybe just to increase their application numbers, who knows?) . Haven’t checked with the other “yes” schools yet as they aren’t sure if that is what they want this time around.
Also, thank you for the suggestions and the links. We are studying them.