<p>At my house, that would definitely be the child. Heck, I’d be lucky to hold down a C+ in a decently taught HS physics course. </p>
<p>HW is part of his works. He also need to take test/quiz, class work, group experiment project. A needs a good teacher, a good student and also a good parent to support him. A is not that important, but tell us he is learning good no matter how many support he got. </p>
<p>BTW, this class is 4 hr. I didn’t see more overload than his normal school day. He still has a lot of time to read books he likes and plays with his brother</p>
<p>The very best advice I ever got came from my son’s third grade teacher. She said “DO NOT correct any homework that is done by the student. If the parent corrects it, the teacher had NO WAY of knowing where the STUDENT needs help.”</p>
<p>Excellent advice.</p>
<p>So…dear OP. STOP correcting your son’s physics class homework. Let the teacher deal with this. YOU are not taking this course. The teacher doesn’t want to or need to see YOUR corrections. </p>
<p>Your son should be doing this work himself.</p>
<p>If he is not able to do so, he should not be in this class.</p>
<p>To learn physics well, you are supposed to struggle by yourself and ask for help from the teacher if you need it. In regards to checking your work, many times I would do this with my friends in college after we had finished most of problem set and wanted to resolve some questions we had. Parents are not supposed to be helping students do their homework. </p>
<p>@wzg69g, an example of something you would need to memorize in Physics B but not C is the electric or magnetic field of some extended object like a rod or something. If you understood calculus, you could easily derive this using Gauss’s or Amperes law and symmetry considerations. Without understanding calculus, you can’t really understand gauss’s law.</p>
<p>My opinion…this parent is far too involved in “helping” this kiddo with this physics course. If this were a slam dunk for the kid, he would not need parent assistance.</p>
<p>I vote for tennis lesson, swimming lessons, going to camp, learning an instrument, playing on a baseball team, taking a painting class. Almost anything that is NOT science related.</p>
<p>Anyone else remember indianparent? Same notion that pushing a kid into what HE liked as a parent…whether the kid liked it or had any interest in it…was the right thing to do.</p>
<p>A lot has become more clear with more posts. First of all- comment “…neither useful or fun.” At this age it doesn’t need to be useful- and for some physics IS fun. Nothing wrong with choosing physics over other activities if you like it. Totally agree the parent should NOT be involved with the homework. Based on the English used I bet the OP is from an Asian country (my H is Indian, but much more laid back with excellent English, unlike some of his relatives), I suspect Asian who thinks children need to push themselves academically. At first I thought this was a gifted child who chose to do this without parental pushing.</p>
<p>Regarding the physics. Calculus is needed to derive formulas. I was a Chemistry major who had to take college physics and had it in HS- plus physical chemistry. I discovered how much easier it was to take calculus based physics in college. My favorite example is the transformation of speed to/from acceleration- you need calculus to do this. So much easier than memorizing two formulas, with calculus you can switch from one to the other if you forget one. It made the relationship between speed and acceleration we all know exists so easy to see.</p>
<p>I once derived pH from a chemical equation when I forgot it on a medical school biochemistry exam. same principles. Understanding the basics means not having to memorize as much (although it is quicker to remember instead of having to derive).</p>
<p>OP- let your son continue the class IF HE enjoys it and does the homework happily WITHOUT you checking it. Do NOT worry about the grade. At this age it won’t be part of his HS record seen by college admissions. If he chooses to drop out- let him. Consider it an experiment- he’s trying something atypical for his age, it may not work. You and he both learn something for future summers.</p>
<p>btw- I presume he has learned to swim, play baseball, soccer and other age related activities. Consider academic away from home camps for other summers. Those could cover an AP class (semester length one) in 3 weeks but will also offer other activities with intellectual peers and NO parents. My gifted son did those academic camps some summers in HS, plus some music and computer day camps (some from out of town stayed the week for music). He also had swimming lessons and played SAY soccer. He was in HS Orchestra and was on a huge (60 boys and 60 girls- went to state often) cross country HS team. Did rigorous HS and college courses. I am so glad he had more than an academic childhood- if for some reason he had died as a child I would have had no regrets about him missing out on being a kid. </p>
<p>There is plenty of time for him to excel academically- let him lead the way. Do not push him, nor hold him back. He will have an equal chance at a top college and will have enjoyed his childhood. The top scholars in the US (and world) will not have only studied as children. Check the biographies of Nobel Laureates- they were not necessarily way ahead at young ages.</p>
<p>To the OP…there has been a huge increase in anxiety amongst school kids in recent years. Stories like yours make me understand why. Please don’t create a situation of anxiety for your kiddo.</p>
<p>OP, this thread was too painful for me to read. You seem to think you know a lot about things and aren’t willing to listen to those who actually do. I cannot imagine what you were thinking enrolling a 13 year old kid who hasn’t even done algebra1 in an AP physics course. Our school requires at minimum concurrent enrollment in algebra2 for first year physics. </p>
<p>Secondly, there is a big difference between Physics B and Physics C. My daughter completed Physics B this year. She didn’t study. She just breezed right through with perfect scores. And she decided to study on her own for physics C. I was actually quite surprised by how difficult she found it since the math was not an issue for her. I don’t understand why you would dismiss Physics C.</p>
<p>Having in fact taken physics in a 6 week summer school course myself (that was <em>my</em> idea, not my parents), I can say that it was not a good idea. These concepts take a while to sink in. I felt ever after that my foundation was weak and I had difficulty in both my subsequent physics courses. And I already knew calculus at that point, so it’s not like I was also struggling with the basic math. For your child, who doesn’t seem particularly advanced or talented at math, I think it is a huge mistake to be pushing so hard. Let him progress at his own rate, not the rate you think he should have. </p>
<p>You say he didn’t do particularly well in math competition but you’ve already planned out extra summer study and scheduled a whole career of math competitions for him. I think you are setting him up for some serious emotional issues because you are pushing very strong expectations for him and it seems doubtful he will be able to meet them. </p>
<p>I also think that two summers of summer school for a kid this age is not a good plan. Kids need a break. </p>
<p>My point is Physics B is good for kids to learn since it covers more topics than Physics C ME. It is not good for kids to jump to Physics C ME class without taking physics honor class. But many parents believe it wastes time to take one more year on physics B.</p>
<p>OP, you are not hearing what we are saying. Please try to listen. No one has a problem with Physics B. </p>
<p>We have a problem with Physics B for a 13 year old who does not have the developmental readiness for it. Your son is not ready. </p>
<p>You are risking causing him serious emotional damage. We are very worried for your son. </p>
<p>You started this thread asking if you are too tough. </p>
<p>Our answer is YES. And you keep arguing with us. </p>
<p>I won’t comment any more, but please think about it. </p>
<p>You have a very young kid apparently struggling to do this on his own and you are trying to justify this. WHY? Are we supposed to be impressed? You keep telling us he got some A’s, with your help.</p>
<p>You are helicoptering- and making excuses.<br>
This is getting close to trolling.</p>
<p>Wzg, people keep raising major issues with you, and you keep responding with tiny details about the merits of Physics B vs. Physics C.</p>
<p>Physics B is not the point. Physics C is not the point. Your town’s high school not allowing kids to double up on AP classes is not the point. The point is that you seem to be worried primarily about situating your kid for Harvard or Stanford, and that’s setting him (and you) up for years of anxiety and disappointment. </p>
<p>From everything you’ve written (here and in other threads), your son is on track to do very well and probably get into a fine college. If, after a few years of high school, it turns out that he has stats to be competitive for Harvard, great. Having taken only two rather than three AP sciences isn’t going to keep him out. He probably won’t get in in either case, most kids don’t.</p>
<p>I’m a big believer that it is sometimes worth playing (ethical) games to get what you want, and of course parents should guide their kids to make good decisions. But having a 12 year old spend his summer vacation doing physics and throwing a fit because he has been placed in accelerated math and not super accelerated math is excessive.</p>
<p>If you told me that your kid was a math/science genius being prevented from taking top classes because of a silly, outdated placement test he had taken in fifth grade, I might agree that you’d have to take some extraordinary measures to make sure he got the support he needs. From everything you’ve written, however, that doesn’t seem to be the case: while your son probably would have been capable of doing algebra in 7th grade (as many, many kids whose schools don’t even offer that option are), his SAT scores and math competition results suggest a fairly ordinarily gifted student rather than a superstar. Given that, the placement is probably within the realm of reasonable, and not keeping him from achieving great things. Taking a class in eighth grade rather than seventh isn’t the difference between a year of utter boredom and a year of exciting discovery - nor is it the difference between Harvard and a state school.</p>
<p>Calm down. Let your son figure out what he wants, within reason. If your son is really pushing for it, he can always take college or online courses a few years down the road. And for goodness sake, don’t spend the next few years filling his head with the idea that whether or not he gets to take multivariable calc in high school or not is of vital importance.</p>
<p>What is the goal here? Why is it so important to study physics at such a young age–and apparently the boy is only 12, not 13 as I mistakenly stated above. The physicists I know all were exceptionally talented and self-motivated in math. Mom was not sitting them down and teaching them algebra at age 12. They had already taught it to themselves on their own initiative.</p>
<p>Same as you guys, I asked myself if it is too tough. Yes, it is. But it is still reasonable since he did well so far. Actually I don’t think he must follow the steps to study physics until 11th grade. I even think he study physics can help him understand algebra and geometry. Why need to wait for everything is ready? Start it early doesn’t mean push him too much. I saw he enjoy to discuss HW with me. Why needs to wait for teacher to answer/correct questions? It is impossible to let summer school answer every questions you have. I want to say not to take it seriously. Physics or Math. To my son, they are same. </p>
<p>He only did well with your help, right? Please answer that question.</p>
<p>Why don’t you homeschool him? Then you have complete control. You can be school board, principal, teacher and homework helper, all in one. </p>
<p>I try to combine all of them together. No one can deny the benefits of classroom and teach face to face and do group experiment with classmates.</p>
<p>Why is this being done for a 12 year old? Is this to get the AP Physics B requirement in before it changes to Physics 1 and 2? Will he be taking the AP exam? </p>
<p>I have to wonder if the motivation for this is bc the class is at a “prestigious school” and she wants her ds to have some sort of connection to the school.</p>
<p>Anyone with common sense would not put a prealg kid in a non-conceptual physics class. As soon as she found out it wasn’t conceptual physics, she should acknowledged his deficit and have withdrawn her ds. </p>
<p>If she was more interested in setting her ds to have the best foundation for higher level studies vs attempting to prove something to ??? she would focus more on his math skills than his science classes. </p>
<p>Thing is that she is going to be sorely disappointed if she thinks this is going to make her ds stand out long term. It won’t. There are far too many kids who are actually doing what she is attempting to do bc it is simply who they are. They are the Math Camp type kids who took their first alg class at 9or 10. They are the kids that beg mom to please let them take alg and counting&probability at the same time. They are the kids who spend hours on the AoPS forums making friends with kids that get as excited about not being able to solve a math problem as they do. They exude enthusiasm for the challenges the thrive in and are having a blast. These moms have to put on the brakes for their kids bc the kids want to do it all, not wonder if they are pushing too hard.</p>
<p>These kids go into physics classes with top notch problem solving skills and take the approach that someone else in this thread mentioned. They can derive every formula they need and they do exactly that for fun bc they want to prove to themselves why. They can do it bc they possess the math skills to do it. Physics is simply an extension of what they enjoy in math. They are the kids attending science and math camps, not summer school.</p>
<p>And no, I do not believe a kid that has only taken math through pre-alg can come close to that without mom showing him. Understanding what someone else has done and replicating it is not the same as you proving it yourself. Avg kids do the first. The really strong kids…they do the latter. </p>
<p>It all comes down to the math. Conceptual physics before alg…great. But, no, not a class which requires at minimum 2 math courses he hasn’t even taken. Alg this summer would have made at least logical sense. But it probably wasn’t attached to prestige.</p>
<p>wzg69g…clearly, you don’t care at all what anyone here is saying to you. For the life of me, I can’t figure put why you started this thread. You are obsessed with higher level coursework and SAT scores…for a TWELVE year old. This is beyond tough. It’s ridiculous. </p>
<p>There is plenty of time for your preteen kid to take higher level physics courses. There are plenty of programs that incorporate the ideas in physics in a fun way. Your kid does NOT need to be taking a physics course this summer. Not at all…and certainly not one where you have to help him with the work. That should be telling to you.</p>
<p>And there is precious LITTLE time for him to actually be a youngster, without all of YOUR adult expectations. These years fly by…a shame your guy isn’t getting to be a 12 year old.</p>
<p>Hope you all don’t regret this pushing later on in life.</p>
<p>ETA…Your child needs to do this work himself. That WILL be the expectation in high school and in college. Do you plan to continue to correct his homework then? If so, it isn’t going to help the kid. And some might view it as cheating.</p>