Top 10 U.S. Universities in Terms of International Prestige and Name-Recognition

indydukie · July 9, 2005, 12:46pm

I think people care because they actually may look for employment abroad, if only temporarily.

I can assure you that a Harvard degree often gets people hired internationally, sight unseen. Not fair, but true--especially in the Far East.

I've lived all over the place (Europe, Asia), and can assure you that Duke (in red on this thread !) has strong name recognition in most developed countries.

I was surprised to see no mention of of Dartmouth--also well-known and highly respected abroad. Middlebury as well, especially because of the strength of its foreign language instruction.

But as someone else pointed out, most people only care about their own systems at the end of the day. For instance, the maqjority of English or French (or Canadians, for that matter) get a huge kick out of the fact that we are willing to pay unthinkable amounts for a 'top' education, while they can attend the Sorbonne or Cambridge or McGill for a tiny fraction of that amount for what they view as superior educations. Of course, competition is fierce...but it is here as well. We get the twin spectres of astronomical costs plus daunting 'getting-in' odds with respect to top schools!

HGTRUMPET01 · July 9, 2005, 5:45pm

Where does Darthmouth stand? Is it like the lowest Ivy?

Rollo · July 9, 2005, 8:48pm

Dartmouth is a big name in the US; however, many in Europe may confuse it with Darthmouth the British Naval Academy.

sugar_150 · July 9, 2005, 11:43pm

UCLA is NOT a world renown university for it's education! just because your university name appears on a jersey or basketball hat in foot locker doesn't make it a good, university. UCLA is only good for it's athletics and that's it! And i would also have to say that many of the state universities are not well known internationally either, my list for the ones that i think are good would be
1) MIT
2) Harvard
3) Yale / Princeton

I have to say that many of the grades coming out of Harvard are not measuring up to their potential. I really like MIT cause they spend money on valuable research, and many Nobel Prize laureates have been produced there. But for international appeal Harvard is still #1

sugar_150 · July 9, 2005, 11:55pm

uWarwick as a fourth year Biochemistry student from Canada, I agree with you big time, MIT when it comes to science is a 10X better than Harvard.

DRab · July 10, 2005, 1:13am

I disagree: all of the foreigners that i know greatly respect UCLA

irock1ce · July 10, 2005, 1:14am

Although MIT may trounce Harvard when it comes to engineering, in math as well as bio, chem and physics and such, Harvard measures up quite well against MIT. Look at the rankings.

unlimitedx · July 10, 2005, 2:16pm

Harvard has the unique "ring" when it's said.

UCLAri · July 10, 2005, 9:59pm

[quote]
UCLA is NOT a world renown university for it's education! just because your university name appears on a jersey or basketball hat in foot locker doesn't make it a good, university. UCLA is only good for it's athletics and that's it! And i would also have to say that many of the state universities are not well known internationally either, my list for the ones that i think are good would be
1) MIT
2) Harvard
3) Yale / Princeton

I have to say that many of the grades coming out of Harvard are not measuring up to their potential. I really like MIT cause they spend money on valuable research, and many Nobel Prize laureates have been produced there. But for international appeal Harvard is still #1

[/quote]

And you sir have no idea what you're talking about. May I ask what your "international" experience is that allows you to make such a blanket statment?

sugar_150 · July 11, 2005, 4:56pm

I have travelled to many parts of europe and even preticipated in an exchange, many europeans, and canadians, don't care much for American universities, we only care when or if we can't get into our own. When you speak of which universities are KNOWN as being great learning institutions, UCLA is not on the list,ppl only know it for it's athletics, and what they know about california, most don't even know what it stands for. If I was not a big fan of the NCAA i wouldn't really know much about UCLA or many of the other state schools. But most ppl know of Harvard. On another note, many ppl buy into the hype of american universities, not because of what they know about their undergrad and grad programs, or organizations, but because of the media.

UCLAri · July 11, 2005, 5:28pm

Okay, well in my experience UCLA is known for its academics in circles that matter. I have yet to meet someone in learned areas that looks at UCLA as "just another state school."

And what's with this vitriol aimed at American universities? I don't know about you, but it's a lot more than just "hype." In case you haven't noticed, American universities are still at the top of their game. I'll take any of the top 25 or even top 50 schools over most of what the world has to offer anyday. There are notable exceptions, but the US still has damn fine schools.

Either way, who cares? I sure don't. It's not like I really care what someone in Belgium thinks about my university. As the saying goes, no matter what you do with your life, 1.4 billion Chinese people just don't care.

Flavian · July 11, 2005, 8:51pm

[quote]
Although MIT may trounce Harvard when it comes to engineering, in math as well as bio, chem and physics and such, Harvard measures up quite well against MIT. Look at the rankings.

[/quote]

No, only in engineering. Last year, USNEWS rated Harvard better than MIT in graduate school for both math and physics. Harvard has more faculty in the academy of science than any other school.

sakky · July 11, 2005, 9:15pm

[quote]
Last year, USNEWS rated Harvard better than MIT in graduate school for both math and physics.

[/quote]

Is that so? So what's this I see here?:

Physics (Ph.D.)
1. California Institute of Technology 5.0
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.0
3. Harvard University (MA) 4.9

<a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/phdsci/brief/phy_brief.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/phdsci/brief/phy_brief.php</a>

Mathematics
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.0
2. Harvard University (MA) 4.9

<a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/phdsci/brief/mat_brief.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/phdsci/brief/mat_brief.php</a>

Granted, these rankings were taken in 2002. However, they are the latest rankings for Math and Physics that are available at USNews. USNews did not remeasure Math or Physics last year, so the 2002 rankings are the most recent figures (and they are what is available if you buy the printed copy of the latest "America's Best Graduate Schools" or if you buy the online premium version).

UCLAri · July 11, 2005, 9:16pm

I would still say that members in the Academies is almost a better indicator of department strength.

USNews rankings, if only you would let your grasp on our education go...

sakky · July 11, 2005, 9:32pm

Since I have the USNews premium edition, let me continue the analysis of science graduate school rankings, comparing MIT vs. Haravrd:

Computer Science:

<ol>
<li> Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 4.9
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.9
Stanford University (CA) 4.9
University of CaliforniaBerkeley 4.9 </li>
<li> University of IllinoisUrbana-Champaign 4.6
...</li>
<li> Columbia University (NY) 3.7
Duke University (NC) 3.7
Harvard University (MA) 3.7
Purdue UniversityWest Lafayette (IN) 3.7
University of CaliforniaSan Diego </li>
</ol>

Chemistry
1. University of CaliforniaBerkeley 5.0
2. California Institute of Technology 4.9
Harvard University (MA) 4.9
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.9

Biological Sciences:

<ol>
<li> Stanford University (CA) 4.9 </li>
<li> Harvard University (MA) 4.8
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8
University of CaliforniaBerkeley 4.8 </li>
</ol>

Geology:
1. California Institute of Technology 4.9
2. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8
3. Stanford University (CA) 4.5
University of California-Berkeley 4.5
5. Columbia University (NY) 4.3
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 4.3
7. Harvard University (MA) 4.1
Pennsylvania State University-University Park 4.1
University of Arizona

Applied Mathematics:
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.7
New York University 4.7
3. California Institute of Technology 4.6
...
21. Harvard University (MA) 3.7

So let's see. According to USNews, when it comes to graduate departments in the physical sciences and math, MIT ties Harvard in 2 categories (Chemistry and Biological Sciences), edges out Harvard in 2 other categories (Physics and Mathematics), and decisively beats Harvard in 3 other categories (Computer Science, Geology, and Applied Mathematics).

For fun, let's also look at the most quantitative of the social sciences, which I think we can all agree is economics.

<ol>
<li> Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.0
University of Chicago 5.0 </li>
<li> Harvard University (MA) 4.9
Princeton University (NJ) 4.9
Stanford University (CA) 4.9
University of CaliforniaBerkeley 4.9 </li>
</ol>

So MIT edges out Harvard on this one too.

Now don't get me wrong. I have great respect for Harvard. In particular, Harvard definitely has some extremely strong science departments. Being tied for second in Mathematics, Chemistry, and Biological Sciences, and tied for 3rd in physics is nothing to sneeze at. And of course Harvard is extremely strong in professional schools, humanities, and social sciences (being tied for 3rd in economics is no small achievement). Harvard Business School edges out the the MIT-Sloan School, and clearly Harvard has a better Polisci department than does MIT (although MIT is ranked a respectable 10th).

But the point is that USNews does not in any way indicate that Harvard is better than MIT when it comes to graduate science departments.

molliebatmit · July 11, 2005, 10:20pm

[quote]

I would still say that members in the Academies is almost a better indicator of department strength.

[/quote]

Well, okay. But maybe an even better indicator would be percentage of faculty members in a given department who are members of the NAS.

Harvard has a huge biology faculty (including, of course, a medical school), while MIT's biology department has only 67 faculty members (but 30 NAS members in biology-related categories).

orbis_somnio · July 12, 2005, 7:26pm

Let's blame Glenn Seaborg for Berkeley's fame, and also Berkelium and Californium. They were all discovered at Cal arn't they? =P

I noticed in sakky's rankings of grad schools in the engineering/math/science fields, Berkeley consistently ranks in the top 5... To be honest... I was surprised.

UCLA is not only recognized for its atheletics. It has strengths in the sciences too, mainly biology. My friend who was accepted to Harvard will be attending UCLA in the fall.

orbis_somnio · July 12, 2005, 7:35pm

Also, my ranking of US schools in terms of prestige...

<ol>
<li>Harvard (you can't deny...)
2.
3.
4.
5.</li>
</ol>

2-5: MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Yale. They could be placed in any order... (I am asian and from the west coast.) No surprise?

UCLAri · July 12, 2005, 9:03pm

[quote]
UCLA is not only recognized for its atheletics. It has strengths in the sciences too, mainly biology. My friend who was accepted to Harvard will be attending UCLA in the fall.

[/quote]

It also has top 10 departments in many social sciences and humanities. It's an all around powerhouse school.

sakky · July 12, 2005, 9:46pm

[quote]
I noticed in sakky's rankings of grad schools in the engineering/math/science fields, Berkeley consistently ranks in the top 5... To be honest... I was surprised.

[/quote]

That shouldn't be surprising in the least. Berkeley's prestige has always stemmed from its illustrious PhD programs. I have always maintained that if you want to get your PhD, Berkeley is one of the best places in the world to get it.

[quote]
UCLA is not only recognized for its atheletics. It has strengths in the sciences too, mainly biology.

[/quote]

Really? Let's consult USNews Premium edition again, graduate department rankings:

Biological Sciences:
1. Stanford University (CA) 4.9
2. Harvard University (MA) 4.8
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8
University of CaliforniaBerkeley 4.8
5. California Institute of Technology 4.7
Johns Hopkins University (MD) 4.7
University of CaliforniaSan Francisco 4.7
8. Rockefeller University (NY) 4.6
9. Princeton University (NJ) 4.5
Scripps Research Institute (CA) 4.5
Yale University (CT) 4.5
12. Duke University (NC) 4.4
University of WisconsinMadison 4.4
14. Columbia University (NY) 4.3
Cornell University (NY) 4.3
University of CaliforniaSan Diego 4.3
University of MichiganAnn Arbor 4.3
University of Texas Southwestern Medical CenterDallas 4.3
Washington University in St. Louis 4.3
*20. University of CaliforniaLos Angeles 4.2 *
University of Chicago 4.2
University of Washington 4.2

Chemistry:
1. University of CaliforniaBerkeley 5.0
2. California Institute of Technology 4.9
Harvard University (MA) 4.9
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.9
5. Stanford University (CA) 4.8
6. Scripps Research Institute (CA) 4.5
University of IllinoisUrbana-Champaign 4.5
8. Columbia University (NY) 4.4
Cornell University (NY) 4.4
University of WisconsinMadison 4.4
*11. University of CaliforniaLos Angeles 4.3 *

Geology
1. California Institute of Technology 4.9
2. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8
3. Stanford University (CA) 4.5
University of California-Berkeley 4.5
5. Columbia University (NY) 4.3
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 4.3
7. Harvard University (MA) 4.1
Pennsylvania State University-University Park 4.1
University of Arizona 4.1
10. University of Chicago 4.0
11. Cornell University (NY) 3.9
Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.9
Princeton University (NJ) 3.9
*University of California-Los Angeles 3.9 *
University of California-San Diego 3.9
University of Texas-Austin

Physics
1. California Institute of Technology 5.0
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.0
3. Harvard University (MA) 4.9
Princeton University (NJ) 4.9
Stanford University (CA) 4.9
University of CaliforniaBerkeley 4.9
7. Cornell University (NY) 4.6
University of Chicago 4.6
9. University of IllinoisUrbana-Champaign 4.5
10. Columbia University (NY) 4.3
University of CaliforniaSanta Barbara 4.3
12. Yale University (CT) 4.2
13. University of MarylandCollege Park 4.1
University of MichiganAnn Arbor 4.1
University of TexasAustin 4.1
16. ** University of CaliforniaLos Angeles 4.0 **
University of CaliforniaSan Diego 4.0
University of Washington 4.0
University of WisconsinMadison

Computer Science:

<ol>
<li> Carnegie-Mellon University 4.9
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.9
Stanford University (CA) 4.9
University of CaliforniaBerkeley 4.9 </li>
<li> University of IllinoisUrbana-Champaign 4.6 </li>
<li> Cornell University (NY) 4.5 </li>
<li> University of TexasAustin 4.4
University of Washington 4.4 </li>
<li> Princeton University (NJ) 4.3 </li>
<li> California Institute of Technology 4.1
University of WisconsinMadison 4.1 </li>
<li> Georgia Institute of Technology 4.0
University of MarylandCollege Park 4.0 </li>
<li> Brown University (RI) 3.9
** University of CaliforniaLos Angeles 3.9 **
University of MichiganAnn Arbor</li>
</ol>

Uh, so it seems to me that Biology is actually one of UCLA's weakest graduate science departments. If anything, UCLA should be touting its strength in chemistry or geology, not in biology, because it has a far better ranking in chemistry or geology than in biology.

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