Top 100 rankings using Hawkette method and 2008 data

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Using the very wise Hawkette’s method of examining the most consistent hard data available, SAT and ACT scores, I thought it would be interesting to see how the current USNWR top 100 list would shake out using 2008 (the latest) SAT and ACT admissions data. Hawkette describes her/his method as thus:</p>

<p>“One way that I have measured this is to compare the achievement levels of each school’s student body on the SAT and the ACT exams. I looked at absolute barriers (700 on the CR and Math SAT and 30 on the ACT) and asked what percentage of the student body achieved at these levels. As the data attests, the usual suspects top the list and IMO, the order is a reasonable listing of student body quality at these colleges. </p>

<p>Rank , Total Score , School , Critical Reading SAT (25% weight) , Math SAT (25% weight) , ACT (50% weight)” </p>

<p>(Back to me) A few observations:</p>

<p>1 , Eight schools rose into the top 50 : Tulane climbing the highest to 28, along with Miami of Fl to 38, Worchester Poly to 42, Tulsa to 43, American U to 45, Colorado Sch. of Mines to 46, Pepperdine to 48, and Pitt to 50. Of the schools cracking the top 50, Tulsa had the largest leap, rising 40 places from 83.</p>

<p>2 , The California public UC schools did not fare well under this system. One has to wonder what it is about the USNWR criteria that is protecting those currently tied for 44th – S. Barbara, Davis, Irvine – with their top 50 status. SB fell to 70, Davis to 84, and Irvine to 96. And Berkeley, UCLA, and San Diego, while certainly remaining in the top 50, all had significant drops.</p>

<p>3 , Another mystery is the low showing (92) of Penn State, a current USNWR top 50 school. When measured against other schools’ SAT and ACT achievement, PSU did not perform well.</p>

<p>4 , BYU had the largest overall leap in rankings, from 113 to 55.</p>

<li> Harvard does not list admissions data on Peterson’s, so it did not make my list. </li>
</ol>

<p>6 , Thoughts…???</p>

<ul>
<li>(USNWR current rank)</li>
</ul>

<p>Rank; Total; School; SATW 25%; SATM25%; ACT50%
1 , 93.5% , Caltech , 76, 100 ,99 *(6)
2 , 81.5% , Wash U 64,77,92 (12)
3 , 80% , Princeton 73,77,85 (2)
4 , 77.8% , MIT 58,85,84 (14)
5 , 76.5% , Yale 77,77,76 (3)
6 , 70% , Notre Dame 50,64,83 (18)
7 , 69.8% , Northwestern 61,66,76 (12)
8 , 69.5% , Dartmouth 65,67,73 (11)
9 , 69.3% , Stanford 57,66,77 (4)
10 , 69% , Columbia 64,66,73 (8)
10 , 69% , Vanderbilt 47,66,82 (18)
12, 68% , Duke 60,68,72 (8)
12 , 68% , U Penn 52,70,75 (6)
14 , 64.8% , Rice 53,64,71 (17)
15 , 64.5% , U Chicago 62,60,68 (8)
16 , 64% , Emory 45,61,75 (18)
17 , 63.5% , Tufts 62,62,65 (28)
18 , 63% , Brown 57,63,66 (16)
19 , 60.8% , Cornell 41,64,69 (14)
20 , 59.3% , Carnegie Mellon 37,66,67 (22)
21 , 57.8% , Johns Hopkins 42,59,65 (15)
22 , 55% , Georgetown 54,56,55 (23)
23 , 52.3% , USC 35,50,63 (27)
24 , 50.8% , Brandeis 38,43,61 (31)
25 , 48.8% , Boston Coll 29,42,62 (34)
26 , 48% , W&M 41,35,58, (32)
27 , 43.8% , Tulane 43,24,54 (51)
28 , 40.3% , Case Western 24,41,48 (41)
29 , 40% , UC Berkeley 29,51,40 (21)
30 , 39.8% , NYU 32,37,45 (33)
31 , 39.0% , U Michigan 22,46,44 (26)
32 , 37.3% , U Rochester 22,41,43 (35)
33 , 36% , U Virginia 32,40,36 (23)
34 , 35.5% , Georgia Tech 19,47,38 (35)
34 , 35.5% , Wake Forest (28)
36 , 34.5% UCLA 20,40,39 (25)
37 , 33.8% , U Illinois 16,47,36 (40)
38 , 32.8% , U North Carolina 25,30,38 (30)
38 , 32.8 , U of Miami (FL) 20,27,42 (51)
40 , 31.5% , U Wisconsin 14,40,35 (35)
41 , 30.3% , Rensselaer 23,52,23 (41)
42 , 30% Worchester Poly 13,37,35 (71)
43 , 29% U Tulsa 27,23,33 (83)
44 , 28.8% , Lehigh 17,40,29 (35)
45 , 27% American University 25,17,33 (83)
46 , 26% Colorado School of Mines 12,28,32 (80)
47 , 25.5% , U Florida 17,25,30 (49)
48. 25.3 ; Pepperdine 16,19,33 (56)
49 , 24.5% , UCSD 11,29,29 (35)
50 , 24.3% U of Pittsburgh 20,21,28 (58)
51 , 24% Northeastern 12,24,30 (96)
52 , 23.8% , U Texas 16,25,27 (47)
53 , 23.5% U Maryland 17,30, 23.5 (53)
53 , 23.5% Illinois Inst. Tech 9,27,29 (102)
55 , 23% BYU 16,18,29 (113)
56 , 22.8% Boston U 17,22,26 (60)
57 , 22.5% George Washington 19,21,25 (53)
58 , 22% UMinn Twin Cities 28,18,21 (61)
58 , 22% SMU 13,19,28 (66)
60 , 21% SUNY Binghamton 12,24,24 (77)
61 , 20.5% Stevens Inst. Tech 16,31,20.5 (83)
62 , 20% Clemson 9,17,27 (61)
62 , 20% U Oklahoma 12,12,28 (108)
63 , 19% , Ohio State 11,19,23 (56)
64 , 18% St. Louis University 10,12,25 (80)
65 , 17.5% , U Washington 12,16,21 (41)
66 , 16.8% U Nebraska 15,18,17 (89)
67 , 16.3% U Georgia 11,14,20 (58)
68 , 16% Texas A&M 9,15,20 (64)
69 , 15.8% Fordham 14,11,19 (61)
70 , 15% U Denver 8,12,20 (89)
70 , 15.% , UC Santa Barbara 11,13,18 (44)
72 , 14.8% U Iowa 14,19,13 (66)
72 , 14.8% Purdue 5,14,20 (66)
72 , 14.8 Iowa State 14,21,12 (89)
75 , 14.5% Auburn 7,11,20 (96)
75 , 14.5 Clark 15,9,17 (80)
75 , 14.5% Marquette 9,9,20 (77)
78 , 14.3% Miami of Ohio 8,11,19 (66)
79 , 14% U Delaware 11,13,16 (71)
80 , 13.8% Mizzou 13,10,15 (96)
81 , 13.3% Baylor 12,15, 13 (76)
81 , 13.3% U Tennessee 7,8,19 (108)
83 , 12.75 U Colorado 7,10,17 (77)
84 , 12.5% , UC Davis 8,16,13 (44)
84 , 12.5% U South Carolina 7,9,17 (108)
84 , 12.5% Indiana U 7,9,17 (71)
87 , 12.3% U Dayton 7,10,16 (108)
88 , 12% U Pacific 6,18,12 (102)
89 , 11.5% U Conn 7,13,13 (66)
89 , 11.5% U Vermont 9,7,15
91 , 11.3% Michigan State 8,13,12 (71)
92 , 11% , Penn State 15,7,11 (47)
93 , 10.5% VA Tech 7,14,10.5 (71)
93 , 10.5% U Alabama 7,7,14 (83)
95 , 9.8% NC State 5,12,11 (83)
96 , 9.5% , UC Irvine 8,18,6 (44)
97 , 8.5% SUNY Stony Brook 4,13,8.5 (96)
97 , 8.5% FL State 7,7,10 (102)
99 , 8.3% UC Santa Cruz 7,8,9 ( 96)
100 , 7.5% UMASS 6,8,8</p>

2

<p>BYU is actually a really good school, there are 4 people in the top 20% of my school going there next year.</p>

<p>Tulane, UMiami, WPI, Tulsa, American, Pepperdine, and Pitt are all really underrated excellent schools (especially Tulsa) that deserve a “promotion” in the rankings.</p>

<p>I’m not surprised by any of this, Northeastern is a very good school, I’m just shocked that my school Clemson isn’t in the top 10 :p</p>

3

<p>I think it goes both ways with this ranking. I can agree with some of the schools that moved up that are underrated and deserve to be ranked better but the UCs should be ranked higher.</p>

4

<p>This method hurts large schools that accept students with a wide variety of scores and then refine them from there. It is designed to measure the “intelligence” (as assessed by standardized tests) of the whole student body. Whether this is valuable depends on your own needs.</p>

5

<p>What I don’t understand is how those measurements have anything to do with the strength of a university?</p>

6

<p>well it just measures the caliber of the student body accepted to these students
it has nothing to do with the “strength” of the university outside of the perceived “smartness” of the student body based on SAT/ACT scores only</p>

7

<p>Tyler, the same question could be asked regarding the value of an outmoded beauty contest known as “peer assessment,” which garners 25 percent of a school’s USNWR ranking. SAT and ACT scores reflect the peer group of students attracted and accepted to certain schools. Presumably bright, high achieving students would be attracted to attendant institutions, ergo it has a lot to do with strength of university. Bright kids (and their parents) will not tolerate mediocre or bad schools.</p>

8

<p>It is nearly impossible to have a hard ranking system of universities. I credit USNWR with doing a remarkable job on marketing the value of their ranking system, because it doesn’t mean a thing in the real world.
Test scores of its student body in high school are so far from what a great higher education institution should be measured upon. That is important up til and not after your first day of college.<br>
How do rank a school on the basis of the degree to which their students are prepared to handle the real world, are able to achieve quality employment in fields they enjoy and are able to enter graduate work with a strong working knowledge of their field? How do you measure a new graduates ability to adapt to other jobs outside of what the ideally would like to be doing or hit the ground running in a new career with a definitive track for upward mobility?</p>

<p>These are the issues facing new graduates right now, and probably for the next decade. This is what 9 out of 10 students are going to run into immediately after finishing their undergrad…
Maximizing your growth process through your adolescence and the ability to achieve and overcome during the human experience is what really measures a successful individual.
Prestige of your college and your SAT scores cannot help you with that.</p>

9

<p>^I agree with Vegas, sometimes people are too worried about the prestige of the school rather than going to a school that would match the person’s talents, career interests and that will prepare them for the workforce or academia</p>

10

<p>Vegas and Pierre, the point I’m trying to make with this alternative list is that there are other ways of measuring value and “prestige” than through what USNWR says.</p>

11

<p>WPI used to be in the top 50 = (</p>

12

<p>yeah I know, I have no problem with what you are trying to do
just trying to tell people who may be trying to pick colleges according to your list that there prestige is not everything</p>

13

<p>SAT and ACT are virtually measuring the same thing. You probably don’t need to include both. The quantity</p>

<p>Z<em>scores(SAT)*yield/admission</em>rate</p>

<p>is more meaningful, and it could closely follow the USNWR’s rankings. The SAT scores do not vary linearly. Any measure using SAT scores directly will not give meaningful results.</p>

14

<p>ewho, at some schools in the midwest, more students take the ACT than the SAT so it is important to include both</p>

15

<p>Washington University at #2…i wish :P</p>

16

<p>SAT/ACT scores are not the only measure of intelligence. Neither measures creativity, personality, maturity, motivation, analysis. </p>

<p>A university is many things and the student body is certainly a large part of what a university is. But its not the end game either. Depth of programs, faculty depth (and credentials), and some other factors like student/teacher ratios, facilities, etc. all go into what makes up a university and presumably its overall ranking.</p>

<p>Statistics can be (and frequently are) manipulated to accomplish an objective. </p>

<p>There is a certain segment of society and the annual college applicant pool who no matter how much you advise them otherwise, will select colleges based solely on superficial rankings. I have always found it somewhat humorous because supposedly high SAT scorers should be “smart enough” to know that picking a college on rankings alone, which are based upon the avg. SAT scores of “classmates” is a fool’s errand. </p>

<p>Diversity of socio-economic backgrounds, academic backgrounds, geographic backgrounds, racial and ethnic backgrounds, religious backgrounds and even SAT scores in a pool of accepted students making up an incoming class at any college is a good thing. </p>

<p>No, its not an attempt to flatten out the rankings and make all colleges alike. Hardly. There are tiers in colleges. But there are also variant objectives and expectations of incoming students with all sorts of SAT scores/stats. </p>

<p>Just as someone might be extremely unhappy at a Tier 3 or 4 school, one might also be very unhappy at Harvard, Princeton or Yale. </p>

<p>I am just glad we have so many choices and so many places for kids to attain a post secondary education. That is good for them and good for society as a whole. (Though we still have too many lawyers and MBA’s running around! LOL)</p>

<p>Pick the best school for YOU, not what your peers are saying or some ubiquitous ranking in USNWR. And once you are admitted, embrace your school and hopefully don’t return to CC to obsess anymore about it.</p>

17

<p>This ranking is a joke</p>

18

<p>This makes USNWR look amazing.</p>

19

<p>Why are people getting so bent out of shape?</p>

<p>This isn’t meant to be some new, correct, ultimate ranking…this is just a different way of looking at the colleges.</p>

<p>The same can be done for athletic titles, food rating, dorm rating, number of URM, etc.<br>
Nobody came on here and claimed this was the BEST ranking available. Everyone calm down :-P.</p>

20

<p>Some schools don’t weigh SAT scores as much as they do GPAs. Some also superscore SATs. Therefore, SATs alone aren’t a good measure of school standard.</p>