Top 100 Universities - Most Diverse, Most Integrated?

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“he can create for himself the kind of social environment he is looking for.”

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Alumother, I think you will find this to be true. As you point out, one of the great advantages of living in the SF Bay Area is the diversity, and students from here become familiar with that aspect. Without that being a strict criterion beforehand, I found it interesting that my S chose his living group based on diversity. That’s exactly what he said when he called within the first weeks of school, “It’s a great house, and it is so diverse.” His living group has everything from internationals, to Asian, Indian, and African Americans to students from all parts of the United States and along all socioeconomic lines from South Central L.A. to summer homes on Cape Cod. Even more, there is diversity in age and experience from older students who’ve completed national service to the 16 yr-old wunderkinds. I also think my S is enjoying the vast US cultural divide as much as anything—from East Coast, to West Coast, from Middle America to the Southern half. It is all home for him now. </p>

<p>Most interesting to me among the mix, he has developed a real affinity for the older Scandinavian Euros. He looks just like them, and he has always been mature for his age. Perhaps this recognition of self is a deep subconscious affinity and explains self-segregation. I know they are providing a different kind of role model that he never had in his Bay Area public HS. His high-achieving Asian, Indian, and many International friends were his life-savers in high school. He had so much respect and admiration for them, but I think he always felt socially distinct. </p>

<p>I don’t know, but the issue of self-segregation is an interesting one. One of the stats on Berkeley is the high number of students who have both parents of foreign-born origin. I read on one of their homepages that it was close to 56%. Though my S has many HS friends of all nationalities at Berkeley who still hang together and love their experience, he did say that many first generation parents dictated living arrangements. I think this speaks to a cultural first-generation divide as much as anything, and it can be found on any campus. As students mature, they form more independent identities. Or not. </p>

<p>I don’t have any answers, but I enjoy your many musings and enjoy drifting along.</p>

<p>I'm sure you thought of this, but if he likes the idea of New York City, then NYU might be a safety school for him as an Ivy-level applicant. In some ways, NYU students connect more directly with their neighborhood of Greenwich Village, which is their "sidewalk campus." The only bit of green they have is Washington Park, which lately has been a source of irritation, I read on CC, as regressing into sleazy again after a long revival as a park, but hopefully that's temporary. If S isn't bothered by "no greenery except for Washington Park" then perhaps NYU might go onto his safety list, remembering too that Central Park is just a subway hop away, too. </p>

<p>I'm going to indulge in a description of Columbia U's neighborhood, as a baseline for you when he looks at other East Coast urban campuses. Perhaps it'll help him sift out when some say, "ooh, that's in a dangerous neighborhood" which I've heard and wondered how to interpret when someone compares UCLA to USC for me, and I'm clueless what it looks or feels like, would it matter to me, etc.</p>

<p>Columbia U's neighborhood functions differently than NYU, where the kids immediately "hit the streets" of Greenwich Village as they exit their dorms. Columbia's campus itself is enclosed and quite the Ivy bubble/sanctuary for a few blocks, lovely buildings around a central campus green. Once you exit the gates on either side, he'd find an upscale academic neighborhood (Morningside Heights) characterized by not only Columbia residents but the students, faculty and cafes/bookstores that also serve several venerable graduate schools: Union Theological Seminary (Protestant), and Jewish Theological Seminary (Conservative Movement, as compared to Orthodox or Reform), Bank St. Teachers College. These institutions have a wide impact a mile around Columbia in all directions, so it's a bit like Notre Dame in Paris, I always feel, with the gothic architecture and ethnic cafes, etc., along Amsterdam ave. Feels sophisticated to me as I walk around. </p>

<p>Then the next outer ring of neighborhoods is the Hudson River to the west (fish only) and Harlem to the north and east. Harlem, which begins about a half-mile from Columbia's Morningside Heights neighborhood, is NOT the high-crime district as it was in the '60's and '70's, comparative statistics bear this out. It is enjoying a cultural renaissance. My S lives on 125th St, sharing an apt. with 2 women, so that's 2 Caucasians and an Asian college grads now working in the city. They chose Harlem because rents are affordable, the apartment newly renovated and it's right on the great subway stop at 125th which is an express connecting them quickly all over the city (one fare costs $2 anywhere within NYC, it's a great system that pulls every borough together economically). I've stayed with him many times and enjoy 125th St., a main commercial boulevard of Harlem. </p>

<p>This would be a real widening dimension for your S to discover whenever he's not burrowed into his studies. Walking a few blocks onward, he could intersect with MLK Blvd, Malcolm X Blvd, or Adam Clayton Powell Blvd and wave to Bill Clinton's offices there. Eat soul food, take in a show at the Apollo or hear some jazz at a club right where Duke Ellington began. I'm not sure every single Columbia undergrad is open to this experience or even has time for it, but it's another dimension to discover outside the university.</p>

<p>In Harlem, I'm usually right on 125th St. or heading for the subway station, but one year I did a housing swap with a couple, Caucasian, living in a brownstone off a sidestreet. That was a gentrifying neighborhood, which is its own economic story: privately renovated brownstones, one-at-a-time, push out the poorest residents of the neighborhood when rents spike. And yet, as a result, Harlem is now an integrated neighborhood that retains, unquestionably, an African American sensibility, with AA middle/upperclass residents and others who can afford the new higher rents or own the brownstones outright. Remember it was the place, where, in early 20th century, when AA's left farms in the rural South, they were ghettoized to live in the neighborhood north of 120th, so that's where the "Harlem Renaissance" of the 1920's began, with Billie Holiday, Duke Ellington, Langston Hughes and all the rest. </p>

<p>I indulge in all of this, so that if/when you also consider UPenn or U of Chicago, which I've heard described as "in a rough neighborhood" you'll have a kind of urban-planner's baseline to ask the source what they mean. Obviously, as a struggling actor in NYC, my S chose Harlem as the affordable alternative so he could still live in Manhattan, in smaller quarters than he'd find in Brooklyn where other struggling artists congregate and simply subway into central Manhattan. Obviously, he found roommates with similar think-outside-the-box mentality in search of housing. This summer, when one roommate moves on, they'll register as off-campus housing and anticipate no problem finding a Columbia grad student that way. I'm not suggesting this as housing for a new undergrad, but am just trying to describe what are some questions to ask about urban neighborhoods surrounding East Coast universities. You don't want to feel that you can't step foot beyond the university without getting hurt, but that is absolutely NOT the situation in Harlem, which borders Morningside Heights.</p>

<p>I've never been to UPenn or U of Chicago, so I can't describe those communities. Even now, I feel humbled to go on about Columbia since I've only been there as a visiting Mom to the neighborhood. I'm sure genuine NYC residents or parents of Columbia students could add to this. </p>

<p>NYU is really straightforward; anyone who thinks NYU is "too dangerous because my parents are afraid of NYC" needs to either reeducate/ignore their parents or just not apply, IMO. If a family feels upset to see poor people or people of every race walking down the streets, then definitely stay out of New York City because that attitude just doesn't fit. </p>

<p>Something I've heard said about Columbia is that students think they'll spend more time playing in NYC than they really do, once studies begin! But I'm sure that's a very individual call. The subway beckons...</p>

<p>Your D's comment from Princeton is another approach, to simply go and find those who share perceptions for social equity, through campus organizations and activities for example. Sounds like he's just yearning for a wider lens, here, than the ghettoized upper-middle-class culture. The question might be, for him, whether he seeks it with his feet (go to an urban university) or in the life of the mind (go outside of the cities into Ivies such as Princeton). And I must duck before I go bashing Yale, but it has some of the worst town-gown relations of anyplace, sadly, re: New Haven, which is a poor city in Connecticut. Every other reason to apply to Yale, but don't go expecting a charming interaction with New Haven. Harvard, well, that's heaven in terms of university location in Cambridge so I won't even talk about it, it's heaven.</p>

<p>My son was looking for diversity in college- socioeconomic diversity. He had gone to a private school for 6 years that was very diverse in terms of race, but not income/affluence. There's not a whole lot of differences between a caucasion, african american, and asian if they've all three been raised in a 10 million dollar estate with all the trappings.
He found his diversity in a public university.</p>

<p>I've never visited Stanford - so I can't attest to the accuracy of his friend's statments - I can only share his words. This student (who will be a junior next year) found the racial/ethnic diversity he wanted. But, he didn't find that to be associated with "socio-political" diversity - he said there was more of that in his public school. </p>

<p>He finds discussion to be relatively boring because, in his words, "everyone here is liberal." He misses arguing with conservatives and libertarians, and fundamentalists, etc. Instead of "debate" he finds everyone nodding in agreement.</p>

<p>paying3tuitions - thank you for that thoughtful post on Columbia. </p>

<p>I do agree it is the wider lens he seeks - and he also hopes not to go somewhere where everyone is knee jerk liberal, as that characterized his grammar school days:).</p>

<p>I wonder if so many girls think of debate as a good thing....</p>

<p>Your son should look at the University of Chicago, if he's interested in a core curriculum. The student body is quite diverse, I think. As a first year I was placed to live with three other girls randomly: one is Hispanic, one is Indian, and one is Asian. I have friends from Chicago, the west coast, the south, New England, Florida, Texas, Ireland, Scotland, Hong Kong, Nigeria, etc. It doesn't feel that diverse to be honest with you, but once I thought through my friends and the people I live with, I realized that it actually is quite racially and ethnically diverse. People do not just hang out with people from their own background (I've seen this particularly among Asian and African American students at other schools and in other places), and I think the discussion-style classes make people interact with, respect, and become friends with a variety of very different people. Tons of romantic relationships are with people from different countries or backgrounds; actually, few people I know are currently dating within their race/ethnicity. With a new $100 million donation to financial aid, there will likely be more students from less advantageous backgrounds coming in the next few years. </p>

<p>The politics and opinions of students are very diverse; I'm friends with people in the religious right as well as socialists. There is a lot of political dialogue, mostly based on the idealogical stances and less about, say, oil prices or gay marriage. The Economics department is known as being very conservative, but other departments are liberal. There is an interesting mix on campus. There is a lot of respect and a lot of discussion at the U of C. </p>

<p>Further, the University is located in Hyde Park, which is a neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago. Hyde Park is 42.5% white, 37.7% black, 4.11% Hispanic, 11.3% Asian, and 3.39% "other," including, of course, people affiliated with the University. The South Side of Chicago has a lot of poverty and is a big change from almost any private grammar school. The Hyde Park area itself is kept pretty safe for an urban environment, but further south of campus is a whole different world. I wouldn't suggest going down there, and I wouldn't encourage your son to, but the south side--beyond campus--is probably as different as could be from a typical white, preppy, rich school. The fact that there is tremendous crime and poverty if you go south beyond campus makes a lot of people uncomfortable, but your son probably won't mind. Hyde Park is diverse but pretty safe, so don't worry too much about the campus area.</p>

<p>^Chicago is where my son's friend "wished" he had gone - and where he recommends my son go!</p>

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All I can possibly say is to quote the ol' song,"One man's Heaven is another man's Hell.";)</p>

<p>Sorry for OT, but Cambridge = heaven? It must have changed a lot since I was there.</p>

<p>For the record...I said "heaven" only "in terms of university location in Cambridge" when describing urban locations of top East Coast universities! Kind of a hybrid of Mapquest and Peterson's Guide.</p>

<p>For many, heaven can't be found anywhere east of the Mississippi ;)</p>

<p>Alumother, I've been following this thread with interest. My daughter was also very interested in diversity when she was doing her college search, but she was looking at lower tier LAC's. I think you've really hit the nail on the head thinking of not just the numbers but how well everyone mixes. </p>

<p>We went to my daughters graduation last week and I was reminded again of how much my daughters world outlook has broadened because of her college's diversity. Her college is the only one of our religon in the world. 12% of the students are international and 92% are from out of state. Because they are very generous with financial and merit aid, students come from many different socio-economic backgrounds. Pretty much the only thing they have in common is their religon, which makes for lots of debates. And yes girls, at least my girl, loves to debate.</p>

<p>How has her world view expanded? For one, she thinks that traveling anywhere in the world is a possibility. Within one year she went to Peru twice and Kenya in between. Oh, and she stopped in England on the way to visit friends doing study abroads there. Her trip to Kenya was with a college friend who had invited her to go home with her. In August she will leave for China to teach for a year there.</p>

<p>Her fellow American friends are from all parts of the U.S. Her boyfriend is from California. After graduation, she and 7 of her friends drove up to Wisconsin for a vacation - and not one of them is from Wisconsin. One of her closest friends lives in CT, and because that's the East Coast, she considers her, "close to home". </p>

<p>Her college sponsors the annual Pan-African conference where the students are active participants and coordinators. Most students do study abroads. Now the downside to all this is that the boyfriend lives in California (WRONG coast!) and she's going to China for a year :) </p>

<p>I remember her saying her freshman year that many of the international students tended to hang out as a group and that disappointed her but after the first year, many of them branched out. </p>

<p>Anyway, good luck with your search, I think it's an admirable one!</p>

<p>D and I have attended 5 universities info sessions and campus tours. Each school used a promo film to show diversity on their campus. I failed to see the same amount of diversity during the campus tour. Northwestern seemed the least racially diverse and UNC-CH appeared the most diverse. As far as self segregation….the only minority group I saw in abundance were Asians and they did seem to be in groups.</p>

<p>Wow four pages and nothing? Boston U. 8th most Internationals of any school. People from every state in the U.S. and all different backgrounds.</p>

<p>Black: 3%
Hispanic: 5%
Asian: 13%
White: 54%
Out-of-state: 77%</p>

<p>I think the figures for Black and Asian are higher--I think it's around 6-7% black and ~16% asian.</p>

<p>Why is Princeton first when Stanford's numbers look more diverse???</p>

<p>Rutgers University is quite diverse</p>

<p>Reflectivemom - I interpret the political dynamics at Stanford differently than your son or his friend. I know more conservatives than liberals at Stanford. And, I have found this surprising and shocking today. </p>

<p>I think the issue your son's friend may be picking up, is the "lack of debate."</p>

<p>I have seen this at other schools, too. Kids want to get along and be agreeable, it is often taught that it is "impolite" to discuss politics, the Conservatives realize they made a terrible mistake and have a hard time today defending their position.</p>

<p>I have to put in a plug for Yale. While the numbers at HYP all look about the same, D had an opportunity to participate in admitted students day for all three. In her mind, while all three had diverse populations, there was far more integration of all groups at Yale. The funny thing is, we (her parents) had the same impression just watching current students walk to class or sit at lunch. If I had to guess why - I think it has to do with the Residential College system. From the beginning, kids are grouped with their college. </p>

<p>I think most of us gravitate towards the familiar. So - I arrive on campus and I look for other kids who seem like me. At Harvard, kids "block" themselves in small groups after the first year, so it would make sense that the athletes will be together, artists, etc. D had a great time at Princeton, but the current students seemed to be somewhat separated by race. Everyone seemed to be really nice to others not in their group. Actually, Princeton is slowly moving to a residential system much like Yale's but it is in transition. I would suspect that it is their way of lessening the impact of the eating clubs without being too heavy handed. </p>

<p>Obviously - this is just one opinion, one experience - but something to consider.</p>

<p>Rice is similar due to the residential college system -more interplay and relationships between different cultural groups due to the res college bonding that happens at the orientation week, and continues through activities, college sports teams, and res college sponsored events.</p>

<p>The American University of Paris is the most diverse university in the entire WORLD. Basically, everyone is a minority. Yay cross-cultural education! :)</p>

<p>I’m trying to figure out why you responded to a post from 2007?</p>