<p>My son plans to go on to law school after college. We (parents) did not go to law school but have many, many, many friends who did so we have been given loads of opinions on the topic of law school. Son is currently a college freshman so it is a little early to make plans because critical pieces (such as LSAT) are missing. One thing we keep hearing is "If you do not go to either a T14 or at least a T30 law school it is not worth the cost of going".
Is this true? What about going to your in state option? How crucial is it to go to a T14 or T30 law school?</p>
<p>It depends on a few factors such as what you want to do and how much you have in the bank. If you can afford to drop $250k on law school without too much bother, then a number of law schools become more reasonable options. If you aren’t interested in the high-prestige jobs like clerking, BigFed, or BigLaw, then you can more safely go down the ranks scholarship hunting. Freshman is pretty young to have any idea of the nuances of the “where would you like to be in 10 years” question. I recommend waiting until your son is actually looking at law schools before posing this question. For all you know, halfway through he’ll change his mind and go into software engineering and won’t be interested in law at all.</p>
<p>It does not make any sense to pay for private law schools outside of the top 14 these days - once upon a time, the top 30 made sense to pay for.</p>
<p>But if your son is in Florida and wants to pay sticker price (all of ten grand a year) for UF, go right ahead. If your son can get a full ride at a private school, consider that. But even in-state at a school like UConnisn’t worth it - it’s still a hundred-thousand dollar degree.</p>
<p>Which is to say: some law schools are not worth the price, no matter what you want to do (unless you are somehow guaranteed a BigLaw job). Others make sense no matter what (like Harvard). Some are great bargains (like UF, if you are a state resident). The majority of law schools, however, are not worth the sticker price.</p>
<p>Many thanks for the great responses! Your answers are helpful!</p>
<p>I understand that freshman year is on the early side for this but I think it is never too early to come up with a broad plan. My son is very active in an organization where he works closely with attorneys so he sees their “world” and most of his activities align with a path toward law school. He seems very set on this path. Right now he is very focused on maintaining a good GPA because without that he will be very limited in whatever he decides to do!</p>
<p>@Ariesathena - we are in FLorida. For the price UF ( and FSU or FIU) seems like a deal but are out of the T30 so I appreciate your input.</p>
<p>quite frankly, if your son can’t get big money from a ~#30 law school, he should not go. (Or he should retake the LSAT and apply the next year.) The employment statistics fall significantly once one drops to even ~#15.</p>
<p>If someone knows he/she wants to remain in-state to practice, then getting a lower-cost degree from an in-state public makes a lot of sense for the networking/summer associate opportunities, and the fact that local firms will recognize the strengths of that program.</p>
<p>sportsmom, your son seems off to a strong start in committing to earning a good GPA. We were surprised just exactly how good (i.e., well above Dean’s List territory) the median GPAs for applicants to T14 and T30 schools are. Best of luck to him!</p>
<p>It’s all about pedigree; the bigger the name of the school, the better the chances of getting a job(and stay focused on that-law school is job training, and if you can’t get a job after graduation, it’s been a pointless exercise). That’s why there’s so much emphasis on “T14”, although there’s a good argument that it’s really about “T5” to get a job(definitely) after graduation. All that said, if your state school is inexpensive, relatively speaking, and your student wants to stay in that state and definitely wants to be a lawyer, then it’s probably worth it. But always remember that the name of the school will affect employment opportunities, and to be ever-mindful of debt. Very few law grads walk into the 160K jobs, so plan accordingly. Also note that many lesser-ranked law schools offer what are called “renewable” scholarships; these require the awardee to hit certain performance marks(in other words, a certain GPA) at the end of first year. If the GPA isn’t achieved, then the scholarship is withdrawn. At that point, the student has 2 years of 70K a year expenses to get to the degree, and it’s a tough call as to whether it’s worth it. Debt is a terrible burden on students, especially those with iffy job prospects.
Final note: Only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer. Don’t fall for the “you can do anything with a law degree” canard. It wasn’t true in the 80s when I went to school, and isn’t true now. You can practice law with a law degree. Period.</p>
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<p>Except that local firms are rarely hiring. And most of the low-cost publics have extremely high un- and underemployment statistics. (The latter includes jobs that don’t require a JD.)</p>
<p>The opportunity cost to spend three years of life to get a JD and go back to being a barista is a huge financial (and emotional) risk. That being said, someone who wants to practice in Texas or Georgia or Alabama would probably be much better attending the state flagship, at least for job hunting.</p>
<p>Humm Blue, just curious why would a Texan who wants to work in Texas be better off attending UT than a Californian who wants to work in California would be attending UCLA? Is that a matter of un or under employment of the UCLA graduates? Just wondering since UCLA is ranked 15th and UT is 16th.</p>
<p>UF is ranked somewhere around number 40, I think, and has a very strong IP programme. It’s also the only game in town. (Note that the same applies to schools like Arizona.) I wouldn’t underestimate the value of being at the best school around - yes, the Emory or Duke grad may trump the UF grad, but, again, for the most part, you’ve got the best pedigree.</p>
<p>On the flip side, beware of small legal markets with lots of good schools.</p>
<p>here are the stats for last year’s big law hiring from two sources:</p>
<p>[Law</a> Blog’s Best Big Law Feeder Schools - Law Blog - WSJ](<a href=“Law Blog's Best Big Law Feeder Schools - WSJ”>Law Blog's Best Big Law Feeder Schools - WSJ)</p>
<p>[THE</a> GO-TO LAW SCHOOLS](<a href=“http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202543436520&THE_GOTO_LAW_SCHOOLS&slreturn=20130020034700]THE”>http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202543436520&THE_GOTO_LAW_SCHOOLS&slreturn=20130020034700)</p>
<p>when looking at the placement stats for yale, stanford, and harvard, it’s very important to note that big law placement is less important because so many of their students go into clerkship/academia. additionally, the stats help show that us news rankings don’t really mean all that much besides providing a general guideline. for example, schools like usc and fordham have notably better big law placement than their respective rankings may indicate (and a few schools, by default, have worse big law placement than us news would indicate).</p>
<p>in deciding which school to attend, career goals, geographical preferences in location, and scholarship money are the three most important factors to consider. so in short, until these three factors are apparent, it’s hard to answer the OP’s question. </p>
<p>also, i knew i wanted to go to law school in high school. my advice to your son: work hard and take things one step at a time.</p>
<p>Thanks for the additional comments! All of the advice is helpful! </p>
<p>Also, from The Brian: “in deciding which school to attend, career goals, geographical preferences in location, and scholarship money are the three most important factors to consider. so in short, until these three factors are apparent, it’s hard to answer the OP’s question.”</p>
<p>Very good point! In addition, since he is a freshman, he could mess up the GPA or tank on the LSAT ( I do not think these things will happen but we never know) which would make talking about T14 or T30 ridiculous! I am asking about this subject because there were things I wish I had known when he was a freshman in high school and then again after he had gone through the college application/selection process. I am sure there will plenty of room for mistakes with this but the fewer the better!</p>
<p>Again, thanks to all!</p>
<p>You’re son is a freshman. None of us have a crystal ball and know what things will be like when he finishes law school.</p>
<p>Right now, if you go to one of the top 6 law schools (first group Yale, Harvard, Stanford; 2d Columbia, Chicago, NYU) you can get a job anywhere unless you have serious personality or other issues. Next group of schools for the top 14 in no particular order–Cornell, Penn, UVa, Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, Berkeley, UMichigan–are almost as good, but are still a little regional and folks in the bottom 20% may have trouble getting a job, depending on the economy. Just below them are UTexas and UCLA, which are every bit as good academically as some of the schools in the 7-14 group but don’t have the national alumni network. If you want to practice in CA or TX, you’re probably better off going to them than the 7-14 group, particularly a far away law school. So, if you want to practice in Texas, Duke vs Texas is a real question. Cornell vs. Texas–go to Texas. </p>
<p>Below that, go to the strongest law school in the region where you want to practice law IF it doesn’t have a law school in the top 14. So, going to UF would be fine if you want to practice in Florida, but realize that it would be almost impossible to land a job straight out of law school in Philly or San Francisco from UF. </p>
<p>Ironically, if you want to work for one of the “do gooder” organizations, e.g., the ACLU, going to the best law school you can is even MORE important. </p>
<p>Other than getting a high gpa and getting some exposure to what the practice of law is really like if he can and participating in a meaningful way in at least one EC, your S really doesn’t have to do anything else.</p>
<p>Knowing that I don’t want to work in BigLaw already…</p>
<p>Rutgers U. - Newark (part-time)
Rutgers U. - Camden (part-time)</p>
<p>I recently graduated from Rutgers U. -New Brunswick with a BS Computer Science and have full time offers of 70+k/year from various consulting firms and defense contractors. If I decide to attend law school part time, I would be going for nearly free as public universities are tuition-free for members who serve in the National Guard.</p>
<p>I would not be looking at attending other law schools because it’s just not worth the opportunity cost and educational debt (I have $0 loans right now).</p>
<p>Keep in mind, many law schools offer big merit $$$.
Apply to some financial safeties where your stats place you in the top 25th percentile and watch the money pour in!</p>
<p>^^^^ I did not know that merit $$ was available in Law school. I was under the impression that the student / family pretty much had to foot the entire bill with cash & loans. Appreciate this information - will look into this - thanks.</p>
<p>Be very careful with so-called merit aid. It often comes with GPA stipulations, and the curve ensures many people will lose their scholarships after their first year.</p>
<p>Great point, Demosthenes. A very helpful article: <a href=“How Law Students Lose the Grant Game, and How Schools Win - The New York Times”>How Law Students Lose the Grant Game, and How Schools Win - The New York Times;
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<p>There was a movement afoot in 2011 to make law schools more transparent about the numbers of students who lost first-year scholarships due to GPA stipulations. Don’t know what happened there, but it’s something students need to be aware of. The schools my daughter considered seriously required only a 2.0 to renew, which is well below the median at most law schools. If a student has always scored comfortably above a 3.0, or 3.25, or whatever the benchmark is for renewing a merit scholarship, he/she may think it will be no problem to meet those stipulations. But you can’t know how well you’ll do in law school until you’re in law school.</p>
<p>sportsmom2016, you’ll definitely want to poke around for info about law school merit money. I believe that only Harvard, Stanford, and Yale are need-only.</p>
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<p>I’m grateful for NJ State Tuition Waiver which doesn’t have a GPA stipulation. Another big one is the Post 9/11 GI Bill which provides up to $40,000/year for up to 4 years.</p>