I am am extremely average students at a highly competitive public school. 3.5/3.8 gpa and 32 act. I live in a highly inflated area of Southern California and because of this my family takes in an income placing us comfortably in the one percent nationally. Needless to say I will be abstaining from applying for need based aid. My main question is if there is any way this “status” will give me any significant admissions breaks at any top twenty colleges as I know many of them are publicly need-blind. Will EA or ED give me an edge on applicants from less fortunate backgrounds? and does completely not applying for any aid help my chances.
Carleton is a highly ranked LAC that says they are not need blind for students on the cusp of admission.
I’m not sure those stats would be on the cusp unless the 3.5 is in the top 10%.
Maybe not. ACT is just over the 50% mark. OP, the problem is that top schools usually also have large endowments. They don’t need to compromise on academic standards for your tuition dollars. As you go farther down the rankings, it is a different story.
Inless you’re in a position to promise several million dollars to a new endowed position, or a library wing, you have no ‘hook’.
While it’s certainly not a “hook”, I have to believe that at need aware schools, the ability to pay in full gives some slight advantage for students on the fringe (last 5%? 10%? of admits).
I’ve recently been googling and reading the faculty meeting minutes at schools that D is interested in. They really provide a good sense of the priorities of the school, and their financial position in addressing those priorities. In some cases, one definitely gets the sense that being full pay might help.
I think you do have an advantage to the extent you apply ED to a school, especially a high priced school in the #15-20 range. I have noticed a trend of certain schools filling more and more of their class from ED. If you are applying ED and are not requesting financial aid, the school knows you are a full pay who will come to the school if admitted. Whereas the later applicants are assumed to be applying to multiple schools looking for scholarships or financial aid. I have definitely seen a relatively weaker applicant get in ED and then a stronger applicant denied or wait listed in the spring.
A little outdated but perhaps still helpful: http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2010/03/23/colleges-where-need-for-aid-can-hurt-admission-odds
The advantages that accrue to students from wealthy families generally come in the preparation stage, such as being able to attend a high quality public or private high school that prepares the student well for college.
In addition, some aspects of the application process at some colleges can tilt the applicant and admit pool toward students from wealthy families, even though the college may not explicitly and directly favor no-need and less-need applicants:
- Emphasis on SAT/ACT scores -- students from wealthy families are more likely to have test preparation resources.
- SAT subject tests -- students from poorer families may attend high schools where these are "not on the radar".
- CSS Profile required for financial aid applicants -- another form for students from poorer families to remember and pay for.
- CSS Profile Non-Custodial Parent form -- can effectively screen out students with financial need from divorced parents who are not cooperative.
- Recommendations -- students from wealthy families are more likely to attend high schools where recommendations are an expected part of the application process, and counselors and teachers are used to writing them.
- Interviews -- most interviewers are alumni and thus upper middle to upper class, so students from such backgrounds will automatically have matching mannerisms, while students from poorer families may have to train themselves to avoid awkwardness.
- Legacy -- excludes first-generation-to-college students, who tend to come from poorer families. Obviously does not help a student from a wealthy family who is not a legacy, though.
Also, many colleges have poor financial aid, so that students with financial need may not bother to apply (i.e. less competition for admission) or may not attend if admitted (i.e. lower yield, so college must admit more to fill its class).
Why do you think your 3.5/3.8 and 32 ACT is “extremely average”? Your GPA is better than average, and your ACT score is really good. It all depends on the schools to which you apply.
Few of the USNWR top 20 universities or top 20 LACs are need-aware. The few exceptions (like Carleton or Wesleyan) may be out-of-reach for your stats.
Relatively high-ranking, need-aware colleges that may be within reach for your stats include:
Bates College
Brandeis University
Colby College
Colorado College
Connecticut College
Franklin and Marshall College
Macalester College
Oberlin College
Occidental College
Reed College
Skidmore College
St. Olaf College
Trinity College
Whitman College
Willamette University
American University
Case Western Reserve University
Clark University
Creighton University
DePauw University
Drexel University
Fairfield University
Furman University
George Washington University
Gettysburg College
Pepperdine University
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Rochester Institute of Technology
Trinity University
University of Denver
Villanova University
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission
You also should have a good shot at many public flagships (other than the most selective “public Ivies” such as Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVa, etc.)
Your stats are NOT extremely average…not at all!
But…the GPA may be an issue at top schools…most, if not all, are need blind.
What are your parents saying? Are they OK with being full pay? Please ASK them how much they’ll pay each year.
You do realize that you can get big dollars from a number of amazing schools besides the so-called top 20, right?
Bottom line: if a school is need-aware, you have an advantage as a full-tuition payer. Not a huge advantage, but if it is a close call, you get the nod over someone who needs substantial financial aid.
Most of the very top schools are need-blind, but not all of them.
@tk21769 Thanks for the great list! Our family has a uneven financial profile, with income about 120K but well over a million in non-retirement money, i.e. brokerage account and 529s. (Due to dual inheritances). So we are assuming our D2017 will be full pay, with that being her only hook (if it is even that) besides geographical location. We are in NC. Her dream school is Reed, with plans for ED1. SAT (new) 730V, 660M, with 21/24 on writing, and GPA weighted about 3.8. Few ECs. Her first 2 years were at average public school, though she did just as well much more competitive private. She met with a rep from Conn Coll and likd that, and I have bugging her with Oberlin and Skidmore for months, since she loves Reed.
But the single most elusive info for me to find on CC and in numerous books is this: just how much does full-pay help? I suppose not at all at the tippy-tops, but what about the LACs ranked, say, 25 to 60 by USNews? Combine that full-pay with ED, is it just the last 5% who only get the boost?
@Ryell56 Sorry to co-opt your post! Great question I had been wanting to ask, and you have with modesty and grace. Pay attention to the above posters. I have been lurking on CC for months, and notice the ones with tens of thousands of posts. They have a wealth of knowledge
Possibly USC.
I think being full-pay is more advantageous during transfer admissions (to a place like USC).
Oh, and Columbia SGS, but you’d need a break of at least a year in your academic career in order to apply there.
A big advantage with being able to pay isn’t so much having an edge in admissions to the top privates in the US, but being able to afford OOS to top publics like UMich & UVa (also Cal and UCLA) and schools known for poor fin aid like NYU as well as being able to afford top 10 unis in the UK.
In any case, why are you focusing on the top 20? Your stats are above average, but the Ivies/equivalents look for more than just good stats and altogether offer roughly 1% of total college slots in this country. So why not expand your search to the top 50 unis and LACs offering roughly 10% of total slots?
@tk21769 wow great list I am confused by your mention of public colleges though. My assumption was that they were always need blind but does me applying to an out of state school like Michigan, UVA or Washington (I live in CA) give me an edge on admissions because I’ll be paying out of state fees?
Edge compared to in-state at those publics? No. But even for OOS, in general, UMich and UVa are slightly easier to get in to than the Ivies/equivalents (that’s true of Cal and UCLA as well). Though they would not be sure things and it may depend on what major/school you apply to. UW would be far easier to get in to (outside of CS).
Most engineering majors also appear to be substantially more selective than the overall school is at Washington.
@PurpleTitan, although “easier” than Michigan and Virginia, not likely with a 3.5 UW GPA. Also, OOS students need higher-than-average stats to be competitive for admission.
@ucbalumnus About 10% of students who express an interest in studying engineering at UW are directly admitted to engineering majors as freshmen. The rest apply to their majors at the end of their freshman or sophomore year, and “note,” admission is competitive.
https://www.engr.washington.edu/current/admissions/admitstats
“Of course,” OP did not mention CS or engineering as a possible major.