<p>Oh yes I forgot about Economics. But outside of that, there is hardly ever any homework in humanities/social science classes (which constitute the majority of classes) and the claim that the majority of Berkeley profs test on things which do not appear on homework is therefore ridiculous since for the majority of Berkeley profs do not assign homework in the first place.</p>
<p>That was an ad hominem attack about people making ad hominem attacks. LoL. Ok you got me there. So what? It deserves to be pointed out that most of the arguments have largely been ad hominem attacks directed against my credibility rather than the substantive points in my post.</p>
<p>If you're saying Berkeley's housing is cheap you are insane. It costs normally around 550-700 for a single, crapp quality room with a shared bathroom and kitchen. This IS more expensive than most areas. Pricing takes into account a lot of things, most importantly quality. Berkeley prices very highly for really crappy qualtiy housing. THis is not hyperbole and anyone that visits can ask around to see that its true.</p>
<p>The comparison with Stanford is not a fair one either, the market price is only what they charge upper middle class and rich students who attend. People lower down in the income brackets can expect much more financial support than they would from Berkeley.</p>
<p>Insofar as US News ranking is concerned, it is clouded by the rankings of Berkeley's graduate programs which are by far outstanding, but the quality of the undergraduate program is not nearly as high quality in my, yes, highly subjective viewpoint. There are a lot of idiosyncrasies. Even Boalt doesn't give Berkeley undergraduates an "advantage" when applying to Boalt according to released index adjustment numbers numbers. Wheras places like harvard gets around a 90 index , Berkeley students get little to no advantage with an average index score of about 70. Rather odd considering that Berkeley is suppose to suffer from deflation; it seems that going to Berkeley really offers no advantage to students moving on (outside of the professional undergraduate programs) even though it is tougher and has no problem out bad grades, even sometimes arbritary ones.</p>
<p>You do have assumptions, you assumed that somehow my points were libelous according to your own arbritary standard. I don't care if you're a friend of free speech, but whats to stop other people from saying the same about your posts? There's nothing I've said that hasn't been agreed to by at least one person. Maybe different people will experience different things.</p>
<p>My first point was that there were higher tuition costs. The point remains valid, its been rising faster than the rate of inflation and other colleges (due to California's budget problems) and is now more expensive than before. Its especially true for out-of-staters who see their prices jacked up about 20-30% a year. I don't know what you're talking about with credit hours, it wasn't mentioned in my initial post.</p>
<p>"Your point about housing, when put in context of other universities, becomes empty. Unless youre criticizing all universities, Berkeleys housing might actually be a better deal because of the generally higher prices of housing in this area (compared to other states). Also, two years of housing are now guaranteed."</p>
<p>When in the context of price relative to quality, Berkeley has incredibly crappy housing. I already listed about the average price for a crappy single room with shared utilities being around 500-750 dollars. Oftentimes these rooms will be in old crappy houses that the landlord decided to turn a quick buck on renting to students. Anyone that has questions about housing can go check out the surrounding areas themselves and ask around, I listed prices and my subjective view of quality. People can decide for themselves. Housing at Berkeley is by no means great.</p>
<p>"Poor quality peers. Where does that come from? Are they lacking in intelligence, statistical performance, accomplishments?"</p>
<p>I said it was subjective and recounted stories about it. Insofar as quality and manner of peers is concerned, the point was that you can't expect to have a minimum standard at berkeley and will meet many idiots. The weeding out process doesn't seem to work very well in my opinion. There are also books written about how obnoxious californians are. Maybe if you're from California you won't notice it, but I stand by my statements its generally because people tolerate throughly anti-social behavior too much. </p>
<p>For another example of how poor-quality the peers are, I tried to join a boalt law journal even though I was an undergraduate. Unfortunately, some undergrad business students had done the same thing a year before and because of that, the law students refused to have any more undergraduates join. I can only imagine it was because they were the generally untalented people I was talking about and didn't do their work. Its nothing definitive to be sure, but it does seem to imply that a lot of choices that you may not know of will be constrained just because there are too many people at Berkeley.</p>
<p>"Poor opportunities for generalists. Compared to? I think the availability to different things, many of which people havent heard of prior to coming here, make it more easy to find new, different things. Doing everything? Thats tough, especially considering that there are so many different activities, lectures, concerts, and more available on campus and in the Bay area."</p>
<p>I listed several activities which all sucked. For example the clubs which are mostly empty with a few super-clubs that are little more than excuses to party. I already listed my experiences going to them, not some vague generalization. A few of the people I met have complained that Berkeley clubs have problems getting anyone to come because so very few people often come to events, wheras places like Stanford always get speakers easily. I also mentioned how the thick liberal veneer of berkeley affected intellectual discourse at such events such that they became meaningless exercises in vanity. I also mentioned how a lack of professor oversight over many projects usually makes these extracurriculars even less productive than they were in high school. These are things that matter and you will notice if you try things. These are just my experiences, maybe you've gone to some great things; I wouldn't know, I can just recount my story to people. As I said, I didn't know what I was going to do when I came here. The point was that there are so many students and only very few positions so the competition tends to be quite cut-throat. </p>
<p>A few of my generalizations may not hold true, I admitted to that as much due to the selection bias of only recounting from my own experiences and what I've heard from friends. However, I've tried to elaborate on why I think it is so, so people who read my points can decide for themselves how valid they are. They can also use the points to frame their own questions about Berkeley if and when they come here. </p>
<p>I've had bad professors here, granted most were not in the fuzzy majors but the harder science/math ones. They were also in economics, so I will modify my point to only encompass professors in the the harder sciences and economics who have taught the classes I've taken.</p>
<p>Sure, Berkeley has a lot of good points and I already said if you were a very motivated person who knew what you were doing you could make the most of it. In my opinion however, Berkeley is more like a typical public university and people would be better served to realize that going to a local state institution (UCLA, UT, UW) would pretty much result in the same experience, probably better in many aspects with some caveats.</p>
<p>I'm not opening up my private mail box, I don't need people spamming me with insults.</p>
<p>You are super silly.</p>
<p>Im not saying Berkeleys housing is cheap. Im saying its what you would expect to pay. Not exceptional. Its California. Got it? Its California, and its what you should expect to pay.</p>
<p>How can you claim that US News peer assessment is thrown off by Berkeleys graduate schools? Perhaps it is. Is this not true of any school with good graduate programs? Stanford, Harvard, U Mich? Or is it accurate sometimes, not for others? Why dont you ask Alexandre what various undergraduate quality rankings he can find, and see how bad Berkeley is rated? Berkeleys assessment is still a 4.8 out of 5, for whatever reason, and you claimed it was low, and dropping. It isnt.</p>
<p>Your first point has been shown false. Not only do Stanford students who pay the sticker price expect to pay more (by about 10k), those who later move out of the dorms at Berkeley end up paying much less. Also, while the classes are generally larger, your taking fewer credit hours doesnt make sense. You can take what you can take, and because Stanford is on the quarter system, it might appear that theyre taking more units. This is only the case if you decide to take fewer units- it isnt Berkeleys fault. You can expand this to every private school with over 35k (although most have 40+k) tuitions. Im not trying to single out Stanford- you did.</p>
<p>Where do you get these index numbers for Boalt? And really, Berkeley might be known for grade deflation, but thats generally incorrect. As in, in the social sciences and humanities, you probably arent going to fail a class, and its generally possible to get at least Bs. </p>
<p>
[quote]
it seems that going to Berkeley really offers no advantage to students moving on (outside of the professional undergraduate programs) even though it is tougher and has no problem out bad grades, even sometimes arbritary ones.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I cant agree here. For instance, are you familiar with the English department? Its by no means a professional program, but its still top quality. Youre generalizing about departments you probably have little familiarity with. </p>
<p>Your point wasnt that there were higher tuition costs. Your point was the implication that theyre too high. Yes, the rates are higher than what in state students pay, but theyre lower than the sticker prices of most quality schools. I dont disagree, the prices rose and are probably on the rise. </p>
<p>
[quote]
1) Higher Tuition Costs (especially if you are out of state, I pay more than a stanford student for much larger classes and less credit hours a week).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Check page one. That was your user name prior to using some racial slur and getting your old name banned from the site. Do you remember now? I think you should go back and read what you wrote, because you seem to have forgotten parts of it. Again, you dont pay more than a Stanford student, besides those on aid. And even if the Stanford student is on aid, the aid would have to exceed about 10k for it to be evened out.</p>
<p>Are you talking about the dorms, or the housing surrounding Berkeley? You seemed to have switched your focus.</p>
<p>"Poor quality peers. Where does that come from? Are they lacking in intelligence, statistical performance, accomplishments?"</p>
<p>Dude, youre an undergrad, trying to join a top 14 law schools law journal. Do you understand why there may have been a problem?</p>
<p>Im going to see Paul Thomas Anderson, one of the most famous contemporary directors, later this week. Ive seen a famous Israeli band, an international policy and Middle Eastern studies expert who is often utilized by congress, director David Lynch, famous academic after famous academic. Ive seen John Cleese, the Kirov Ballet, Chick Corea, Im going to see Ravi Shankar, Zakir Hussein, Dave Brubeck. Ive seen so many people (ON CAMPUS) that I cant even remember them all. John Edwards. Who exactly did Stanford get that was so great? The Dalai Lama? Okay, one person. Do you really think Berkeley has trouble attracting people to the campus? Perhaps the clubs do less of it than Stanford clubs, but the campus does not lack speakers or guests to entertain. Is the information about their coming here sometimes hard to find? Yes, and I think that should be changed, but theyre here.</p>
<p>Most elite colleges have primarily liberal students. Welcome to higher American education. </p>
<p>What you call generalizations are sometimes as objectively possible false. Berkeley dorm housing being overpriced, for instance, as it falls in line with what you would expect to pay at a college. You say it on the first page. Its wrong. Its what you would expect to pay. Compare the prices, youll see.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I've had bad professors here, granted most were not in the fuzzy majors but the harder science/math ones. They were also in economics, so I will modify my point to only encompass professors in the the harder sciences and economics who have taught the classes I've taken.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is what I respect. You here say that what you experienced was only a very small part of the professorial population, and generally from a particular field. Thats admirable. Why cant you do that for other things that are reasonable as well? Im not saying your experience never happened, or that youre making it up. I do think that its uncommon, but that it occurs. Im not challenging everything you say, just those things that I think you present unfairly. </p>
<p>The reason I want to send you a PM is to talk about improving the campus with you. IM me or something. Will you?</p>
<p>Hejsan,</p>
<p>give me a TOP 8 reasons to go to Berkeley! I am coming berkeley for next fall and never been in California or in US. I am from Europe..</p>
<p>1)the coke
2)the hookers
3)the pizza at blondies
4)Pt anderson is here on thursday
5)Cody's and Moe's
6)"How Berkeley Can You Be" parade
7)Proximity to SF
8)oh yeah, its the best school in the world!</p>
<p>Good to know.. I guess it is true when they say life in Berkeley is GREAT! </p>
<p>It is going to be a cultural shock for me when coming to US. I am from very different environment (northern Europe). How is the climate?</p>
<p>Slightly cold and wet in the winter, mild and sunny in the summer.</p>
<p>"Berkeleys assessment is still a 4.8 out of 5, for whatever reason, and you claimed it was low, and dropping. It isnt."</p>
<p>I only claimed to recall seeing Berkeley drop to a 4.5 recently (that was before USnews made its online stuff private). I don't know where it is now, but other things like the poli sci department losing some peopel to other universities and stuff and the fact that Berkeley hasn't been able to raise salaries in a few years indicates to me that there is going to be a decline in quality. There may be some inertia, but insofar as the quality of the program, I think in all eventuality the tendency will be to go down rather than up because Berkeley isn't offering all the perks it use to (large research budget). </p>
<p>"Your first point has been shown false. Not only do Stanford students who pay the sticker price expect to pay more (by about 10k), those who later move out of the dorms at Berkeley end up paying much less. Also, while the classes are generally larger, your taking fewer credit hours doesnt make sense. You can take what you can take, and because Stanford is on the quarter system, it might appear that theyre taking more units. This is only the case if you decide to take fewer units- it isnt Berkeleys fault. You can expand this to every private school with over 35k (although most have 40+k) tuitions. Im not trying to single out Stanford- you did."</p>
<p>I paid over 900 a month just for housing while in the dorm system. I paid 550-700 a month while outside. The savings were minimal. Seeing as to how renting a nice single apartment costs about 450-500 in the UT area WITH a private bathroom and kitchen, I would have to say California is expensive. If you are in California, I guess you are use to the ridiculously high prices and low quality. If you are out of it, you will notice it quite dramatically. I can't find any info through google at the moment but I think you will find Berkeley has expensive dorms for the quality of the rooms you get. In addition the private homes are nothing to write home about in general either. I finally got a nice place after 2 years in the wilderness here. Also, pricing alone doesn't take into account quality for the price. You might pay similar prices at other colleges, but I bet you, berkeley's private housing costs the same as other state school's public housing. </p>
<p>Public housing would probably be a bettere experience too as you will have dorms and the school standardizing and ensuring a minimal level of experience. You can't expect similar standards for private housing (some of which is very crappy), and thats without the benefits of the social networking you get in a dorm setting (for a lot of the private housing you'll say hi to your neighbor at best). </p>
<p>I'm guessing your point is that private housing at berkeley costs about the same as elsewhere. My point is even though prices are the same, the quality is probably better elsewhere. That seems to be the case in less compact areas like the University of Texas and what I've read about other state schools outside of California, but I can't seem to find any raw data at the moment so this is a tossup, prospective students will have to consider this themselves.</p>
<p>"I cant agree here. For instance, are you familiar with the English department? Its by no means a professional program, but its still top quality. Youre generalizing about departments you probably have little familiarity with."</p>
<p>My point was that the Berkeley degree didn't really seem to offer any advantages at getting into grad schools and whatnot, versus other, more reasonably priced public schools. I guess you can network with professors, but what matters is gpa and Berkeley, in my classes, the grading has often been haphazard. There were a lot of profs I took only to later realize if I had taken another professor, I would've had an easier time making the grade I wanted or thought I deserved (because it matters) or having a better quality class experience. I use to sublet a lot of classes the semester before I was going to take them (on and off) and there was a big difference in professors (I'm mentioning specifically Organic Chemistry and econometrics). </p>
<p>It seems to me that an equal experience can be found at other public universities academically that have been more responsive to student needs. For example the University of Texas makes teachers evaluations available to all students, wheras I can never find them for Berkeley. I wish I had, because some of the profs I've had have been terrible and tested odd stuff that they never go over (which is anecdotal)</p>
<p>"Dude, youre an undergrad, trying to join a top 14 law schools law journal. Do you understand why there may have been a problem?"</p>
<p>Insofar as that, I wasn't expecting miracles, I knew it was only for law school students but if I got lucky I was sure I could make a big contribution. I don't know if the person I talked to was lying to me, but she said there had been students before who had tried to join and they did a bad job and as such they weren't willing to take the risk with an undergraduate again. She was pretty nice when I first asked her and seemed willing to let me on, but apparently the other editors informed her what had happened before. Considering my experiences in other clubs with the incompotency of other students, I can't say I'm surprised. Note that those who join clubs should be self-selecting to be the most enthusiastic students. In general though, they seemed to be a high proportion of largely incompotent people. Granted I only did like 5 or so activities, but nearly all of them had idiots which ruined the experience. My experiences would seem to indicate Berkeley does a pretty bad job of filtering out people. And the incompotence I'm talking about is stuff like simply staying on budget, getting things done that you'll say you'll get done, and communicating effectively and maturely. </p>
<p>"Again, you dont pay more than a Stanford student, besides those on aid. And even if the Stanford student is on aid, the aid would have to exceed about 10k for it to be evened out."</p>
<p>Calculated as an out of state student, I would pay cheaper tuition than I do at Berkeley. This point I'll grant you, UCB is much cheaper for in-staters and cheaper than Stanford for relatively well-off out of staters. That doesn't change the fact that tuition has been rising each year (with much larger hikes for out-of-staters since they can't vote), with service cuts all around (library hours are now shorter, the semester seems shortened with fewer dead days, etc.). Perhaps, I was unclear in my first post, but the point still stands that tuition is higher than it was previously (and rising at rates faster than before the budget crisis), making UCB less of a deal relative to some other colleges.</p>
<p>Liberal students isn't whats annoying, its the fact that many seem to be knee-jerk reactionists and drown out other opinions. This seems to be unique to Berkeley as it is far left of other campuses. I knew what I was coming into but I thought that at a place of higher learning such as this, there would be some level of maturity with which to debate terms. As it is, I feel its just like high school redux. This is subjective I know, but speaking to my other friends, it seems that this isn't as big a problem on other campuses, but I admit I wouldn't know first-hand.</p>
<p>"Check page one. That was your user name prior to using some racial slur and getting your old name banned from the site."</p>
<p>It was deliberate, I reported myself because I was getting a lot of spam. Changed that by making everything private with this account.</p>
<p>I don't particularly want to speak about improving the campus because I'm selfish and I won't be here after this semester (maybe one more if I feel I can stand it to pump up my gpa a bit). My initial post was only meant to show prospective UCB'ers some of the darker side of Berkeley. Maybe my points seem like hyperbole to you becasue I am out of state from a place without as much price inflation as berkeley seems to have, but thats the value of having different viewpoints. I'll grant you that for at least in-state California residents, Berkeley might not seem quite as bad and can offer a lot as you stated. However, those things were not what I was particularly interested (I cared more about academics and some of the social networking with peers more than the rest). I would just advise those that are coming into Berkeley to consider what they really want out of college and make sure you come in with the right expectations. I didn't know about all this stuff and had a lot of cognitive dissonance thinking Berkeley was a pretty good school despite all the evidence I was getting to a less stellar side. Just think about it.</p>
<p>It is going to be a cultural shock for me when coming to US. I am from very different environment (northern Europe). How is the climate?"</p>
<p>About the same or better than anywhere in Europe north of, say Rome, unless you think Rome is too hot in summer, in which case better than anywhere in Europe. </p>
<p>"Norway, Sweden, Finland". Also, much more daylight. Look up and compare the latitudes.</p>
<p>But, the beach weather is not as good as Spain or the south of France. The wind and water are cool all summer in northern CA.</p>
<p>Also, in summer especially, the weather varies a lot within close geography. It can be cool and foggy in Berkely and very hot, dry and sunny a few minutes away through the Orinda tunnel.</p>
<p>The University of Texas is in Austin, Texas, is it not? Im not too familiar with the physical area surrounding the school, but isnt it in the middle of a city? </p>
<p>What matters for graduate school, besides some of your GPA (as in, parts are weighted depending on the discipline), are letters of rec and potential research ability. If youre in the sciences, demonstrated research ability is key. If youre outside, demonstrated scholarship can do a lot for you. I cant agree with your assessment that what matters is GPA. It does and it doesnt. Getting really high grades in your major matter, and if you get at least Bs everywhere else, youre generally good. I think that some more standardized system should be set in place. Im not sure how this could be done, but it would be more fair to have a somewhat more standardized system.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It seems to me that an equal experience can be found at other public universities academically that have been more responsive to student needs. For example the University of Texas makes teachers evaluations available to all students, wheras I can never find them for Berkeley. I wish I had, because some of the profs I've had have been terrible and tested odd stuff that they never go over (which is anecdotal)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hey, I think some sort of evaluations should be available to students. Certain departments release information- I think the entire college of engineering does. Some departments dont. In L & S, the departments policy is the policy, and I think something should be available to students.</p>
<p>Youre right, of course tuition has been rising every year, and its less of deal relative to what it was. It still is cheaper for those, in state or out of state, not on financial aid, or on minimal financial aid compared to the expensive privates.</p>
<p>Berkeley isnt that far to the left. Really, I think this myth remains from the days of yore ( the 60s). yes, Berkeley has generally liberal students, but most are not extreme liberals, and are closer to moderate liberals, and I just cant imagine what Ive experienced here as being any different than say, UCLA or UCR. Maybe Im off base here, but from my experiences on UCLAs campus and UCRs campus, thats how I feel.</p>
<p>I think Berkeley should do more to create a more cohesive social environment (better social networking, ect), but I dont think, overall, academics are lacking. They can and should most certainly be improved, but to theyre not that bad. I think a lot of it ultimately rests on the student, but a bit too heavily. Sure, it ultimately rests on the student at any school, but some schools do more, and even though Im not too familiar with what Berkeley does for social networking, I couldnt imagine why they couldnt do more.</p>
<p>But heres the biggest problem of all, LC. How can you stand by your last paragraph and at the same time criticize Berkeley students for being rude, or selfish? It seems hypocritical. Some of your points seemed like hyperbole to me because they seemed to be hyperbole. Why dont you invest one half of the energy you put in the post insulting the school into improving it? I thought you werent going to merely slam your school that is your alma mater. Why don you try to make it better? If not, your complaints about selfishness seem hypocritical to me.</p>
<p>About grad school, I wasn't referring to med, law, or business (what I consider to be Professional schools). For the first two, sure, GPA is the most important thing, all around GPA, even.</p>
<p>Sorry, I was unclear. By "social networking" I meant making friends in general, not the more well-known meaning of making connections merely for using them in your vocation as a way of getting ahead.</p>
<p>I also meant I was less interested in going to the things you listed and more in academics (considering the price I was paying) and making friends since I thought college kids would somehow be more mature and I'd have a better time in college. </p>
<p>I tried to improve it by contributing to the environment, I joined a lot of clubs and tried out some ec's. I've also in general tried to be nice even though it can be frustrating. There's not much one person can do in a big school of 30k. GPA is most important for vocational schools, but it is also a limiting factor for grad schools as well, though less so. The simplest way to fix things at berkeley is to cut enrollment by half, or segregating the school even more such that more resources can be devoted to students who care less about the grade and more about the experience. Going to class at Berkeley is sad. You talk to people and have a general sense of a developiong relationship and then the next semester you ignore each other. Thats if you even get that far. If people were less annonymous they would be forced to have manners. + you can do a lot more if you have students you can trust. You can have more take home finals, more tests, etc. Maybe thats impossible at a school the size of Berkeley especially one that is straining to meet the needs of a fast-growing state like California, but there are ways to release pressur valves (like opening more vocational schools so people who just want degrees can go in and out quickly).</p>
<p>You complain about things on campus, then say you aren't interested in them. Very well. </p>
<p>The kids I meet here tend to be more mature than the kids in my high school. Maybe you went to an exceptionally mature high school, kept running into bad people here, or perhaps the cultural differences had something to do with it, both politically and area-wise (you being a southerner an' all.) Again, I'm sorry you didn't like it here, and that you didn't transfer after.</p>
<p>Alright, actually improving campus. This is what I'm talking about. But let's be reasonable. Do you really think that Berkeley is going to accept half as many people, enroll half as many people? Who would professors and GSIs teach? Who would fill the buildings? What about the funding that undergraduate tuition supplies? Undergraduate housing? This plan doesn't seem plausible. Now segregating the school somewhat? Sure, lets create an honors college of somesort. I'm having trouble with some of the finer points. For instance, should it be L & S specific? If you have some GPA cut off, engineers in the coe will probably generally be excluded, which I don't want. If you have some sort of classes within L&S that satisfy humanities and social science requirements for engineers or others . . . basically . . . </p>
<p>Basically, threads like this need to go, and the school needs to be changed so that, to the greatest extent, some of the things that you say happened to you don't happen. I'd love to stop seeing this thread for a while if that's okay with you. Before i stop posting on it, and we go start a new thread, one about improving Cal (if you won't contact me through email or im or something), I'd like you to look at what I think are better ways to represent your views, or ways you've seemed to change them throughout the thread, making them less hyperbolic and perhaps less extreme, and then we can move on with our lives to talk about improving things. Is that fine?</p>
<p>
[quote]
1) Higher Tuition Costs (especially if you are out of state, I pay more than a stanford student for much larger classes and less credit hours a week).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Without aid, in state students save a significant amount (about 50k?), out of state at least tens of thousands of dollars. With financial aid, a student might end up paying less for Stanford than for Berkeley. The latter part about credits also does not relate to anything. The op feels that the cost is far too high, and that its unfair for oos students to pay far more than what in state students pay.</p>
<p>
[quote]
3) Huge classes. Even upper division, problems with the budget have made classes generally large, impersonal and boring.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You said that this really only applies to Poli Sci, Econ, and some other department. </p>
<p>
[quote]
4) Poor quality peers. This is subjective but most of the people you meet will be not smart and many times will slow down the class by asking dumb questions. They are the "cream" of the crop of the 2nd worst high school system in the US, where 1/3 of all students drop out, and it really shows many times.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Theyre there but too difficult to find. The op feels that almost everyone he encountered is rude or stupid, but admits that some intelligent do exist somewhere on campus.</p>
<p>
[quote]
6) Many poor quality teachers. This is a research institution and it shows, many professors are just poor quality and seem to care more about research than teaching. Some test you on new stuff not on any of the homeworks they assigned, just because they can. I thought I had left having to consider teacher politics to high school, but you really have to be careful picking teachers, as some classes will be fairer and harder relative to the professor and not the class. Be especially wary of "visiting" professors and professors who have never taught a class before.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Again, the op conceded that this only relates to particular departments in the OPs experience (econ, poli sci, bio, chem.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
7) CRAPPY housing. If paying highly inflated prices for really crapp housing is your thing, then berkeley will suit you. After the 1st year of paying for extremely overpriced, unairconditioned housing shared with a great deal of idiots, the University sends you out to live in extremely overpriced, unairconditoned housing. Which is only a slight improvement because some areas of berkeley have very high crime.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The op feels that the housing, both on campus and off, is overpriced, and of a very poor quality. I say that the dorms are around what you would expect to pay at a top university (with food), off campus, as Berkeley is located in California, housing tends to be expensive. It can also be easy to end up with poor housing off-campus if you dont search early or search hard.</p>
<p>I still think that it's amazing that we went over positive things so few times, but whatever. Can we move on with our lives, onto a new thread, one like what some poster started a few weeks ago, one suggesting ways to IMPROVE campus instead of focusing on aspects that we dislike?</p>
<p>Sure you make a decent point that we should talk about improving things but realistically, will they be implemented? No, so the prospective students here should realize what they see is what they get. </p>
<p>The UC system has simply not been building enough UC's as it did during earlier generations to keep up with the needs of the population, in general their response has to been to keep expanding enrollment at the existing UC's. A simple way to release pressure valves would be just to build more UC's. This is possible, Californians have a lot of revenue; if they were able to take money away from transfer funds and unproven educational programs (like testing in a native tongue), you would probably get enough money. Here at Berkeley they evidently have enough money to keep clearing away buildings and making new ones. </p>
<p>Likewise you can fix things by increasing supply in different ways other than just vocational skills, like increasing the number of classes of the same kind offered such that no professor teaches over 50-75 students. Sure that would take resources, but there would be synergistic shared costs (professors could share the same curriculum), etc. There are lots of creative ways you can increase supply and hence quality.</p>
<p>1) The main point of that was that even though it may be cheaper relative to stanford tutition has been rising at a higher rate, more so than other colleges rates have been rising decreasing the relative value in a Berkeley education, and making the opportunity cost of going to Berkeley higher. This is uneven since they hike tuition differentially. Just throwing that out there so people know.</p>
<p>3) I said I only have personal experience with those departments. From what I've heard and seen many departments have very large impersonal classes too, so a student would be wise to investigate the majors they are interested in when they come here. The only point I conceded was that I couldn't prove from personal experience concerning other majors, not that these facts weren't true for many other majors as well.</p>
<p>4) My general point is that while many people may be nice on the surface, when push comes to shove and you have to work productively with them, many will show the rude and obnoxious side underneath. I attributed this to poor professor oversight and a lack of maturity in general. There is no check to moderate the influence of big egos. I do not think people will tend to stay nice about 25-30% of the time if you have to work with them to get something done. </p>
<p>6) Once again, I only have personal experience with those departments (which are the largest anyways and more prospective students will care about joining). It could be true either way for other departments, and I believe it to be true on the size of big from what I've heard through the grapevine.</p>
<p>7) I would say the dorms and food are pretty inflated and match the price you would pay at a better private university without providing a commensurate experience. The point remains that there is still lots of crappy overpriced housing and that due to the market its rare that people get good housing at an affordable price, usuually you will have to make some sacrifices.</p>
<p>I'm willing to leave the thread as is, but the point was not to debate the good or to exaggerate the bad, it was to give prospective students here a look at what the worst elements of Berkeley are since they will most likely be bombared with good stuff (from school pamphlets and tours here), which they would not be exposed to otherwise and are unable to change.</p>
<p>To Reiterate I Stand By 100% Of What I Said. It Doesnt Matter That Its Opinion, Most Of This Stuff Is Unprovable. I've Felt Myself Getting Dumber Every Year I Spend Here Listening To Idiots In Class After Class, Having Dumbed Down Assignments Because The Professor Doesnt Have Time To Grade Them All Or The Gsi Is Overstretched. Who Cares If Its Unique To Berkeley, Its Berkeley, Don't Come Here.</p>
<p>Modern art makes me want to rock out!</p>
<p>Sakky: "Transfer students can get admitted based on a body of only 2 years of work. Freshman-admits have to present 4 years of work."</p>
<p>Actually Freshmen are only judged for two of their four years in high school. Colleges do not consider freshman and senior grades during high school. They only use sophomore and junior years for GPA.</p>