<p>You left quite a few out. Santa Clara is up around number 5. Seattle U and Regis should be included as well as Gonzaga. They are all regional and similar to Marquette. Loyola Marymount is similar to the other two Loyolas.</p>
<p>I think top 3 is Georgetown/Notre Dame, BC, Fordham</p>
<p>Arguing that Holy Cross or Villanova is better than Fordham or the other way around is like comparing apples to oranges(as most CCers say). </p>
<p>Fordham is a national university, Holy Cross is an LAC, and Villanova is a regional(I think). </p>
<p>I’m biased for national universities though so Fordham for me gets the number 3. but an advocate of LAC Holy Cross can also say that it is superior. Again, it’s an apples and oranges comparison.</p>
<p>I think comparing HC and Fordham or any other national university can be like comparing Swarthmore and Brown or Duke.</p>
<p>Oh, and 2011 stats place Fordham’s selectivity percentage to 38-40 percent. (Double check from “The Choice-New York Times Blog”)</p>
<p>Ah, okay. Yeah, same ballpark, but still 23 places different…kind of like comparing Harvard to USC</p>
<p>Not really…</p>
<p>The differences within the mid-and-lower-tiers have little distinctions so 23 places is rather meaningless.</p>
<p>Does anyone know why Villanova is considered a regional school and Fordham a national school? Seems to me that there is a big overlap in their applicants. Thanks.</p>
<p>Sorry calwithlove, I don’t know anyone who would consider Fordham a “national” school. I would guess that the vast majority of its students hail from the NE, perhaps a 4 hour drive to campus. It’s only differentiating feature is location to NYC; the City, not the college, is a major draw for some. </p>
<p>Stats-wise, Fordham has a poor 4-year grad rate (75%), which indicates to me a lot of local commuters, and part-time programs. For comparison, the grad rates of Notre Dame, Georgetown and BC are 90%, 90%, and 88%, respectively. </p>
<p>Even if NYC is a draw, one need to be mindful that 25% of Fordham’s students maybe paying a 5th year of tuition.</p>
<p>I’m not a big believer in ranking schools by SAT scores, but in this case there’s a certain plausibility to it. Some relatively high profile Catholic schools are listed here in approximate rank order by SAT scores (ignoring trivial differences to award ties in cases where scores are very close), followed by their middle 50% SAT CR+M scores, or for ACT-dominant schools their middle 50% ACT scores converted to SAT equivalent using the official SAT-ACT concordance table. [This probably underrates the ACT-dominant schools just a bit because most SAT-dominant schools report superscores, while ACT-dominant schools generally do not]. No doubt I omitted some schools, especially toward the bottom of the list.</p>
<ol>
<li>Notre Dame (ACT 31-34 = 1380-1510)</li>
<li>Georgetown (1300-1500)</li>
<li>Boston College (1250-1430)</li>
<li>(tie) Holy Cross (1210-1370)</li>
<li>(tie) Villanova (1200-1390)</li>
<li>Fordham (1130-1340)</li>
<li>(tie) Santa Clara (1120-1340)</li>
<li>(tie) Loyola New Orleans (1120-1330)</li>
<li>(tie) St. Louis U (ACT 24-30 = 1110-1340)</li>
<li>(tie) University of Dallas (1090-1350)</li>
<li>(tie) Loyola Marymount (CA) (1080-1340)</li>
<li>(tie) Loyola Chicago (ACT 24-29 = 1110-1300)</li>
<li>(tie) Marquette (ACT 24-29 = 1110-1300)</li>
<li>(tie) Creighton (ACT 24-29 = 1110-1300)</li>
<li>(tie) U San Diego 1115-1300</li>
<li>(tie) St. Johns/St. Bens (MN) (ACT 23-29 = 1070-1300)</li>
<li>(tie) Gonzaga (1080-1290)</li>
<li>(tie) Loyola Maryland (1070-1270)</li>
<li>(tie) Providence (1060-1270)</li>
<li>(tie) Xavier (OH) (ACT 23-28 = 1070-1260)</li>
<li>(tie) Marist (1060-1260) </li>
<li>Fairfield U (1050-1240)</li>
<li>(tie) Siena (1030-1230)</li>
<li>(tie) DePaul (ACT 22-27 = 1030-1220)</li>
<li>(tie) Duquesne (1030-1210)</li>
<li>(tie) U San Francisco (1010-1220)</li>
<li>(tie) Catholic U (1010-1210)</li>
<li>St. Johns U (NY) (970-1210)</li>
<li>(tie) Manhattan College (990-1195)</li>
<li>(tie) University of Detroit Mercy (ACT 21-26 = 990-1190)</li>
<li>Mount St. Mary’s (MD) (930-1170)</li>
<li>Seton Hall (940-1150)</li>
</ol>
<p>Based on this I’d say the OP’s original list was missing a lot of quality schools in my 7-16 range; overrating schools like Loyola Maryland, USF, and Siena; and severely underrating Holy Cross and, to some extent, Marquette.</p>
<p>regarding post # 25</p>
<p>USNWR:</p>
<p>National Universities category offer a full range of undergraduate majors, master’s, and doctoral degrees</p>
<p>Regional Universities offer a full range of undergrad programs and some master’s programs but few doctoral programs.</p>
<p>Villanova has increased the number of Doctoral programs and degrees over the last few years and may qualify in the “National” category in the very near future.
Their internal study indicated that they would rank in the top 50 of USNWR if/when they are rated in the National category.</p>
<p>Villanova vs Fordham : Higher SAT scores ,Higher 4& 6 year graduation rates , Higher Freshman retention rate , lower admit rate , higher rated undergrad business school as per bloomberg business week. Fordham excellent school but a notch below Villanova.</p>
<p>bclintonk - Well researched post. Thanks.</p>
<p>Perhaps the Pope should be consulted on this!</p>
<p>Notre Dame, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Boston College, Villanova. Based on historical US News rankings, Rhodes Scholars, Alumni giving rates, endowment per student, alumni success as measured by salaries(in latest Payscale study from Bloomberg ND was in top 10, Holy Cross 21 or 22). As mentioned Holy Cross is the only LAC among the group but like many elite LAC’s it has great alumni network-HC’s alumni giving rate is 54-55% much higher than Gtown or Boston College. HC is one of only a few LAC’s produce Nobel Prize winner and among its alums are 1 US senator, 4-5 Congressmen, 1 US Supreme Court Justice(2 other current Justices have HC family ties.</p>
<p>@Bluebayou, I was thinking of USNWR when I said that Fordham was a National University, but the stats you gave, if true, can be used to justify that Fordham’s somewhat a regional university as well(for undergraduate?- maybe). </p>
<p>If compared to other National Universities higher in the USNWR, Fordham MAY fail to shine because of the regional aspect.</p>
<p>Side question though(Sorry OP): what do you think of schools that are near Fordham’s rank like BU, Syracuse and GWU? Are they full-pledged national universities or partly regional schools?</p>
<p>With that said though, I’m still biased for Fordham :)) It’s gaining “momentum” right now and I see it as having a better rep as the years go by.</p>
<p>Fromcalwithlove - While I am not an expert on BU or Syracuse, I do have an MBA from GWU, albeit 25 years ago. Back then, the undergraduate school students were principally from the Boston-DC corridor. I was surprised to find out that the business school was very much a regional program, with mostly part-time students and the graduates generally got jobs in DC, Baltimore and No. Virginia after graduation. By comparison, the GWU law and medical schools were more highly regarded and had a more geographicly diverse student base. In the time since I have graduated, I believe that GWU has become more of a national school and also has lots of international students. This is due in part to GW’s improved academics plus the increases popularity of DC as a college town as well as the large number of direct international flights that go into Dulles Airport. </p>
<p>BU is definitely a national school and also seems to attract lots of students from London. I can name 5 people I know who are from California and went to BU. Syracuse I am not sure about, but it seems to be seen as a less prestigious school these days than GW or BU, although it could be partly due to the dreadful weather in Syracuse and the relative difficulty in getting there, compared to the larger East Coast cities.</p>
<p>JackUK, What exactly are you and your son and are looking for in a Catholic university? Are you more interested in name recognition or quality of curriculum/education? True liberal arts education or loose core requirements? Urban or suburban campus? Large or small (as far as total student population)? Easy access to an international airport? Famous professors or no TAs teaching classes? % of graduates admitted to grad school? Large or small class sizes?</p>
<p>Needavacation - I would rank the criteria as the following:</p>
<p>1) Quality of Education, preferably within a Liberal Arts Curriculum
2) Overall quality of life/campus environment
3) Distance/accessability from an international airport
4) Size - definitely under 10,000 undergrads</p>
<p>We are indifferent between urban and rural campuses, although most Catholic unis tend to be urban or near cities.
Thanks</p>
<p>fromcal:</p>
<p>I tend to look at “national” schools based on the residence of their undergrads. If they have a good representation of most of the 50 states they are national in my view. If they draw mainly from a 4 hour drive away, they are more local/regional. BU and GW have two undergrad programs that have raised their stature nationally: 7/8 year med programs. Both also offer great merit scholarships. Thus, both receive a lot of applications from the west coast, for example. It also helps that they exist in great cities in which to attend college (for those that want an urban environment). In contrast, like most of upstate NY, the area surrounding Syracuse is facing difficult $ times. While 'Cuse does have several strong programs, it’s location can be difficult sell to those from a great distance. That being said, I would guess that 'Cuse is much more “national” than Fordham, and even Holy Cross.</p>
<p>Just my $0.02 for what little it is worth nowadays.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Villanova meets that criteria perfectly.</p>
<p>^^ As do Georgetown and Boston College.</p>
<p>I’d say Georgetown, BC, Villanova, Holy Cross, Fordham, and possibly Providence would be good bets given the OP’s criteria. Possibly Loyola Chicago, thought it’s a bit of a commuter school and a somewhat longer flight from the UK. Possibly also Loyola Baltimore though I don’t really know much about campus life there. DC, Boston, Philadelphia, NYC, and Chicago all have non-stop service to the UK. Holy Cross is only about an hour from Boston Logan Airport, the closest major U.S. airport to the UK; shared van service to/from Logan is pretty reasonable. Same for Providence; that city has its own airport but you’d use Logan for trans-Atlantic flights, again about an hour away. I wouldn’t go any further west than Chicago if you’re thinking about the ease of access to/from the UK. It’s about the same flying time from London to Boston or NYC as from either of those cities to the West Coast—in other words, flying from London to San Francisco or Los Angeles takes roughly twice as long as flying from London to the East Coast. </p>
<p>I also like Marquette quite a lot, but from Milwaukee you’d either need to get a connecting flight through some larger hub or schlep all the way down to Chicago O’Hare to get a non-stop trans-Atlantic flight. Also quite a few commuters. I think in fact this is quite common urban Catholic colleges and universities in the U.S. They may be pretty decent schools but given their urban locations they tend to attract a lot of commuter students or are “suitcase” schools where many students live on campus during the week but disappear on the weekends. The top handful—Notre Dame, Georgetown, BC, Holy Cross—are exceptions; they’re more residential and draw from a broader geographic base. I’m not even so sure about Villanova; I know there’s a pretty active campus life, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the Philadelphia/New Jersey kids go home on the weekends.</p>
<p>1) Quality of Education, preferably within a Liberal Arts Curriculum
2) Overall quality of life/campus environment
3) Distance/accessability from an international airport
4) Size - definitely under 10,000 undergrads </p>
<p>Based on that answer, I’ll put in my 2 cents for the University of Dallas, if not for JackUK, then for those conducting future searches, since many are unfamiliar with UD. </p>
<p>A quick search on travelocity reveals 3 airlines with direct flights from LHR to DFW. A light rail system currenly under construction will have a stop just outside the UD campus and will provide transportation to DFW, Dallas Love Field, and points around the metropolitan area.</p>
<p>Quick statistics:</p>
<p>Enrollment Fall 2010: 1337 undergraduates, 1506 graduate;
Student/Faculty ratio: 13:1;
Faculty: @ 97% hold a doctorate or highest level in their field;
Ave undergraduate class size: 17;
30 students have been named Fulbright Scholars in the school’s 54-year history.
Of the 2010 freshman class, 24 were National Merit Finalists.<br>
85% of pre-med and 90% of pre-law graduates are accepted into professional school.
Undergraduate student population from 49 states and 15 countries (more than 50% are out-of-state)
UD is one of 18 schools to receive an “A” in the “What Will They Learn” college ratings. [What</a> Will They Learn? - A guide to what college rankings don’t tell you about core curriculum requirements](<a href=“http://whatwilltheylearn.com/]What”>http://whatwilltheylearn.com/)
The Newman Guide to Choosing a Catholic College lists the University of Dallas in its “Joyfully Catholic” category. [The</a> Catholic Colleges](<a href=“http://www.thenewmanguide.com/TheCatholicColleges/tabid/506/Default.aspx]The”>The Newman Guide - Cardinal Newman Society)</p>
<p>What makes UD exceptional is its true Core Curriculum based on the classics of Western Civilization ([University</a> of Dallas - The Core Curriculum](<a href=“404 - Page Not Found - University of Dallas”>404 - Page Not Found - University of Dallas)) and it’s Rome Program ([University</a> of Dallas - Rome Program Home](<a href=“404 - Page Not Found - University of Dallas”>404 - Page Not Found - University of Dallas)). More than 70% of the students spend one semester of their sophomore year studying at the Rome campus. This semester includes a 10-day class trip to Greece.</p>