Top colleges chosen by Jews

Parents Forum
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<p>many conservative synagogues are egalitarian these days – and women do get bima honors.</p>

<p>the reason there are several denominations of Judaism is because not everyone agrees how “Judaism” should be practiced and defined. Jews who choose to affiliate generally do not choose to affiliate with a synagogue at which they feel their own beliefs are so significantly at odds with that of the synagogue and its community that they would have to lie about their own basic beliefs. </p>

<p>if we as Jews ask other religions to accept that we are different from them, why can’t we accept that within Judaism we can differ also – and accept those differences without viewing them as an issue of respect.</p>

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Well said. To take it a step further, it would be lovely if all jews accepted other jews as jews, whether they be reform, conservative, traditional, reconstructionist, or what have you. We should practice inclusion, not exclusion.</p>

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<p>“conservative synagogues are egalitarian these days – and women do get bima honors.”</p>

<p>You are correct, most are egal, not only do women get bima honors but most accept women rabbis</p>

<p>“Well said. To take it a step further, it would be lovely if all jews accepted other jews as jews, whether they be reform, conservative, traditional, reconstructionist, or what have you. We should practice inclusion, not exclusion.”</p>

<p>even the Orthodox accept reform and recon and c as Jews. They just dont accept our rabbis. And we all (including Reform BTW) have standards in terms of birth and conversion for whom we accept as Jews.</p>

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<p>Perhaps it would be a good idea to get this thread back on topic.</p>

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<p>But that’s not true, BBD. Of the four people in my family, the O would only consider my husband Jewish. They wouldn’t consider me Jewish and they wouldn’t consider my kids – and no conversion I would ever do would satisfy them unless it was O. That’s pretty fundamental. And frankly probably half our synagogue wouldn’t be recognized as Jewish. Which is their prerogative of course, but don’t claim that it’s inclusive.</p>

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<p>I am not sure why people thinks someones attempt to count something in a different way then they choose is a threat to their identity."</p>

<p>You don’t see how someone would prefer not to be counted in a way that doesn’t reflect their own self-identification? I’m not sure why this is so puzzling.</p>

<p>My sister, of the highly Jewish last name who did not identify one bit with any aspect of Judaism resented having people identify her, classify her and treat her as Jewish because she was a “Rosenblum” (not that name, but something just as identifying). Why would she not want others to classify her as she saw herself?</p>

<p>Likewise, isn’t it really a little silly if someone has a Jewish maternal great grandmother and hasn’t identified in any way with Judaism in the last few generations, to tag them as Jewish just because halachically they are?</p>

<p>And, while you may personally not agree with it, would you at least understand that my Reform Jewishly active son would be a little annoyed to be told he’s not really Jewish, just a pretender?</p>

<p>I’m not trying to be difficult and I wish we could express tone because my tone is truly questioning and not harshness, but I am surprised that you don’t think that people being defined in ways other than their own self-definition might be troublesome, offensive or hurtful.</p>

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<p>I don’t agree that the schools like the ivys that previously had quotas need to collect or publish any data with number/percentage of jewish students enrolled. They don’t need to demonstrate anything they do not need to document their “move away from antisemitism”. If they truly are no longer discriminatory, the religious affiliation of any student simply should not matter, and does not need to be reported. To report it could, to the contrary, take on the appearance of tokenism.</p>

<p>As an aside, when I was in college, I left the “religion” box blank on all college forms. As soozie said, I simply felt it was not their business. Similarly today, if I participate in a survey of any kind, I will respectfully refuse to tell them what category my income is in. Again, even though they may wish to collect that data, that is none of their business. It doesn’t mean I don’t wish to affiliate with the category to which I belong.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl - as a (for lack of a better term) “conservadox” Jew, I have struggled with this issue. My solution - and a solution I’ve seen adopted by even some Orthodox rabbis - is to distinguish between being Jewish and being halachically qualified to serve in various religious capacities. I think it would be horribly offensive and absurd to deny that your kids are Jewish, but I don’t think it is wrong for conservative and Orthodox rabbis, who are committed to upholding halacha, to refuse to call them to the Torah. I also believe that if your kids did want to join a C or O shul, the conversion process should be much easier for them than it would be for a non-Jew who wants to convert, especially since the standards for conversion many rabbis impose today are way stricter than those imposed by the rabbis of the talmud.</p>

<p>Topic? I’m pretty sure Hillels are just estimating, but I think they probably do a reasonable job. Between Hillel rabbis, student surveys, and imperfect but not wholly insignificant indicators like looking for Jewish last names, I would imagine you get a fair, if rough estimate.</p>

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<p>Back on topic–Hillels are the most accepting of Jews. They even welcome non-Jews who want to hang out with Jews or “do Jewish.” Why not? You never can tell who may someday become a MOT, and the college years are, as we know, formative and crucial.</p>

<p>Which is why they count everyone…Jewish surname, ethnic, gastronomic, and “one of my grandfathers was Jewish but I’m not sure which one.” :)</p>

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<p>The Ivies may not care about proving a contemporary lack of anti-Semitism, but in this day of budget-cutting, numbers drive hires and fires. Smith just cut funding for its religious life advisors, including their part-time Hillel rabbi.</p>

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<p>That is a shame, SOP14. But it sounds like you are saying all the religious life advisors were cut. If this is so, then it doesn’t matter how many students identify with any particular religion. And while yes numbers may drive hires and fires, how many students self identify as any particular religion differs from how many actively participate in the on campus religious programs offered by their campus religious organization/club.</p>

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<p>Undoubtedly true. My point is that colleges collect this data for a variety of reasons. And administrators use this data similarly. The consequences, however, can be far-reaching. Amherst has shared a Hillel rabbi with Smith for over thirty years, so here’s the ripple effect.</p>

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<p>Understood, SOP. But isnt it also possible that neighboring schools have also shared other religious life clergy or lay leaders? </p>

<p>In some cases, the “numbers”, especially if the data errs on the low side, could have a detrimental effect.</p>

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<p>Absolutely possible; I just don’t happen to know of those.</p>

<p>Yes, I was just trying to add a further dimension to the who’s counting and why question, especially since the people who make appointments with the religious life advisers aren’t always the same ones who are attending religious services or social gatherings.</p>

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thank you for bringing this thread back on topic! And your point is well taken. For purposes of religious life resources at colleges and universities and identifying the percent of any religious representation, I agree that self identification, along with a little extra estimate/guesstimate for those who did not report a religious affiliation should suffice.</p>

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<p>IIRC, a poster who is a father of a Smith student (either currently at Smith or perhaps recently graduated) posted something similar about Smith having cut staff for the Catholic students. (His daughter was active in Catholic campus organizations.) It may be an overall issue rather than assuming it’s targeted at any one faith.</p>

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<p>^^ Exactly, PG. Sounds like the budget for religious life services got cut. That is a shame.</p>

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<p>I can’t speak for Smith specifically, but when visiting, it struck me as being smack dab in the middle of a town (I don’t know if you’d call it a small city) within easy walking distance of several houses of worship. It may be that they believe that students can easily get their “fix” by just using the town’s churches, synagogues, social groups, etc. and that in times of budget cuts, they may not need to duplicate. I don’t know, I’m totally hypothesizing here and as I said, have no familiarity with Smith other than a visit and its presence on D’s list.</p>

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<p>The thing is though, the only numbers people see, pretty much, are those Hillel #s. And, as is evident on this thread, there is no understanding of how the Hillel personel actually came up with those numbers, specifically, or who they actually were counting as “jews”-since there is obviously some room for ambiguity on this point- in developing their lists. People here a speculating on what would be appropriate, but nobody really knows for sure what was done or intended by Hillel.</p>

<p>Somebody ought to ask them, if they care enough.</p>

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<p>So, going back to the topic of this thread (ok?), there are clearly top colleges chosen by Jews (Tulane, UPenn, to name a few with the monikers posted here). Those nicknames sound negative - or is that me putting my own “spin” on it? Is that still a remnant of prejudice? In fact, my kids would like schools like that, where they aren’t the only ones going to services on the High Holy Days (like in their HS). Is there a difference between choosing to go to a school where there is a large, high profile presence of Jews vs going to a college where there is an acceptable amount but the school isn’t “known” for that? And who’s judging? And why does it matter?</p>

<p>My D’s college (she goes next week!) isn’t even on the Reform Judaism Magazine list, yet the Hillel seems great and to us, it seems like there are so many Jewish students (not that we sought them out when visiting campus, but we just met a lot). Supposedly 10 percent Jewish, but at a school with 15,000, that’s a lot for D. When my H told a friend who does SAT tutoring where she is going, the friend remarked that that is where many of the JAPS from LI go (really?). She strongly identifies as Jewish, but is clearly not a JAP (by the way, just not our values). Do I care? No, but funny to get that kind of response.</p>

<p>For me, I did not want to go to Brandeis (told my parents “too many Jews,” even though an athletic coach wanted me there and I got in). Fast forward to now, I hope my S (only a HS soph) likes Brandeis -may be a good fit for him in many ways, including the largely Jewish, but very diverse, student body.</p>

<p>By way of the Jewish value on education (whether you are practicing, reform, conservative, anything else), there are just a lot of Jewish students at many of the top schools. But if you look at the thread called Colleges for Jewish B Students (thanks to rockvillemom), there are also schools below the “top tier” that attract a lot of Jews. And that’s good. No matter what religion or race you are, it’s nice to have others who you can share traditions, etc., with.</p>

<p>Sorry for the rambling… I’ve been reading this thread with great interest and wanted to add my two cents. Very very interesting discussion.</p>

<p>Fijnally – thank you for the “Goyola” reference. That was a school that D’s GC kept recommending. Even though D said that she wanted to go to a school with a lot of Jews, GC evidently couldn’t get past D’s Italian last name!</p>