<p>It makes you typical of an American Jew in 2010 :-)</p>
<p>My D can testify that some Hillel groups target by last names. My H is Austrian and our last name is very common over there, but here it is always identified as Jewish ( H is Catholic, I am United Methodist pastor). But D, an incoming freshman, keeps getting info inviting her to Hillel. She is even attending the university on a Methodist clergy-dependent scholarship (it is UMC institution). Although, D says that Hillel events sound like fun!</p>
<p>My husband is like Soze, except maybe more so. He’s a totally secular Jew. He has no religious faith whatsoever. Except for weddings and funerals, he hasn’t been in a synagogue since his Bar Mitzvah. He married me (a non-Jew) in a civil ceremony. His children were raised without any religion and do not identify themselves as Jewish (which, halachically, is correct).</p>
<p>Yet my husband always identifies himself as Jewish when he fills out forms, and I always describe him as Jewish when people ask me about him. Being Jewish is an important part of his identity, even though his Jewishness is a cultural thing, not a religious one. </p>
<p>And if he were a college student, he would want to be counted among the Jews on campus.</p>
<p>I am similarly lacking in religious faith. Except for weddings and funerals, I haven’t been in a church since my confirmation. But I would never identify myself as Christian. Saying that you’re Christian implies a religious belief in a way that saying that you’re Jewish does not. When I fill out forms, I say that I have no religion. </p>
<p>And if I were a college student, I would not want to be counted among the Christians on campus.</p>
<p>You can never assume who is or isn’t Jewish. I’m sure there are countless examples, but I will use my wife’s family. Observant Jewish ancestry, obvious Jewish name. Her parents divorced and her father remarried a Taiwanese woman. When she immigrated, she was given an English name common to Jewish women. After marrying my father in law, her new married name was along the lines of “Lenore Goldberg”. Yet she is clearly not Jewish. Can’t judge by the name.</p>
<p>Then, they had a son. He also has a very Jewish name, but is half Chinese and it shows. However, he was converted at birth and raised Jewish. So, this Chinese looking kid is actually Jewish. Sidebar, as a kid he went to regular elementary school, Hebrew school, and Chinese school. He learned to read left to right, right to left, and top to bottom. But I digress.</p>
<p>I don’t know how he identified himself at Tufts undergrad or Columbia grad. Bottom line, you never know, and you really can’t trust these statistics.</p>
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<p>:)</p>
<p>Are there any languages where you read from bottom to top?</p>
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<p>I agree! Which is why I think secular Christmas-and-Easter Christians wouldn’t tend to answer “Christian” but secular Hanukah-and-Passover Jews might still answer “Jewish,” even if neither of them believe in a supreme being, practice anything, or celebrate holidays for reasons other than family tradition and presents.</p>
<p>Penn has a “special” nickname- JEWniversity of PennsylvASIA. Lovely.</p>
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Soze, if you are feeling guilty about it, you are definitely a MOT!! ;)</p>
<p>*** by the way, MOWC, if it hasn’t already been posted, the nickname for Tulane is Jewlane, next to Goyola (Loyola). I wish I found this stuff funny, but I don’t.</p>
<p>I don’t feel guilty, and what’s a “MOT”?</p>
<p>“Member of the tribe”</p>
<p>I can understand why a Jewish student would want to gather information about which colleges have thriving Jewish communities, but there is something about the “let’s count the Jews” aspect of these lists that is distasteful.</p>
<p>I have to say some of the posts on this thread really bother me. Don’t Jews have enough problems in this world without other Jews trying to decide who is and who isn’t Jewish? It reminds me of the situation in Israel - where the Orthodox Jews don’t want to recognize Reform Jews and so forth. Such a small population - which has withstood so many challenges over the centuries - does not need criticism from within the ranks.</p>
<p>In my book, you are Jewish if you consider yourself Jewish. Period, end of story. It matters not one bit to me whether one parent was Jewish, whether both were Jewish, whether you belong to a Temple and attend services, whether you send your kids to Hebrew School, whether or not you believe in G-d, whether you just enjoy your Jewish heritage and culture, etc. Who am I to judge another Jew? </p>
<p>I imagine college campuses do their best to estimate their Jewish population - whether through a self-reported survey, info on college applications or Hillel info. It will always be an estimate. I think for many Jewish families - having a rough idea of the Jewish population of schools they are interested in is important - but I don’t think you need an exact head count.</p>
<p>rockvillemom, I agree, it is interesting to see that all these people have different ideas of defining who is Jewish or not. I never really thought of it in these terms. To me, if you self identify as Jewish, you are, and if born to Jewish parents, you are Jewish unless you choose not to be. I’m not sure why there are all these other distinctions here!</p>
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<p>I agree! In the Hillel context being discussed here, I don’t get why there’s so much fuss about missing someone who wouldn’t answer Jewish in a survey anyway. If they don’t want to self-identify as Jewish on a survey, then what is the point of counting them as Jewish for Hillel or other purposes?</p>
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<p>I agree with you fully, but it does matter to more conservative Jews than us. (I’m assuming you’re Reform, as am I.) For example, my kids – Jewish religious education, bar / bat mitzvah, son teaches Hebrew, etc. – would be “disqualified” from being counted as Jewish by O and many C because they have three Jewish grandparents and one not - and the one who is not is my mother, which makes me not Jewish and therefore them not Jewish. However, as far as my day-to-day life goes, that’s their problem – not ours.</p>
<p>Soze,</p>
<p>I was trying to make a little joke about feeling guilty. We used to joke that the Catholics doled out the guilt and the Jews took it. Well, it seemed funny at the time…</p>
<p>As for what others have said above about self-identifying, – I totally agree. I always wondered why someone would even bring up that their mother wasn’t jewish, hence requiring them to go through comprehensive education/training/conversion stuff to be accepted as jewish in some Conservative or “conservadox” shuls. Now if they want to learn all about the religion, thats a different matter. But if they self identify as jewish, even if they weren’t raised jewish, who is really going to question it? Its not like we have to carry a card or something. Just pick a hebrew name, be sure not to put croutons on the salad at passover (a jewish friend of mind did that in grad school once!!) and – shalom!!</p>
<p>“I have to say some of the posts on this thread really bother me. Don’t Jews have enough problems in this world without other Jews trying to decide who is and who isn’t Jewish?”</p>
<p>How can you avoid defining something you want to count? </p>
<p>You can use self definition on a survey. I think I have explained numerous times why I don’ think thats necessarily the best way.</p>
<p>I am not sure why people thinks someones attempt to count something in a different way then they choose is a threat to their identity.</p>
<p>As an aside. At the Ivies there used to be quotas. Counting Jews there was important to demonstrate that they were no longer discriminating that way, and had increased their jewish enrollment. Had they excluded people of jewish background who did not put down jewish on a religion survey, that would have shown far fewer jews, in a way that would have unfairly underestimated the institutions moves away from antisemitism.</p>
<p>“I always wondered why someone would even bring up that their mother wasn’t jewish, hence requiring them to go through comprehensive education/training/conversion stuff to be accepted as jewish in some Conservative or “conservadox” shuls.”</p>
<p>most people who bother attending a C or O shul have at least enough respect for them not to actively deceive them and say, get a torah honor under false pretenses. Those who do not have respect for C or O shuls, even that level of respect, have a great choice of many other synagogues to join.</p>
<p>“that’s their problem – not ours.”</p>
<p>I belong to a C shul and I support the C movements maintenance of a halachic definition of who is a jew (for religious purposes) but I can assure you, your day to day living is not a problem for me at all.</p>
<p>I was thinking more of the women-- and they don’t usually get bima honors.</p>
<p>I am not a fan of the way women are treated in some conservative and most orthodox shuls. Doesn’t respect go both ways?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, but I don’t agree with you that if someone doesn’t fill out “Jewish” on a poll/survey on a college campus implies that they do not identify as Jewish. Simply, some may opt to not fill that part out because they don’t want to and yet still think of themselves as Jewish. It is not all that different than on a college app, you have the option to fill in your race or not. If you leave it blank, it doesn’t imply that you are not Caucasian (if you are white) but simply that you didn’t feel you had to let anyone know. A person can leave a religious survey blank even if they are Christian, Jewish, Hindu, etc. and still be of that religion. Maybe they don’t want to let their religion known or feel it is not the business of a survey. But you can’t conclude that by leaving it blank that they necessarily don’t identify with a certain religion/culture.</p>