Top LAC --> Top Graduate School?

[tetrishead]

<p>

I’d say the list is measuring selectiveness and school size more than PhD preparation. If you’re mainly taking in the best, and most highly motivated students who are planning on pursuing a PhD, you’d have to suck pretty hard as a school to not have them make it to the next level. They’d get a PhD no matter where they went, but that doesn’t mean the school did particularly much to prepare them.

Then why are they choosing those schools? This is an interesting argument.</p>

<p>Let’s assume the path for a PhD is working like this:
Students who are likely to get a postgraduate degree (high GPA, strong academic interests, enterprising, intelligent) -> The institutions on these lists -> Graduate school.</p>

<p>So the question from me, going off what you’ve said, would be why they’re choosing these schools? Presumably there’s a reason. Presumably the quality of education is better, or the guidance and preparation is better, or there are closer teacher relationships that give you better recommendations–or these intelligent students, these “best, and most highly motivated students who are planning on pursuing a PhD” are choosing to attend these schools because… They don’t know what they’re doing? So, while you can say these students are going to get a PhD no matter what, and as long as the school doesn’t completely suck these kids will be fine–they’re still going into academia and they must have reason for going to these schools that have such a high preponderance of their former students in graduate school.</p>

<p>Let’s be totally honest here, and just say it. Going to an Ivy, a top LAC or an elite, private research university is a better pathway to getting a doctorate than going to the University of Florida, and it’s probably a better pathway than most of the great state schools. Nothing to do with job opportunities, or the overall quality of education, or the alumni network, or the study-abroad opportunities, or the name recognition. Getting a doctorate. Even I’m getting tired of talking in circles–this is what it is. All of these schools have a better student:teacher ratio, which seems to correlate to most of these statistics. A LAC has a sole focus on undergraduate education, a plethora of research opportunities for undergraduates and better one-on-one guidance and tutelage. An Ivy has more prestige, oftentimes great graduate schools of their own and a strong network in academia. Research universities are… Research universities, I mean, that’s what they’re built for. Research. You don’t go to some super selective, private, rich research university because you don’t want to take part in research–and research is kind of what you do as doctoral student. All these things are bonuses for academia. These schools, essentially, are almost preconfigured for making it easy to do research and get into graduate school.</p>

<p>Of course, there are kids from UCB, UW, UNC-CH, UM and UT-A that are going to get doctorates–probably close to the percentages of the rest of these schools, just hurt by the fact they have more students and it’s easier to get in to those schools–but I have no doubt that being at one of the three types of schools listed in all these rankings (small private research, Ivy, top tier LAC) would make the life of those students easier. Preponderance of graduates in a field correlates to greater opportunities in that field for students of the school who sent the graduates. This is not rocket science.</p>

<p>All this comes back to is the best schools, minus the great state schools. If we factor the great state schools back into the equation, we’re left with the top 20 universities and the top 10 LACs. This is what everything else comes back to. Some people seem to have a problem with LACs, I don’t why and they’re morons. Some people have a problem with big state schools, I don’t know why and they’re morons. This should surprise absolutely no one. The great schools produce great students (or they come in great, chicken/egg argument is a waste of time) who go into business, or get doctorates, or go to professional schools, or work with nonprofits. All this comes back to the OP who wanted to feel like he can get into a top graduate school from a top LAC. He can. He can get into a top graduate school from any top school–Ivy, state, LAC or private research. I posted the statistics because they show how strong LACs are so he’d feel better about it in general.

You stress how important it is to have a large amount of alumni connections, but the list talks about percentages, not numbers. It’s very likely you’ll be able to have more connections at a larger institution, even if these people don’t make up as large of a percentage of the student body. I don’t see how you’d be better off connections-wise at a place that sends 4/10 students in your field to get a PhD each year, as opposed to a larger school that sends maybe 20/100. The percentage is twice as high, but you’re 5 times behind in connections.

You are making the assumption that the difference is 40% to 20%. From everything I’ve seen, it’s closer to 11/40 and 9/100.</p>