<p>Since USNWR does not include LACs in the same list as universities, I was wondering on your opinions for how LACs fare in prestige. I am applying to many LACs and universities, and as I am trying to narrow my list down, I want to get a good idea of prestige of LACs. To do this, compare a LAC to a university. For example,</p>
<p>Williams = Harvard (if you think it does) or
Pomona = Berkley.</p>
<p>I would especially like to see the "university equivalent" in prestige of these schools: Amherst, Bates, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Pomona, Pitzer, Claremont, Haverford, Williams, Kenyon and Trinity in CT.</p>
<p>If you want prestige then you need tier 1 top 50 universities. The LAC’s listed may give their students an excellent education but prestige will not follow especially if the general population knows nothing about them.</p>
<p>Yeah LACs just don’t command the same level of prestige as the very best schools. Williams and Amherst would have the same level of prestige as Dartmouth or Brown, Williams and Amherst enroll similar students, have similar admissions rates and afford their student similar opportunities as Dartmouth and Brown would. In terms of prestige I’d argue that H,y,p,s,university of chicago, berkeley and columbia all command more prestige. In terms of education Williams and Amherst are some of the best schools in the country. In terms of grad school placement and job opportunities williams and amherst are comparable to Brown, Dart, Chicago, but not quite at the level of Harvard or Stanford. People on this forum over-estimate how prestigious top LACs are because they are at the top of the LAC usnews ranking. </p>
<p>Among the non-highschool, non-CollegeConf forum general populace, williams and Amherst have little name recognition, probably as much name recognition as tufts.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice guys. And I don’t really care about the general public, I was curious about the CC community’s opinion of these schools, as well as the educated people. I don’t care too much about what John Doe thinks about these schools. </p>
<p>Do top grad schools such as HYP see top LACs such as Williams and Amherst as equal or almost equal to Ivy League schools?</p>
<p>A lot has been written about whether the school you attend makes any difference at all in what you achieve in life. I think, yes, pound for pound – and, controlling for each board score, gpa and other factors they bring along with them – graduates from the top LACs are looked upon favorably. The old saying still rings true; that with the understanding that achieving your goals is always easier if you are happy than if you are unhappy, “Choose for fit” and everything else will fall into place.</p>
<p>If the comparison of LACs to National Universities is measured in terms of student quality and post-graduate job placement and/or top grad school admittance, then the LAC universe compares very favorably. There is plenty of data to support this, not to mention the fact that educated people in business and academia know and appreciate the quality of these students. </p>
<p>If the comparison is based on the actual undergraduate academic/classroom experience, the LACs as a group would hold the advantage. The intimacy of the LAC universe is a major attraction of this segment of colleges, but many top national universities also compare well on these measures. Again, there are many data points to support this. </p>
<p>If the comparison is based on things like what noteworthy research accomplishments have been achieved by faculty members, then the LACs would be at an obvious disadvantage to the national research universities. Most educated folks understand that the missions of each group of colleges differ and thus measures of faculty quality will differ according to segment. </p>
<p>Will there be exceptions to each of the above? Yes, but broadly speaking, these are the reality.</p>
A few years ago, the Wall Street Journal surveyed 15 top business, law, and medical schools to see where their students went as undergraduates. Most of the professional schools used in the survey were at Ivies, but they also included Johns Hopkins med school, MIT’s Sloan school, etc.</p>
Granted, there are other factors that work to the advantage of smaller LACs in a survey of this kind. For example, universities (unlike LACs) commonly offer professional programs (like engineering, nursing, or accounting) at the undergraduate level. This means that many of their graduates are quite employable directly out of college, and may therefore be less inclined to pursue professional school. </p>
<p>But regardless of the exact rankings, the survey does seem to confirm that top LACs routinely place graduates in top professional schools.</p>
<p>“If the comparison is based on the actual undergraduate academic/classroom experience, the LACs as a group would hold the advantage.”</p>
<p>However, if the comparison is based on : # courses offered, # majors offered, # areas of study available, breadth and depth of coverage of all subareas of a particular field, comprehensiveness of research sub-areas of each field, and upper-level courses, covered by professors in the various departments, # of outside lecturers coming to campus to speak on advanced areas of each field, # clubs, # of other activities available (in many cases) , etc</p>
Clearly larger universities will tend to have substantial edges over smaller LACs in all these respects. This could be particularly valuable for students who are not planning to pursue study beyond the bachelor’s level. However, it may be less of a factor for students who do expect to go to graduate or professional school (typically at a large university), where there will be plenty of exposure to advanced topics and research.</p>
<p>As the need for post-graduate study becomes increasingly taken for granted, the limitations of LACs may be perceived as less problematic. There is some intuitive appeal to attending an undergraduate-focused institution as an undergraduate student, and then attending a graduate-focused institution as a graduate student.</p>
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Often true, though not for one of the best-known extracurricular activities: intercollegiate sports. The average LAC student has much better opportunities to compete in NCAA athletics (albeit at the Division III level) than the average Division I university student.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that you CAN’T compare LAC’s to universities as far as prestige is concerned. Yes, williams may be as selective as harvard (not sure, just an example), and yes, you’ll get as good an education at haverford as you would at brown, but you can not compare prestige. people will always know harvard, but if you head out to california and write down the name of your selective Maine liberal arts college, people will still say, “BA-DOIN?!?”</p>