Top LACs -- Financial aid budget trimming

Parents Forum
1

<p>Several of the top endowment LACs have announced budget cuts to reduce the growth of financial aid. Swarthmore stayed no-loan, but increased summer earnings expectations for aid students to trim $457,000 from the aid budget. Amherst stayed loan free, but increased summer earnings expectation, halved the # of community college transfers, and reduced the # of internationals in each new class by 20% to save $1,450,000. Williams ended its loan free policy to save $2,000,000 per year in fianancial aid.</p>

<p>In looking at the dollars, something jumped out at me. Pomona and Swarthmore are not need-blind for international admissions. Their percentage of internationals qualifying for aid is roughly the same as the percentage for US students. More importantly, the average net price paid (after aid), is reasonably close for both US and international students. Amherst and Williams are another story. 89% and 93% of their internationals qualify for aid. The impact on net price paid is stunning. Amherst internationals pay, on average, $6255 per year. Williams is even lower at just $4996 per year. That's not even enough to cover the cost of the food they eat in the dining halls! </p>

<p>It's hard to imagine how their admissions offices could do so poorly in attracting tuition-paying internationals. Let's face it, the international students who ace an IB program in a top feeder school and qualify for admission to these colleges are not living in grass huts. So either the admissions offices are intentionally looking for no-pay internationals (concealed athletic scholarships?) or there are serious flaws in the aid formula for wealthier (but less than full-fare) internationals. I have no idea, but I would think you could pull apps at random and find internationals who could pay something. I've seen no evidence to suggest that the international students at Pomona and Swarthmore are an anchor on the academic standards.</p>

<p>What is clear is that this is unfair to the US students. By returning to loans, Williams is reducing grant aid for all of its US aid students by an average of about $2000 each, when the US aid is not the problem and not out of line with other schools. The impact on the budget of 143 internationals paying an average of under $5000 each is enormous. If Williams simply recruited half full-pay and half financial aid internationals, they would increase revenues by over $3 million year -- far more than enough to offset the cost of staying loan-free. It makes no sense. Honestly, at $5,000 a year, it's hard to even understand wanting to increase international enrollment; they aren't going to make it up on volume. Amherst at least sees the problem and is taking steps to stop the bleeding.</p>

<p>


**Pomona (2008-09)
----------------------------------------**<br>
    4%  % international students<br>
   48%  % receiving aid (international) 
   52%  % receiving aid (US)<br>
29,420  Avg net price paid (international)<br>
32,131  Avg net price paid (US) </p>

<p>**Swarthmore (2009-10)
----------------------------------------**<br>
    7%  % international students<br>
   57%  % receiving aid (international) 
   53%  % receiving aid (US)<br>
25,184  Avg net price paid (international)<br>
33,569  Avg net price paid (US) </p>

<p>**Amherst (2009-10)<br>
----------------------------------------**<br>
    8%  % international students<br>
   89%  % receiving aid (international) 
   54%  % receiving aid (US)<br>
 6,255  Avg net price paid (international)<br>
31,035  Avg net price paid (US)</p>

<p>**Williams (2009-10)
----------------------------------------**<br>
    7%  % international students
   93%  % receiving aid (international)
   49%  % receiving aid (US)
 4,996  Avg net price paid (international)
33,852  Avg net price paid (US)

</p>

2

<p>This seems seriously out of whack. Who gets to ask the boards these kinds of questions and if it’s so obvious, why aren’t the questions being asked? Take it to Ephblog… :)</p>

3

<p>It’s crazy, isn’t it?</p>

<p>Amherst is adding 100 students for an additional $3 million in revenue – a move that will clearly lower the quality of the academic and overall undergrad experience. They could add the same amount of new revenue by ending need blind for internationals and enrolling an international class that is roughly half fianancial aid and half full-fare, just like the US students. There’s not even a competitive penalty. Williams is the only other LAC in the country that is need-blind for internationals and they need to make the change even more desperately. You could go broke pretty quickly selling a year at Williams for $4995. I know a lot of US students who would love to go to Williams for that. Sheesh.</p>

4

<p>Interesting data! I particularly liked this sentence: “I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that the international students at Pomona and Swarthmore are an anchor on the academic standards.” As a full fare commodity here, I see no evidence that my unhooked son (2350/2400) could be an anchor on the academic standards either, but this year I worry that he won’t get in, while internationals and hooked students get offered the spots.</p>

5

<p>

Are we sure about this? I would expect that name recognition for top US LAC’s abroad is relatively poor. I would also expect that most international students would much rather study in or near cities than in relatively isolated small towns like Williamstown and Amherst. I bet Williams, for all its academic strength, is quite a tough international sell.</p>

6

<p>But nightchef, are Amherst and Williams that much less reputable / well-known than Swat or Pomona? Swarthmore is in a suburb, similar to Amherst. Pomona is “west coast”, while it’s true Williams is in the boonies.</p>

7

<p>nightchef:</p>

<p>Williams can’t be as hard a sell as Grinnell. I mean #1 in USNEWS and the Berkshires are a lot nicer than the middle of Iowa. I didn’t include Grinnell in the chart, but they enroll 11% internationals (176 versus 143 at Williams). Their internationals pay, on average, $18,500 net price. They see $3.2 million in international revenue versus $714,000 at Williams. </p>

<p>I know that Williams can find 70 full-pay international students each year. The admissions dean has said they could enroll all full-pay internationals if they tried. All they would have to do is shift their recruiting to countries like South Korea and India and Singapore and Hong Kong where there are highly qualified applicants and considerable wealth. </p>

<p>These admissions offices are good. They are the top professionals in the business. For them to enroll an entire class of internationals that can only pay $5000 each cannot be accidental. I don’t understand it, but there some intent.</p>

<p>I’ll have to see if I can compare the countries.</p>

8

<p>lima:</p>

<p>Swarthmore is an easier sell because it’s in a city, it’s eight miles from an international airport, and it has easy public transportation from NYC to Washington. I totally understand that recruiting for the Berkshires is more difficult just because getting there from overseas is a challenge. But, still… averaging just $5000 per student in revenue? From feeder shools like Raffles in Singapore, Mothers in India, and so forth? The United States doesn’t have a monopoly on intelligent wealthy people.</p>

9

<p>

Amherst is not a suburb, it’s a small town in the middle of nowhere, relatively speaking. The nearest urban area is Springfield, a small, depressed city which (at the risk of offending any of its citizens here) I don’t think would be a draw to international students. Boston is two hours away. Swarthmore is a half-hour from downtown Philadelphia.</p>

<p>I’m not saying I know this is the reason for the disparity, but it could be part of the reason.</p>

10

<p>One difference in terms of how much a student’s family is expected to contribute might come from different formulae in computing a budget. </p>

<p>As an example, for transportation expenses some schools might include 2 round-trip tickets, whereas another school might not include transportation or only include a 1-way ticket.</p>

11

<p>I took a look at the varsity team rosters at Williams. These rosters include where the athlete is from. </p>

<p>Williams has 2168 undergraduates. Interesteddad states that they are 7% international, so this would be around 152 international students. I’ve read that the students at Williams are 40% varsity athletes, so you would expect around 61 international varsity athletes. When I looked at the roster for the athletic teams, there were only 30 internationals on varsity athletic teams.</p>

<p>It is puzzling…</p>

12

<p>No, it’s probably not accidental. I posted my guess on a related thread - LACs are looking to the future, figuring that the growth in student population (and applications) will not be coming from the U.S., but the rest of the world, and none of the NESCAC colleges has the name recognition of Harvard or Yale. Maybe they’ll raise the average tuition after a few years of low rates, supposing they’re willing to take a short term hit in order to make themselves more widely known and regarded and then able to attract students with lower subsidies.</p>

13

<p>Building a future customer base with an introductory price is nice, I guess. At $4995, however, there won’t be a future. Williams is spending $80,000+ per student. You can’t make it up on volume when you are losing $75,000 on every international student. </p>

<p>I don’t know what you tell Williams professors who are looking at their second year of pay freezes or US students who will be getting $2000 less financial aid next year.</p>

14

<p>@post 13, you are right. How can they attract an entire market that will be unable to pay? They can find plenty of students who can’t pay right at home. Frankly, it seems nonsensical that they would be unable to fill their classes with diverse students (economic, racial etc.) from here in the USA. Where to all of these incredibly poor high achieving international students come from? Our own educational system must need to look closely at whatever they are doing and import it to our own schools that are poor and underperforming.</p>

15

<p>

Many “poor” international students are not poor in their home country. I have a friend from Kenya whose parents are engineers. She is on full aid because the Kenyan shilling is worth almost nothing in the US.</p>

<p>Of course that does not settle the question if private colleges should be admitting “poor” international students at all, or what is a good number of international students to be supporting.</p>

16

<p>^Another likely explanation for why Amherst and Williams have such a shockingly high % of needy internationals is the need-blind effect. Assuming that A/W are truly need-blind (which is disputed in itself, but the data is otherwise nonsensical), families who CAN afford private US education will only apply for aid at need-blind schools and not check the box at need-aware schools. Why can they do this? Because the financials are basically on the honor system. E.g. I rather doubt that Williams’s financial aid office has carte blanche access to the financial records of an obscure bank in China.</p>

17

<p>Keilexandra:</p>

<p>Brilliant! I think you’ve got it. Of course… if an international family can afford it, why check the fin aid box at a need-aware school? The ultimate goal is to get accepted at a top US college. For the need-blind school, why not? </p>

<p>It makes perfect sense. I’ve never believed that the applicant pools for these colleges were different. You see the same feeder schools pop up at all the colleges. </p>

<p>I also suspect that there is government/industry money available for top students in some of the countries to study in the US, money that only appears if needed. If the college is only charging $4995, there’s no need.</p>

<p>So the same student might be full-pay at one school and full-need at another.</p>

18

<p>Adding students does NOT “automatically” “clearly lower the quality of the academic and overall undergraduate experience.” On the contrary, for very small schools, it an actually, and signficantly, raise it. Foreign language departments get large enough to have active language tables, film series, and other activities. Music departments can offer more ensembles (even those of the pick-up variety) and improve the quality of the campus orchestra and choral groups. Sports teams, even of the intramural variety, are easier to support, as are other kinds of student activities.</p>

<p>It is simply a myth that adding students devalues educational and other qualities. (Back in the dark ages, Williams went coed as a way to improve the overall academic and other quality for its male students - the issue was what was the best way to get larger, and women made it possible to better support weaker departments. There is no question in my mind that the move succeeded - for male students. For females students, I have questions.)</p>

<p>My personal opinion is that Swarthmore would be a significantly better school if it was 300-400 students larger (and spending less per student). As for Pomona, it gains most of those advantages through the Consortium.</p>

19

<p>How can an international student apply Williams (requesting aid) while, at the same time, applying to Pomona (and not requesting aid)? I thought (corrections welcome) that they almost all use the common ap . . . </p>

<p>In recent years, I have only known a handful of foreign students at Williams well. All lived frugally, as if they really needed the full ride. None appeared to come from rich families.</p>

20

<p>Mini, Amherst is planning to add a not-insignificant number of students while striving to decrease faculty through attrition. I agree with many of your comments regarding a “larger” LAC–although I think Swarthmore would be a different school if it was 300-400 students larger–but increasing students while simultaneously decreasing faculty is unlikely to increase/maintain academic quality.</p>

<p>dkane, Common App forces you to check the FA box for every individual school. I should know, given that it was a pain to redo the same introductory information 12 times.</p>

<p>I have no doubt that some intl FA students at Amherst and Williams (and at all the other LACs) are truly poor. But does that apply to ALL such students, when reliable financial fact-checking is impossible? Cynical me can’t believe it.</p>