Top LACs(WASP) vs other top tier LACs?

College Search & Selection
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Thank you all for your replies. Clearly by everyone’s consensus, they are all great schools.

@Corinthian I hadn’t considered that before. Thanks!

Now with that aside, as Corinthian mentioned, since I will be applying through QB, I want to focus at least initially on the LACs partnered with QB which includes: Amherst, Bowdoin, Carleton, Colby, Davidson, Grinnell, Haverford, Oberlin, Pomona, Scripps, Swarthmore, Trinity, Vassar, Wellesley, and Williams.
*I can’t apply to Scripps or Wellesley though because I’m a guy

This cuts down many of other great LACs but of course if I don’t get matched(quite probable), I’m going to want to RD to other LACs as well. However, I want to research more about the colleges on this list first.

All of these colleges are quite far from where I live(deep south) so I don’t think the geographical location matters as much. I would like it if the natural surroundings of these colleges were nice and rural-ish although I think they pretty much all are.

In terms of financial aid, getting matched means full scholarship so that shouldn’t matter and if I get in through QB RD, I’m assuming aid will be similar with each other(though I may be wrong about this)

My biggest question is on how the student body and the cultures of the schools compare. Are they all mostly tight-knit communities that arent clique-ish? Do they all give off different vibes even though they are all LACs?

Finally, like Corinthian said, yea I will probably end up changing my major a couple times. Is this easy or hard to do at these schools?

Oh and please tell me if I should post this on a new thread as my original question is pretty much answered.

Thanks!

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Most of the top 25 (or more) LACs are about the same size. Virtually all the top 25 offer consistently small classes (with a few exceptions for very popular intro/intermediate courses). They almost all have similar departments and majors. They virtually never use graduate teaching assistants (since they have few or no graduate departments). They all draw a mix of students from all over the USA (usually with no more than ~25% of students from in-state). They all have good to excellent retention and graduation rates.

Among the most significant differences are variations in financial aid and selectivity.
Even there, the #1 LAC and one of the #25 LACs have almost the same admission rates, and both now claim to cover 100% of demonstrated need for admitted students.

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If CS is your interest, take a look at this comparison chart of CS course offerings at http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19190340/#Comment_19190340 .

Chemistry and various engineering majors are subject to external accreditation (from ACS and ABET respectively). You can check their listings. However, you may also want to check each school’s offerings. Some may just have the bare minimum to make a worthwhile major, while others may offer more in-major choices and electives.
https://webapplications.acs.org/Applications/CPTASL/app_list_search.cfm?CFID=55302
http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx

For economics, you can check the prerequisites for intermediate microeconomics and econometrics courses in each school’s catalog to see how math intensive they are. A typical math prerequisite is single variable calculus; more math intensive courses may require multivariable calculus and/or linear algebra.

Math can be a fairly broad field at the junior/senior level. You can check each school’s offerings to get an idea of what subareas each school’s math department covers and emphasizes.

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However, an undecided student should check that all of his/her possible majors of interest are at least decent at the colleges selected. It would be a bad result to attend a college and then have to transfer later because s/he decided on a major that is weak or nonexistent at that college.

LACs and other smaller schools do appear to be less likely to have capacity-based barriers to declaring or changing major (e.g. high college GPA needed to enter the major), since there is a minimum department size to offer a worthwhile major, while the small size of the school means that it is less likely for the popularity of any given major to overflow the department’s capacity. Also, some of the majors most commonly affected at bigger schools are more pre-professional majors like business, engineering, computer science, and nursing, which are less commonly offered at LACs, or do not attract as many LAC students even when offered. However, it would be best to verify for each school and major by searching “[school] change major [major]” and “[school] declare major [major]”.

Remember, even when there are no capacity-based barriers to declaring or changing major, you need to be sure to select courses that will allow you to complete the major in your remaining semesters or quarters until graduation. If you are a second semester sophomore who has not taken any math or physics, it is unlikely to be realistic to be able to complete an engineering major and graduate on time.

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@tagi1998 They do have different personalities and offer different advantages, too. (And one person’s advantage is another person’s “must avoid”) Do you want a fully open curriculum (Grinnell and almost Vassar)? Are you more traditionally minded (Trinity maybe or Carleton) or do you prefer a culture that tests boundaries (Oberlin and Vassar)? a school that presses cultural discussion? (Oberlin) Or how about this distinction: Haverford is smaller than Trinity, but is part of an easily navigated consortium that includes Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore and UPenn. Do you prefer to be near Philly? Boston? New York? Minneapolis? (for fun and for internships).

In other words, look carefully at what each school offers.

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I would never consider Carleton “traditionally minded” and its interesting to see it lumped with Trinity.Very different vibes at those two schools.

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For the serious study of economics, these LACs seem to be particularly strong, appearing among universities sometimes 20 times their size when analyzed by faculty publishing:

Williams
Wellesley
Middlebury
Wesleyan
Hamilton
Claremont McKenna

(“US Economics Departments,” “Economics Departments at Liberal Arts Colleges,” IDEAS.)

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Thamks you all for the great responses. There were many things I did not expect or have considered before.

@Dustyfeathers I probably don’t want a FULL open curriculum although I do want to experience and dabble in different subjects. Somewhere in the middle between a traditional and an open curriculum is probably best? And what did you mean when you said “a culuture that test boundaries”? Also, any of the school size I probably won’t mind even if some are on high end of LACs or lower end. Lastly, location? Hmm not sure. I’ve only been to New York before so I can’t really say. I can say that I am not a big fan of cities though once in a while can be fun. I have no idea what’s in Minneapolis though.

@ucbalumnus I’ll keep that in mind thanks!

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In terms of undergraduate mathematics departments, the Princeton Review recognized these LACs for their strength in this field (not certain as to their methodology):

Agnes Scott
Bowdoin
Bryn Mawr
Carleton
Holy Cross
Grinnell
Hamilton
Harvey Mudd
Haverford
Macalester
Randolph
Reed
St. Lawrence
St. Olaf
Wabash

(“Great Schools for 20 of the Most Popular Undergraduate Majors.”)

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@tagi1998 What are your stats. Often, students misjudge this group of schools and don’t appreciate they get well over 5,000 applications for a class of 500 students of which up to 40% can be athletic recruits. Most of have yields of over 40% so they don’t have to accept many students.

Since you are a male, you have a slight advantage.

Your stats might help you get better responses.

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Bowdoin College seems to pop up too and is one of the ‘little ivies’. Davidson has long been a LAC powerhouse in the southeast. Both of these offer a small environment, great endowment and support, and fantastic education.

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@doschicos These are clearly broad brushes that I’m painting with! Please educate me! They are all LACs and so there’s huge cross over among categories. As I said in another post somewhere, even Vassar (considered liberal) has a club for conservatives. I guess I think of Carleton as a school that can prep you for a professional-oriented career in much the same way as Trinity. You may graduate very happily wearing a suit and tie from either school. Vassar and Oberlin students may redesign the suit and tie, upgrade it and/or find something else they prefer to wear, just because. All LACs can lay the groundwork for a profession, mind you. Oberlin and Vassar students also sometimes go to Wall Street and into Big Law. But on the whole, I feel that there are going to be more people dying their hair green at Oberlin than at Carleton and Trinity. Just my gut impression.

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So many ways to look at this. May I suggest that you reverse engineer your process? LinkedIn will provide you the identity of prospective colleges’ graduates. Are these grads that you seek as role models?

WASP? I chuckled because I hadn’t seen that acronym in many years. Swarthmore is anything but; and I am grateful for their economic diversity. Economic diversity is a key indicator; and indicates that you won’t feel the need to keep up with other’s recreational spending.

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Wow. This is an awful lot of information for someone who is just looking for a rural LAC with a good chem dept. If the OP qualifies for QB, chances are good that - once accepted - he or she will be well-funded with minimal debt to worry about. Also, I’ve never heard of a nationally rated LAC where STEM courses were oversubscribed or had grade barriers imposed on them (more likely, it’s the Art, Music and Dance courses that will be oversubscribed long before Physics, Chem or Biology ever would!) Totally different from large research universities where 50% or more of the student bodies may be pursuing STEM related fields.

I agree with getting hold of a Fiske Guide. It has pretty much already whittled down the hundred or so genuine LACs in the country to a manageable number, ranging from the biggest reaches to reasonable matches and sorted by geographic region. You need to get a feel for what’s out there.

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@circuitrider Biology would be among the most popular majors at LACs. At some more than 10% of all students are on pre-med track.

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I agree with @circuitrider. OP needs to rank his choices for QB match partners, and the ones he listed (keeping in mind he is male) are: Amherst, Bowdoin, Carleton, Colby, Davidson, Grinnell, Haverford, Oberlin, Pomona, Swarthmore, Trinity, Vassar, and Williams. If he’s matched through QB it’s like binding ED with a full scholarship. He is from the deep South and says he’s not a fan of big cities. I think he’s asking more generalized questions about the campus culture at these schools. Harvey Mudd, Hamilton, Bates and Middlebury are fantastic schools but I don’t think they’re QB partners, so he would have to apply to them through the regular Common App RD process.

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Wow this is indeed quite a lot of information but I am grateful for everyone’s inputs!

Basically what @Corinthian said, I am at the moment curious about the differing cultures at the different QB partner schools that I can rank. Any other inputs on how the different departments and majors that I showed interests in fair at these specific schools is also highly appreciated!

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And yes I do realize that many could be reach schools but I will probably still rank them considering I am able to rank up to 12 colleges(and all the partner QB colleges are top notched anyways!). For now though, I only want to get a feel for these schools or any more information on them. Plus, I am a QB CPS if that means anything

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Congratulations on being QB CPS. That means you get some free, expense paid visits, right?: Come out to sunny California to visit Pomona, and while you’re there you can check out Harvey Mudd. Pomona has excellent chemistry and CS departments, although engineering at Pomona would have to be done through a 3/2 program. I already gave you the link to the Questbridge chapter information at Pomona. One of the great benefits of Pomona is the availability of the rest of the Claremont consortium, which greatly expands both your academic and social opportunities. Other LAC’s may be in a consortium but nowhere is it as walkable and seamless as it is at the Claremont consortium.

One of the reasons my D picked Pomona was that she was uncertain about what she wanted to major in and wanted a LAC that would give her a wide range of options to explore. Here’s a link to the information about degree requirements. http://catalog.pomona.edu/content.php?catoid=18&navoid=3579 All freshmen are assigned in the Fall to a “Critical Inquiry Seminar” which is designed to be interdisciplinary and to emphasize classroom discussion and writing skills. You can indicate a preference but don’t get to actually pick what seminar you end up in. Again the goal is discussion and writing more than learning new material.

There’s a foreign language requirement (which lots of kids place out of) and a PE requirement (tons of choices, literally something for everyone; my D has taken rock climbing and now weight lifting). Then there is a “breadth of study” requirement which means that during your 4 years (preferably the first 2 years) you have to take one course in each of five broadly defined areas. Just by taking classes she’s interested in, my D has already covered 4 of the 5 breadth of study areas in her freshmen year; the only one she is missing is “Creative Expression.”

There’s also an “aspirational” goal of having students take a class under the heading “Dynamics of Difference and Power.” Again there are a wide range of classes that would count. There has been talk for years of making that a requirement instead of a goal, but so far it hasn’t happened to my knowledge.

As a general suggestion, check out the student newspapers for these LAC’s. They should all be on line. That can give you an up to date feel for what is happening on campus. Obviously right now it’s the end of the school year, but scroll back through the past year’s articles.

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@Dustyfeathers, Carleton is 7th in the nation overall (including universities) for where PhD students get their start. It really isn’t more pre-professional than other LACs at all. It is somewhat more laid back – you won’t find prestige hounds there.