Hi! Wasn’t exactly sure where to post this but I had a question on LACs. Now I have heard that Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, and Pomona are considered the “top” LACs in the US(correct me if I’m wrong). Why is this so and how do they actually compare with other good LACs such as Haverford or Middlebury or Lafayette or any of the other LACs listed under the LAC subtopic on CC? Is there that much of a difference really(in terms of education, research opportunities, grad school placements, professors, etc)? And are there that much difference in the weight of the names when applying to grad schools or employers? I know these are all fantastic schools that can offer me a great education but I was just wondering if I had anything to lose compared to attending any of WASP. Thanks so much and any other imputs are welcomed!
There is considerable disagreement about the order of the LACs. All that you have llisted would be considered at the tippy top.
That phrase “WASP” isn’t really used out here – it has some unpleasant connotations from other uses.
To answer, LACs have rankings just like universities do. Those four are among the top LACs. But just as with universities, you can get a great education at many different LACs. That includes great research opportunities, excellent grad school preparation, and good job placement. It depends on your major, and your preferences – the vibe, environment, and weather vary quite a bit. Don’t worry about prestige – figure out what schools make sense for you. Get a copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges to read up on differences.
@lostaccount @intparent Thank you for the replies!
I will definitely do more research on the other LACs for sure!
I’ve always felt that the gap wasn’t so big between the top four and, say, the next 4-8, but talking about our undergrad experiences with a close friend who went to Grinnell has caused me to be a little less sure. He’s convinced that the gap is very large, that his undergrad experience was significantly inferior to mine. Hearsay, tiny sample size, subjective, to be sure, but one little data point.
(That said, I’m still a huge fan of Grinnell and the rest of the LACs in its range.)
@marvin100 hmm that’s interesting to hear although that is only from one person’s experience. Would you mind sharing what college you attended?
It depends on your major, too. I’d put a Harvey Mudd physics, math, CS, or chem major up against any from the four colleges mentioned by the OP.
I’d don’t feel there are huge differences amongst the top 20 or so. Some of the highest ranked ones do enjoy some sizable endowments however.
@intparent this may be a too broad of a question, but how could I find out which schools are stronger in some majors compared to others as I hear a lot of subjective and differing opinions on whatevers schools major/departments strengths and whatnots?
This isn’t the only measure, but if you want to know what undergrad institutions are producing the most PhD students by major (I think it uses percentages to offset school size), this is useful.
http://www.thecollegesolution.com/the-colleges-where-phds-get-their-start/
And you can ask about specific majors out here. Example: Williams is widely known for the strength in Art History (among other majors, but that is one that comes to mind as an example). But tell us what you are interested in, and we can help.
@tagi1998 - Williams
Totally agree.
The small size of LACs can mean that areas of academic strengths and weaknesses can be more significant than for big universities, where even the weaker departments are more likely to be at least ok. So academic fit can be a very significant factor when choosing a LAC.
It’s mainly an attempt to capitalize on their USNews finishes which, based largely on how much a college spends per student, always pushes the smallest, most expensive colleges toward the top. As others have pointed out, this has almost nothing to do with what they are like at ground level, what they are good at doing or how well their graduates do after college. For example, you wouldn’t guess from the letters in the acronym that it doesn’t include the LAC currently boasting two sitting governors, a United States senator, the 2016 Pulitzer Prize winner for drama, the head coach of the New England Patriots, and a member of the Federal Reserve among its alumni.
Thank you everyone for their replies!
I’m really not sure what I want to pursue but if i had to guess, chemistry, CS, or possibly engineering(I do know only a couple of schools like swarthmore and lafayette offers this) and possibly to a lesser degree mathematics/econ.
Clearly I have many possible interests but if people could say which schools are particularly strong in a give field I mentioned, that would be great!
And I do want to pursue grad school. Also, I do know the limits of engineering in a LAC and how many only offer general degrees for it but I think I’ll like it anyways.
Parity in the top 25 LACs is much higher than in the University rankings and there are considerably more ties in the US News methodology. You should really remove the two service academies that are in the top 25 and reorder them. You can view tied schools as you wish.
In terms of chemistry Bates is way up at the top. Its department head has chaired the main accrediting body for chemistry programs. Chemistry at all the top schools will be great.
Computer science and engineering are not historical strengths of LACs, except for Harvey Mudd, which doesn’t share the profile of others in the LAC rankings. It is much more like Rose-Hulman Institute.
You’re going to hear this over and over again in one form or another, but there’s no “best.”
What will be best for YOU is a school you like (for whatever host of reasons that may matter only to you) that offers the academics you seek and that inspires you to do well … and that you can (or more important do) get in to and can afford.
So check out the schools you listed, and see what they offer. Visit them if at all possible. They’re all strong schools in various respects, so what’s what’s going to matter to your future grad school is not which one is higher on the list based on some arbitrary measure that may not matter to you at all or may change between now and then, but what you actually did with your undergraduate years.
Yes, a #100 ranked school will have significantly different throw weight in some areas than a #10 ranked school, but it’s going to depend on the area and also, on what and how YOU do at that school. And if you’re talking about the differences between a #10 and a #20 … or #30 … the differences aren’t going to be significant enough to turn you away from that school (and your chances of actually getting in will rise as you work your way down whatever list you’re looking at).
I’m curious as to why you listed the “top four,” but then didn’t include the top four. Middlebury, Bowdoin, and Wellesley have been tied with or ahead of Pomona in the rankings numerous times. I find it impossible to believe than any of those schools offer any less of an advantage than the four you listed.
I always remind people who claim a significant difference between any of these top schools that if you compare #1 and #4 in the University rankings you’re comparing Harvard and Stanford/Columbia/UChicago. In LACs you’re comparing Williams and Middlebury/Bowdoin/Pomona/Wellesley. Does anyone really believe you get a lesser education or fewer opportunities because you chose Stanford/Columbia/UChicago over Harvard, or for that matter Middlebury/Bowdoin/Pomona/Wellesley over Williams? If you believe that you need to re-evaluate things.
I agree with the general consensus that all the LAC’s mentioned in this thread will give you a great education, and you need to focus on other things. Are you dead set on a particular major? If so, you can get lots of super detailed feedback on CC about which LAC is the best of the best in that department. But if you’re like most HS juniors, you will change your mind several times about your major. So it’s probably more important to focus on things like what part of the country, what type of student body, and of course the all important question of finances, rather than getting down in the weeds about whose chemistry department is #4 versus #8, for example. Also, I noticed from your other threads that you are applying through Questbridge. So you may also want to consider what support schools give to Questbridge students once they’re on campus. I do know that Pomona has a large Questbridge chapter and seems to have lots of resources and community support for them. Check out this link: http://www.questfriends.com/#!chapter/c1bte. Plus it clearly has the best weather among the PAWS (my reforumulation of WASP, ha ha).