<p>So I am applying to a plethora of top notch national universities as well as liberal arts colleges. My question is, how do you guys think that top notch national universities and liberal arts compare (academic quality, reputation, academic opportunity, etc)? Obviously liberal arts colleges and national universities have different focuses and curriculum, but at the end of the day, do you think you will get as good of an education a liberal arts school as you would at a similarly ranked national university? Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>Short answer–Yes. I just think small schools tend to be socially and activity limited. Never can get lost in the crowd–even when you want to.</p>
<p>I go to a top national university, and my girlfriend goes to a top liberal arts college. Where you go to college depends on what you want to get out of college.</p>
<p>If you are going to be in a business-related field or any field where you are looking to make a lot of money, you will probably want the name recognition of a national university. If you are trying to close a deal with a client, it is going to score you cool points if you went to Stanford or Duke, whereas they are not going to have a clue about Amherst or Whitman. There are a lot of reasons for the recognition national universities get, including the huge size of many of them, their Division I sports, and their graduate/MBA/law/medical programs (which liberal arts colleges don’t have). There are also a ton of majors to choose from at most national universities, which helps if you tend to change your mind about things. And on that note, a lot of these majors are in things like finance, chemical engineering, and nursing, which will make you money right out of undergraduate.</p>
<p>If you are interested in small class sizes, friendly relationships with professors, and an overall since of community, then maybe a liberal arts college is for you. I have heard that they put a stronger emphasis on teaching, and people who go to these schools are required to take a broader scope of courses (i.e., foreign language requirements). Some of the majors at liberal arts colleges will make you money right out of undergraduate, but most of them won’t. Many people make the mistake of thinking they can major in music, creative writing, or history and then support themselves with their degree. This is usually not the case, and these people wind up feeling required to go to grad school in order to get a more useful degree.</p>
<p>This is why i like the hybrid schools. Tufts, Georgetown, Rice, William & Mary, Wake Forest, Brown, Notre Dame, Dartmouth offer the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>I see what you’re saying, Swish. All of the schools you listed are technically national universities, though.</p>
<p>Depends on what you want… I think the top LACs offer the best undergrad education, but they are not for everyone.</p>
<p>Some of the larger LAC’s with #of undergraduates
2,414 - Lafayette
2,614 - Smith College
2,854 - Wesleyan
2,884 - Colgate
2,899 - Holy Cross
2,925 - Univ. of Richmond
3,285 - Siena College
3,508 - Bucknell
3,845 - UNC Asheville</p>
<p>Some of the smaller Major Research Universities
967 — Caltech
1,474 - Pacific University
1,540 - University of LaVerne
2,333 - Clark University
3,262 - Rice
4,248 - Dartmouth
4,299 - MIT
4,781 - Lehigh
5,220 - Princeton
5,224 - Tufts
5,310 - Yale</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments guys. The only reason I ask is because I was wondering whether comparably speaking, despite their different orientation, National Universities generally have more resources or more accredited faculty etc. Its not a huge deal to me personally just curious.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>mt2165, you might want to look at resources per student…here is an example and you will see that there are plenty of LAC’s near the top of the list:</p>
<p>Endowment/Student – College – Endowment – Enrollment<br>
$1,895,607 – Princeton – $14,391,450 – 7,592
$1,436,384 – Yale – $16,652,000 – 11,593
$1,419,680 – Harvard – $27,557,404 – 19,411
$941,274 ---- Pomona – $1,458,974 – 1,550
$819,183 ---- Swarthmore – $1,249,254 – 1,525
$800,975 ---- MIT – $8,317,321 – 10,384
$794,579 ---- Amherst – $1,385,745 – 1,744
$749,309 ---- Grinnell – $1,264,834 – 1,688
$748,952 ---- Stanford – $13,854,115 – 18,498
$725,554 ---- Caltech – $1,545,429 – 2,130
$719,063 ---- Williams – $1,526,571 – 2,123
$668,647 ---- Rice – $3,786,548 – 5,663
$562,305 ---- Wellesley – $1,306,796 – 2,324
$500,802 ---- Dartmouth – $2,998,302 – 5,987
$468,259 ---- Washington & Lee – $1,008,161 – 2,153
$459,684 ---- Richmond – $1,614,871 – 3,513
$457,188 ---- U of Chicago – $5,638,040 – 12,332
$443,030 ---- Notre Dame – $5,234,841 – 11,816
$424,043 ---- Bowdoin – $753,525 – 1,777
$398,450 ---- Smith – $1,243,561 – 3,121
$377,079 ---- Claremont McKenna – $466,447 – 1,237
$363,052 ---- Emory – $4,694,260 – 12,930
$336,137 ---- Duke – $4,823,572 – 14,350
$329,516 ---- Wash. U.St. Louis – $4,473,180 – 13,575
$323,927 ---- Byrn Mawr – $573,674 – 1,771
$315,667 ---- Northwestern – $5,945,277 – 18,834
$315,562 ---- Middlebury – $783,225 – 2,482
$298,739 ---- Haverford – $355,500 – 1,190
$293,878 ---- Macalester – $586,581 – 1,996
$293,713 ---- Hamilton – $552,768 – 1,882
$293,560 ---- U of Penn – $5,668,937 – 19,311
$285,158 ---- Vassar – $699,492 – 2,453
$280,457 ---- Carleton – $563,439 – 2,009
$275,561 ---- Texas – $14,052,220 – 50,995
$275,369 ---- Harvey Mudd – $208,454 – 757
$273,164 ---- Colby – $502,076 – 1,838
$268,944 ---- Columbia – $6,516,512 – 24,230
$257,375 ---- Scripps – $237,300 – 922
$251,380 ---- Brown – $2,155,330 – 8,574
$245,425 ---- Davidson – $427,775 – 1,743
$243,403 ---- Vanderbilt – $3,044,000 – 12,506
$241,372 ---- Lafayette – $580,740 – 2,406
$226,166 ---- Colorado College – $459,570 – 2,032
$225,647 ---- Mount Holyoke – $519,891 – 2,304
$220,999 ---- Whitman – $334,814 – 1,515
$216,554 ---- Colgate – $614,363 – 2,837
$212,213 ---- Cornell – $4,378,587 – 20,633
$211,752 ---- Oberlin – $618,104 – 2,919
$178,204 ---- Holy Cross – $522,494 – 2,932
$176,596 ---- Sewanee U of South – $272,487 – 1,543
$168,111 ---- Furman – $498,282 – 2,964
$165,007 ---- Yeshiva – $1,027,662 – 6,228
$160,412 ---- Virginia – $3,906,823 – 24,355
$160,231 ---- Wesleyan – $504,406 – 3,148
$157,512 ---- Michigan – $6,564,144 – 41,674
$150,272 ---- Occidental – $298,891 – 1,989
$150,136 ---- Case Western – $1,462,027 – 9,738
$149,829 ---- Rhodes – $252,462 – 1,685
$143,794 ---- Centre College – $174,854 – 1,216
$141,908 ---- Trinity – $356,756 – 2,514
$137,117 ---- Univ. of Rochester – $1,367,878 – 9,976
$134,424 ---- Lehigh – $940,430 – 6,996
$133,813 ---- Bucknell – $491,495 – 3,673
$132,454 ---- Wake Forest – $937,639 – 7,079
$132,426 ---- Union – $290,543 – 2,194
$122,230 ---- Franklin & Marshall – $266,339 – 2,179
$118,375 ---- Tufts – $1,213,585 – 10,252
$117,000 ---- Dickinson – $277,993 – 2,376
$114,239 ---- Bates – $198,548 – 1,738
$110,790 ---- Brandeis – $620,204 – 5,598
$108,379 ---- Johns Hopkins – $2,219,925 – 20,483
$104,713 ---- Boston College – $1,479,700 – 14,131</p>
<p>Yeah, I’ve actually seen that statistic before, interestingly enough. It seems that in terms of financial resources per student, your getting top notch resources if you go to a top tier school period. I personally would venture to say that you are getting as good of an education at Swarthmore College as you would get at per se, Columbia. I know I might get a ton of backlash on the statement. I just think that the reputation of Columbia and of other elite national universities kind of eclipses a lot of the LAC’s. Also I guess I am not accounting for ground breaking research and graduate studies, so nevermind in some regards lol</p>
<p>mt215 - Swarthmore is part of WASP - Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore & Pomona.</p>
<p>Many of these students have turned down the non HYP Ivies.</p>
<p>You will find 9 LAC’s in the top 25 schools here:</p>
<p>THE TOP 50 FEEDER SCHOOLS</p>
<p><a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights;
<p>OneCircuit- You are completely right, but in terms of the general public’s perception, the ivy league is way past WASP. Not indicative by the students that end up there, but by the public.</p>
<p>
</a></p>
<p>I can’t believe people are still using this “survey” published by WSJ one time and never done again.</p>
<p>Horribly flawed, so much so, WSJ discontinued this after that one time, what 7-8-9 years ago? </p>
<p>You’re not the only one who has linked this, so I’m not trying to make you feel badly.</p>
<p>With this said, Harvard is a top feeder to its med, law and b schools, as well as other Ivies, and some LACs, not a big surprise. Only one public was included in the top grad, if I rememer correctly, UM Law. And UM is high on the list despite large enrollment becaue it feeds its own l-school well. </p>
<p>You have to remember this was done exactly one time, which means there will be some pretty large fluctuations. If WSJ continued this, a 10-year total might be more telling.</p>
<p>That’s all I’m saying.</p>
<p>Now, I’m looking forward to you posting Payscale data. Proceed forth… ; )</p>
<p>Big bonus points for students who can state in detail what’s inherently wrong with Payscale’s survey.</p>
<p>drax, please stop being silly here…</p>
<p>the Feeder School link was posted as an example that LAC’s do send kids to top graduate school programs, answering one of the OP’s questions…</p>
<p>no more no less</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>gee drax, since the rankings were based on top 5 graduate schools in medicine, law and business, why do you think that very few public universities were included as part of these top graduate schools.</p>
<p>take a guess…</p>
<p>I got ya…you don’t want to give a shout-out for Boalt?</p>
<p>Schools like Bucknell, Holy Cross and Colgate have Div1 sports(giving them a larger feel), student body sizes of around 3000 students, and all 3 schools do very well on the Payscale salary range study.</p>
<p>You will always find the national universities to be more well known, more prestigious, more highly recruited, etc. However, you can get an excellent education at one of the top 10 LACs. I wouldn’t go much further down the LAC list though, as the quality of education really drops after the top 25, whereas a similar drop only happens after around 70 for national universities.</p>
<p>However, if you are looking at the top 10-20 LACs and the top 20-50 national universities, you are in for a great education.</p>
<p>The endowment per student measurement is not very accurate in determining quality.</p>
<p>Georgetown isn’t even on that list (they don’t have a large endowment, given the Jesuit philosophy, so they don’t hoard money and spend it on the school and students as it comes in), yet I doubt a case could be made for half of the schools on that list being better than Georgetown.</p>