<p>[Harvard</a> University - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/]Harvard”>Harvard University - College Confidential Forums)</p>
<p>He should ask his peeps here. They’ll have a good answer for him. He should explain his dilemma. You know, no classmates, professors,no school building, and all.</p>
<p>I don’t apologize for a negative reaction to an obviously disingenuous post. If you have legitimate question then ask it. Don’t bs everyone and then try to insult their intelligence.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Really? I mean, REALLY?!?</p>
<p>I understand where Tort is coming from. The OP clearly slighted everyone going to a “lesser ranked school”. First of all, what the is the definition of a lesser ranked school? What number constitutes “lesser”? Is it 15 and lower? Maybe 37 and lower is lesser ranked, and 36 and higher is the higher ranked? By the Op’s logic since he received a 3.1 at his highly ranked institution he is no better a job candidate than the person that receives a 3.8 at a lesser ranked school, therefor rendering rankings pointless if GPA is what matters. That leads me to ask; speaking economicaly, why did you even decide to spend so much at Harvard if you can spend far less at a “lesser ranked school” (schools numbered 17.86 and higher) and acheived a 3.8? They do teach economics at your glorius instituion right? I just re-read his post, and the guy says not competitive schools. Wow thats nice, if your so smart why don’t you just get a job at these lower ranked, not competitive schools and shower the lesser ranked people with your wisdom. I’m sure you can make a ton of money walking on water and saving the lesser ranked people.</p>
<p>GPA represents how hard you worked, how well you did navigating administrative systems, how well you convinced your professors that you knew the material, succeeding in classes despite getting sick and being able to deal with all of the distractions in college. And there’s some value to being able to dot the is and cross the ts that employers like. This is why GPA along with standardized tests are used in admissions.</p>
<p>Did you have a lot of ECs? Clubs? A job? Volunteering to teach kids in Cambridge? Were you a teaching assistant or a research assistant? Did you play on a sports team? These can all consume a lot of time and an employer might make an allowance on GPA for a busy schedule. Or it could be a valid response to a query about your GPA.</p>
<p>I have a friend that graduated from a third-tier public and he works in a company in the finance district in Boston. He works with people from Harvard, Boston College, Boston University and other well-known private universities. He’s told me that they rib him about where he went to school. He ribs them about their college loans which they complain about a lot. He graduated debt-free. He’s a very bright and athletic guy but his didn’t have a ton of money to send him to a private university.</p>
<p>First of all, the OP never said he went to Harvard–he only said that he went to a higher-ranked business school. He used Harvard versus a community college as an analogy, an example of schools where there would be a difference in difficulty–if not in class tasks, then at least a difference in the level of classmate competition. I’m sure most everyone on here realizes that Harvard has no undergraduate business school. I’ve posted on this subject probably more than anyone else on this board–so don’t expect me to be surprised or impressed by your knowing this.</p>
<p>Secondly, saying that there are some schools that grade more harshly than others is just a fact, not a personal opinion. Many top universities and law schools even put out a list of how grades from various schools should be compared to one another when judging the GPAs of applicants. See for example the following, which talks about how medical schools do this regularly:
[Wiley</a> InterScience :: Session Cookies](<a href=“http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120825190/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0]Wiley”>http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120825190/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0)</p>
<p>It is not insulting to say that there are some schools that are more highly ranked than others. Why else does USNWR put out so many lists on what are the top national universities, the top liberal arts schools, the top business schools, the top engineering schools, and the top graduate schools. There are a minimum of 300 threads on CC alone discussing this–and for someone to give an example of their friend–who didn’t graduate from a top school, but is very effective in business as an example of how this isn’t true, just shows how that person doesn’t understand statistics. Yes, there will always be lots of individuals who can go to any school–and I can give you examples of people who never graduated from college and are still successful–but generally, the better school you go to, the more likely you are to be successful financially and fame-wise and health-wise overall.</p>
<p>The OP said that his undergraduate business school is one that is well-known for grading harshly. If he went to USC or to Georgetown or to Carnegie-Mellon, that’s a well-known fact–and hardly is an insult to anyone that went to a lesser-known undergraduate business school.</p>
<p>P.S. I’m still waiting for someone else to post something of value for the OP–rather than just defend their opinion on why it is okay for them to keep insulting this individual.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>You don’t know how to read. Or you’re just making things up.</p>
<p>A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.[1] To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet weaker proposition (the “straw man”), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2]</p>
<p>The origins of the term are unclear; one common (folk) etymology given is that it originated with men who stood outside courthouses with a straw in their shoe in order to indicate their willingness to be a false witness, but it is unlikely that individuals would publicly declare their willingness to commit a crime outside a courthouse.[3][4] Another more popular origin is a human figure made of straw, such as practice dummies used in military training. Such a dummy is supposed to represent the enemy, but it is considerably easier to attack because it neither moves, nor fights back.</p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man</a></p>
<p>For college recruiting, it depends how well the 3.1 stacks up to the peers in your class. Employers will often reach deep into the pool of top schools. However, if your 3.1 is in the bottom percentiles of your class, it will be difficult to get their attention.</p>
<p>BCEagle91,</p>
<p>Please accept my apology. In rereading your post, I see that I misunderstood your points. </p>
<p>Let me also add that I do appreciate you providing constructive feedback to the OP.</p>
<p>The OP stated “lesser ranked” and “not competitive”, I would like to know what schools are being refered to here? Clearly the OP is on a very high horse. You have to give respect to get it.</p>
<p>@ Calcruzer; Honestly, if you were an employer and a candidate for a job opening said his reason for a low GPA is he went to a difficult school, what would you think? On top of that the OP did not give us enough info on his situation. All he basically stated is, he has a lower GPA what should he say on the resume. Does the OP expect people to just make anything up for him?</p>
<p>people here are being ridiculous. The OP wanted an answer to the question, which people here are completely incapable of supplying it. The academic rigor of the university the OP is definitely considered, let’s not kid ourselves. If you have two candidates applying for a position where they have an identical resumes, except for different GPA’s and Universities. One graduated from a HYPMS and obtained a 3.4, while the other attended UCSB or something comparable to it, both vying for a job in the corporate sector. My money is on HYPMS. Although this isn’t completely PC and might be somewhat offensive, where you went to school carries a SIGNIFICANT amount of weight to it. If we were following the above posters logic, why would anyone bother to go to a prestigious school with extremely demanding academics? Yes, going to a top ranked school gives you some lee-way when compared to someone with a somewhat higher GPA at a lesser school. Harsh reality,but yea, it is true. Going to a top school proves to employers the quality of education you got, as well as demonstrates a lot about who you are, as a person, in terms of struggling through difficult classes, and being motivated since high school to be at the top of the class.</p>
<p>Sheeze, nobody here likes a good debate I see.</p>
<p>Actually, it’s just that some of us are busy with our jobs (possibly you are too)–or are busy having other things to do during the summer–like entertain visiting friends and family–or travel to other places. </p>
<p>Spending a lot of time repeating points already made doesn’t strike me as time well spent.</p>
<p>LOL i cant really believe that quite a few people reacted so seriously to the OP’s “3.1 from harvard is better than 3.8 from community college”. I’m not trying to be sly or anything, but then that does NOT mean he’s actually from Harvard, he was just making a superlative comparison (well you can argue, but Harvard IS, if not the best, one of the best colleges in the US) to explain the dilemma he’s facing in the original post. Obviously, the threat starter wants the discussion to be led in a way that confirms to his advantage, that 3.1 is NOT the end of the world. Which is true. But that still does not mean you are at an “advantage” against peers with higher gpa from lesser-ranked institutions just because of the rank of your own institution is higher. </p>
<p>Again, 3.1 is NOT the end of the world. But you would not become a Goldman Sachs associate when you graduate straight from your school either (unless you have this crazy connections, in which case I doubt you would even post this thread to begin with). If you want higher chance, just try your best to increase your gpa, get a decent job, work for a few years, and go to a grad school and get better gpa. Simple as that.</p>
<p>wow tortfeasor… you’re an idiot</p>
<p>Wharton, Harvard, Yale, Pton are harder than lesser ranked schools, hands down. The Wharton curve allows only 30% of each class to recieve an A on average. Think about the magnitude of that distribution… if you get grades of A, B+, B, B- you are hovering around a 3.1 even though your exam grades only differed 2 or 3 points from the mean.</p>
<p>Tort, I dont know where you went to school but you’re the one riding the high horse here assuming that the person must be lazy or unintelligent to get a 3.1 at a place like Wharton. Most Wharton students were in the top ten of their class and scored above a 1500 combined on their SATs and are all extremely driven towards a high finance career. Can the same be said for NYU, Cornell, Michigan, BU, Emory or other lesser ranked b-schools??? Absolutely not.</p>
<p>To answer the OP: With good work experience, good personality, and clear analytical aptitude you should be able to offset the mildly disconcerting GPA.</p>
<p>Rferns; Can you please provide proof that one attending Wharton is extremely driven towards a high finance career (whatever that is), while one that goes elsewhere isn’t? According to your post, anybody with lower than a 1500 is not “extremely” driven. Talk about high horses… Did they also teach run-on sentences at Wharton?</p>
<p>A 3.1 from Wharton is not great. IMO, which admittedly doesn’t count for anything, a 3.8 from somewhere like Texas, UNC, or UVA (good, but not great bschools) looks better. There are many kids at these schools who could be at Ivies, but just can’t afford it. Just because you’re at one of the best bschools doesn’t mean you’re smarter or more capable than everyone from lesser schools. He could still get into IB, but it won’t be as easy as it would if he had a 3.6.</p>
<p>I wont blame you guys for missing the point entirely, but I will comment on the inherent pessimistic nature of this website.</p>
<p>Its hilarious that all these career threads are always vying for some sort of equity, that hard work at a state school (which a 4.0 is somehow proof of) means the student could have done well at a place like Wharton. Lets be 100% realistic, from a guy that knows kids who have transferred from state schools to Wharton, your thought process is wayyy too optimistic. Kids here a fiercely competitive, something a non Wharton student could barely imagine, classes are strictly curved with no respect to the actual raw score, and standard deviation is all the separates an A from a C. </p>
<p>This website is full of two kinds of respectable financial professionals: MDs who started in finance in the 80’s when competition was nowhere what it is today, or kids who made it into financial services without going to a target school and feel the need to constantly prove their worth to the world (Tortfeasor… who made the genius decision to give away his identity on a previous thread). The outline for how to break in is roughly described on cc… which always finds a way to make trivial details like SAT relevant again.</p>
<p>My point is, people on this thread who made it into ibanking feel the need to make it seem harder than it actually is to break in (as do college students who got into ivies).
By the same logic, nothing can ever take away from the fact that a B average at Harvard is a B average at Harvard. I’m not riding the high horse here, if I were I could easily just have posted Wharton> others like other posters do. Instead my argument is that you can break in from anywhere given the right circumstances, by nature however, a 3.1 from Harvard will still have the advantage given the rank of their school.</p>
<p>also football banker… my point was that these kids are just flat out smarter on balance and that this coupled with the competitive environment of grading and the paucity of jobs in financial services equals a bloodbath in terms of GPAs.</p>