There are many warnings on this site advising students to consider finances first before choosing schools. In fact, I’ve read posts admonishing students aiming high about how they are being unrealistic and even how they should think about the financial impact on their family, as if that were the business of anyone outside the family. If you are from an upper middle class household and if you got a car for your birthday (and don’t need to use it to get to a job nor pay your parents back for the cost), this thread isn’t for you, move on! And if you are debating whether to spend more for college or a new car, move on. But if you are a standout student (top 10% of large public school and/or significant achievements outside school and/or worked full time in school while remaining at the top), this thread is meant for you.
Too few top students with financial needs apply to the top schools. The problem is precisely the opposite of what many people on College Confidential are saying. The reality is that too many top students think about finances first. They shouldn’t! Top schools meet need and are need blind in admissions. There are some good schools that aren’t need blind-but no top schools that aren’t need blind. They are not “would like” blind. In other words, if you can really afford to pay, but would prefer to put that money into a car, then no, that’s not what we are talking about here. But if you are a top student and your family is dedicated to your attending a top school but can’t come close to affording it, it is highly likely that the aid will cover the need. The package also takes into consideration things like younger siblings who will be going to school or who are already in college and parent age (in anticipation of retirement) , rent, etc. And, you don’t need to commit to a school that does not offer a package you can afford.
So, top students, aim high!! If you were one of the best in high school you can probably attend one of the best colleges. Don’t sell yourself short.
I’m not sure what you are referring to. The advice here is usually consistent with what you are writing.
Most folks strongly encourage students and families to use the net price calculators on the college websites for an estimate of net costs.
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site advising students to consider finances first before choosing schools. In fact, I’ve read posts admonishing students aiming high about how they are being unrealistic and even how they should think about the financial impact on their family, a
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I think you are confused.
If students with high need are applying to top schools that “meet need” then people aren’t discouraging them …why would they? Unless their stats are so modest that the app would be a waste of time, there isn’t discouragement based on money.
What you may be seeing is when kids who have high need want to apply to some expensive schools that give lousy aid, THEN people will discourage them.
Or…you may be seeing situations where kids with high need are considering large loans to pay for schools like NYU.
Or…you may be seeing situations where a student has a NCP who won’t cooperate and we tell them that the schools won’t usually process their FA apps without that info or won’t give more aid because the NCP won’t pay.
I don’t believe the intended message is, “don’t apply,” I think it’s more along the lines of:
- have a financial safety *first*, THEN apply to academic & financial reaches
- do *not* try to take on debt your family can't afford to attend a name brand school
- think carefully about the possible consequences of choosing a super selective school with a lot of debt over a good school with little to no debt
Those are all valid points. That doesn’t mean don’t apply. As long as they have a financial safety they should apply to a financial reach school, but be willing to move on if it proves to be unaffordable.
I think you need to spend more time on here before making wildly off base accusations and doling out terrible advice.
The truth is, the vast majority of top students will not make it into meets full needs schools. It’s fine to aim high as long as you know that and have financial safeties.
You are so wrong. I’ve been reading fairly closet for months now. I’ve seen many, many great responses full of important advice. The ones CC veterans caution most strongly are those students whose parents with income or assets that will prevent them from receiving substantial financial aid. Many of those tippy top colleges hand out little to no merit aid and CCers continually educate posters of that fact. Regularly high achieving, low income students are advised to apply to academic reaches that meet full need but also not to forget financial safeties that they know they will be able to afford if they get shut out of those difficult to obtain selective school. Advising students to stick their heads in the sand (or keep them in the clouds) and refuse to consider financial realities is naive at best.
The first post sounds like it was written by someone still in HS…
Best to ignore it.
I don’t think this post matches the reality of advice routinely given out here. Students ARE advised to run net price calculators on each school’s website early in the process. That is not at all the same as telling them not to apply to expensive schools. Now if a kid comes out and says their parents make six figures and don’t plan to help, you will see advice saying that top schools probably aren’t realistic. But even those kids are advised to run NPCs – it is the easiest way to get them to see the reality of their situation.
What motivation would the experienced posters have out here to deceive a low income high-stats kid?
I have read a lot of posts with high stats- low income kids who want to leave their states and come to California, to the public colleges. For some reason, they seem to think that everything will be free and paid for because they have “high stats”. I see the often-used phrase: “UC____ is my dream school”.
Our state UCs and CSUs won’t fund these kids. For the record: Our schools are top schools. Most OOS kids don’t realize that UCLA and Berkeley are public schools that will be charging full fees to non-residents. The students don’t even look at the university web sites, nor do they attempt the NPC and have no idea of the costs. Some of them think Berkeley is beach-like and in southern Cal. It’s California, so it must all be the same, right?
Our UCs are top schools and they will not meet the need of OOS “top students”.. Students have to look at costs because, come April, they’ll have acceptances at schools that they don’t have the money to afford.
I don’t see any problem applying to need met schools disregarding the economic status. So I don’t know what OP is talking about. Check the NPC to determine if the school is affordable first is a consensus here.
I think the OP is right about one thing, and that is that low income students often don’t apply to top schools because they think they are unaffordable without realizing what kind of aid they might get. But to say CC is sending them down this path is where I disagree with the OP.
Folks here are honest, however. Even at very generous schools, there is often a student contribution (that can be earned through work) that can be several thousand dollars. I know I’ll point that out. For some very low income students, this money is often allocated in a work study award but really only at the most generous schools.
For some, this several thousand dollars might as well be the full cost of attendance, as it can be hard to come by. But it’s not impossible.
May it be grant, loan, work study or student contribution, they should mostly be shown on the NPC. It is not just showing an EFC as in FAFSA.
You are misunderstanding things terribly. Absolutely, a top student with high financial need should “aim high” but they need to fully understand WHICH schools can actually help them. Only about 60 schools commit to meeting the full financial need of every student. Many a top “dream” school is missing from that list like NYU. Being a top student in a top college that is not committed to meeting full need is unlikely to fulfill your financial needs.
If you are high needs/high stats, it’s not ENOUGH to throw everything at the Ivies. You have to ALSO apply to lower tier schools where you are the most desirable and thus have high merit opportunity.
On top of all that, you need to apply to your local commuter school where you might be eligible for a state grant to cover tuition and could live at home if need be.
High stats/high need kids need to apply broadly and that’s what you hear constantly on this site.
One issue that commonly comes up is that the student has divorced uncooperative or unreliable parents. In that situation, the student is unlikely to get an affordable (or any) financial aid package from schools that are need-based aid only, and must build a merit-seeking application list.
I would go on to argue, as a relatively new regular on CC, that some of the most helpful information on this website has to do with the realities of financing a college education, far more helpful than all that “chance me” stuff.
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would go on to argue, as a relatively new regular on CC, that some of the most helpful information on this website has to do with the realities of financing a college education, far more helpful than all that “chance me” stuff.
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Very true. It’s not a coincidence that often when we see seniors posting in the late-winter/spring that they now learned that their parents won’t pay/can’t pay or there is a NCP hang-up, we’ll see in their posting history that they were regularly posting in the Chance threads where “the blind leads the blind,” and rarely is there every any mentions of financial restrictions, talking to parents about how much they’ll spend, NCPs, etc.
Yes, like some of the students, OP didn’t spend anytime here, or wouldn’t have made such a post as this forum has helped many students from different backgrounds including the ones first mentioned who do qualify for a lot of aid.
There should be a pinned PLEASE READ notice in the Chances forum telling students to post on this forum and to be aware of any financial issues.
Is the OP reading this thread? Perhaps he or she could respond…particularly to tell why this is his impression of the advice given on this forum.