Tough Decision - Any Input

Colleges and Universities A-Z California Institute of Technology
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<p>So, I now have to decide between Caltech and Princeton (didn't get into Stanford or that would be the other half of the decision with Caltech), and I'm looking for some help. Before starting, I'll say that I'm almost certainly attending both admit weekends, so I'll get information there as well (this won't be my only source of input ;)).</p>

<p>I'm looking at the schools from the point of view of probably majoring in engineering, more specifically electrical. I'm very interested in engineering, math and the sciences, and if I went to Princeton I'd be taking the Engineering/Math/Physics first year program most likely. That gives you a bit of an understanding of my academic interests.</p>

<p>What it really comes down to is between campus cultures and atmosphere, and non-academic extracurricular activities. I am a competitive squash player, and play on a regular basis. Princeton has an extremely strong squash program (#2 nationally), whereas Caltech doesn't have any squash program that I am aware of (and only 2 courts on campus to Princeton's ~25). I am not good enough to be recruited to Princeton, and thus wouldn't probably make their varsity team immediately (though I might), but I would play on a team almost for sure, and eventually probably play varsity. If not, I'd at least have a good time of it. I am worried about not being able to pursue this interest at all at Caltech, and if I go will probably end up joining some kind of club outside of the university to find significant play.</p>

<p>Focus is another issue. I don't really see myself becoming a humanities or political science major or anything like that, but say I wanted a degree in economics along with engineering (if that can even be achieved)? Are the departments other than science, math and engineering even useful at Caltech? I suspect the answer is a tentative yes, but this stops me a bit. On engineering, obviously Caltech has Princeton beat soundly, as in science, but in everything else Princeton trounces Caltech (except math, where they're close). I don't know how much (if at all) I should think about the possibility of doing other things seriously and being constrained by Caltech. Added to this, my counselor and teachers have suggested that my relatively diverse interests in terms of enjoying intellectual pursuits in areas like politics, history and such (though not enough to take almost any classes in the subjects, and definitely not to major in them) should make me think twice about "limiting myself" (their words) by attending Caltech.</p>

<p>Finally, campus culture really worries me (as it does probably everyone in some way). Is it possible to find well-adjusted, relatively "normal" kids who happen to be at Caltech due simply to being very good/liking science and math a lot, rather than that being the defining feature of their personality? Frankly, most of my friends are NOT huge math/science people, and I really value that diversity - my best friend plans on majoring in history and english, other friends in business, etc. I think I'll probably be pretty miserable if I end up being at school for 4 years with people whose personality is defined by their academic pursuits. Sorry if this paragraph sounds either arrogant or misguided, but it's a real worry of mine, so I needed to get it out there.</p>

<p>Any suggestions for me?</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.hss.caltech.edu/%7Ejkg/CaltechSquash/squash.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~jkg/CaltechSquash/squash.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>(from Google, if that helps any)</p>

<p>You could also email any of the people on that website and ask them about it.</p>

<p>As for the non-squash questions:</p>

<p>Focus- Yes, you could get a double major in economics along with engineering . How feasible it is depends on which engineering you'd like to take and also how hard you'd like to work. I'm sure more people can elaborate on this... I don't really know anyone doing Econ/Eng. I do know people who are doing Engineering/BEM (Business, Economics, and Management) double majors though-- one of my friends is a MechE/BEM major. </p>

<p>The "other" departments of Caltech are most definitely not useless- I've found the humanities/social science courses I've taken so far here to be very enriching. I'm much like yourself, interested in a wide variety of things. So far I've taken (I'm a freshman, btw) a philosophy course called knowledge and reality and a history/philosophy of science class and enjoyed both. I also plan on taking some psych courses, some poli-sci classes, and chinese! (I'm not asian though). I definitely don't feel "limited" by the opportunities here at all.</p>

<p>Campus culture is really one of the best things about Caltech, not one of the worst. You'll get a feel for it when you visit. In general, I think Caltech has a very huge variety of people and due to the very accepting nature of caltech students, you really get to see all the different kinds...</p>

<p>If we were defined only by our pursuit of math/science, then how would we be any different from each other? I guess we all could be the same, but we're definitely not. I wrote a little bit about my friends in the recent "house" post, and I don't define any of them by their love for math/science... rather, their hobbies and quirks. </p>

<p>"Just to give you an idea of what I mean, I'll tell you about a few of my friends. My roommate Eric is a tall skinny guy who loves to fence and watch "The show" and most of all loves dark chocolate. I could probably bribe him to do my laundry with dark chocolate. Chris has a thick beard, likes anime probably a little too much, is learning Japanese, and is obsessed (in a good way) with all things computer. Paul also likes anime, I think he's replaying pokemon right now, and really enjoys a good joke. Ali is Paul's roommate and is always mocksparring with me and complaining that he's getting fat (he's not). Jan is Chris's roommate and likes drinking tea, playing unreal tournament, and procrastinating way beyond what anyone else can do. Jan is also a EE, like me. I also hang out with Noele and Narain, both EEs. Narain is a guy with the thickest glasses I've ever seen. He also happens to be very funny (although often unintentionally). Noele is a short girl who will often tell you how much she loves being short. She's involved with DARPA and often tells me how she doesn't really understand what she's doing, although I'm sure part of that is a result of modesty. Anyway, those are my main group of friends. They all have completely different interests and personalities, but together with the rest of Lloyd form a really awesome cohesive unit of amazingness."</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=314867&page=2%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=314867&page=2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Just wanted to second the OP: I also got into both Caltech and Princeton and am very interested in the questions posed in the original post (minus the Squash part).</p>

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<p>I picked between Caltech and Princeton and picked Caltech. I'd say 1of42, who is serious about squash, should almost surely go to Princeton. The engineering and sciences there are good and it's basically obvious that you're a much better fit for Princeton.</p>

<p>As for finding well-adjusted, happy people, there are certainly enough at Caltech. Econ at Caltech is great (certainly good enough to produce students who become top economists) and other social sciences are strong too. There are lots of humanities courses but of course Princeton has Caltech beat soundly on this. I'm a pretty broad person, I think, and I haven't found Caltech to be constraining. If anything, the seriousness of the social sciences and humanities here (which are forced to "try harder" because of the dominance of the analytical fields) forced me to give those fields another look -- and end up specializing in one.</p>

<p>Fundamentally, Caltech will challenge you much more in science and engineering (and even math) than Princeton will, but Princeton will provide a broader range of people and extracurricular opportunities. The broader range of people includes those who have very little interest in academics, which was a minus on the Princeton side form my point of view, but the very active extracurriculars at Princeton are certainly a big plus. I would say visit both places and see whether there are things that make you particularly happy/uncomfortable at each.</p>

<p>I'll probably write a little more on this tomorrow -- time for bed now, just got back from a marathon trip of grad school visits.</p>

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<p>Come with small size is collegiality which provides foundation for a creative and passionate environment at Caltech. Since size is rather small, program is highly selective and core is strong, students at Caltech have better opportunity to reach out effectively. It is very easy to take course or do research across disciplines. Go to Caltech’s calendar, you also note that every week there are many scholars from overall the world to give seminar at Caltech. You could acquire a large intellectual radius at Caltech.</p>

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<p>Hmmm wow, you guys are in the same position as I am;</p>

<p>I third the OP!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Finally, campus culture really worries me (as it does probably everyone in some way). Is it possible to find well-adjusted, relatively "normal" kids who happen to be at Caltech due simply to being very good/liking science and math a lot, rather than that being the defining feature of their personality? Frankly, most of my friends are NOT huge math/science people, and I really value that diversity - my best friend plans on majoring in history and english, other friends in business, etc. I think I'll probably be pretty miserable if I end up being at school for 4 years with people whose personality is defined by their academic pursuits. Sorry if this paragraph sounds either arrogant or misguided, but it's a real worry of mine, so I needed to get it out there.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have a few different takes on this. On the one hand, it's true that there are more people with social issues at Tech than at other places. At Princeton it would be easy never to run into a dorky/socially clumsy person. And I've sometimes been disappointed by the relatively small number of people who are really impressive scholars of history/literature/etc. at Caltech. In that sense, Princeton wins. On the other hand, there are houses at Caltech whose defining features are being "mainstream" or "normal" -- i.e. not having this overly strong Caltech personality. Indeed, dorkiness, etc. are looked down on. So in this sense, you can get this same experience.</p>

<p>Still, I think Caltech is basically a place such that if, after prefrosh weekend, you're not absolutely sure it's "home" for you, then you should go to Princeton (assuming you don't hate it when you visit). The girls (and guys) at Princeton are an order of magnitude more attractive, the social life is very active (if a little perverse because of the eating clubs) and all but a very special group of undergrads would be a better fit there.</p>

<p>A few Princeton minuses that haven't been mentioned. </p>

<ol>
<li>Faculty can be aloof, and often are.
I saw a sign on a prof's door that said (I quote) "If the door is closed, do not knock; I am only available when it is open and during my office hours." At Caltech no facutly member could get away with doing this. There's no "law" but they would be very abusively jeered by other faculty, I think. I took some classes at Princeton and had other experiences where I definitely got the feeling that a professor was a big important person who really didn't want to deal with undergrads (despite all the talk to the contrary).</li>
</ol>

<p>This is a thing where local (i.e. departmental) norms matter, so visit the department you're interested in and see whether people strike you as friendly or aloof. Caltech is the friendliest campus I've ever been to, where the majority of professors will see you anytime without an appointment. It's not because they're such amazing people (some are former Princeton profs) but just because there are only 3 undergrads per faculty member.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Eating clubs make some people feel excluded/unworthy. Some clubs are still open only to those rich enough or well-enough connected, and that makes it feel to some like there's a superculture you can't be part of because of your background. I think some Jewish people feel a little uncomfortable at Princeton because of the atmosphere at least in some places. This is not a big deal for many Princeton students, but I knew several who were thinking of transferring out because of this... so make sure to talk to lots of people and ask specific questions about anything that might bother you. This might be less of an issue now that the university is moving away from the eating clubs (to alums' great consernation).</p></li>
<li><p>Very little to do in Princeton proper. Have to take 1.5 hour train ride to New York or 1+ hour train ride to Philadelphia to find non-pathetic entertainment nightlife off-campus. I grew up near Princeton and always loved the town -- it's perfect for a nerd like me. There are lots of cute little coffee shops and bookstores and restaurants. But I don't think it's optimal for most college students -- almost everything closes early and there are few or no good bars/clubs/college student hangouts. Princeton's on-campus social life is great for many people, but make sure you know what the surrounding area is like.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Caltech has Old Pasadena a short walk away, and that's a lot of fun -- a much more vibrant area than anything you'll find near Princeton (people come from all over LA to hang out on Friday and Saturday nights). But if you're considering a Cambridge school, Boston has both Princeton and Pasadena beat.</p>

<p>Good luck with your choice.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
1. Faculty can be aloof, and often are.
I saw a sign on a prof's door that said (I quote) "If the door is closed, do not knock; I am only available when it is open and during my office hours." At Caltech no facutly member could get away with doing this. There's no "law" but they would be very abusively jeered by other faculty, I think. I took some classes at Princeton and had other experiences where I definitely got the feeling that a professor was a big important person who really didn't want to deal with undergrads (despite all the talk to the contrary).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Along with the honor code, this is something which really appeals to me about Caltech.</p>

<p>Choosing between Caltech and UCB, btw.</p>