<p>Hey. Someone suggested that I post this thread on the brown forum too, so im taking his/her advice, I guess maybe opinions will vary. So far, people have been telling me that Columbia has far more research opportunities than Brown and is a better choice. In terms of music as well, I heard from a source that there are more opportunites in NYC as well. Can anyone from the Brown thread help me out? I dont want to have to regret choosing a certain college over another one. I’m 95% sure that I want to go to Columbia, but Brown is such a great school too. And also, I guess that I will feel limited at Brown because although I am free to choose my courses, if i want to change majors, I won’t really have anything to turn to since i may have chosen only a certain scientific field for example. Who knows, I may even consider an economics major! Columbia’s core allows me to try a whole array of things so i view that as sort of an advantage. But research/music opportunities wise, I’m not sure which one would be better to go to. Thanks for any help!</p>
<p>I don't see Brown's lack of core as a liability. If anything, I think that it allows you to explore your interest at your own pace and terms. For example: 94% of Brown students complete a standard distribution of courses, despite not having a core curriculum.</p>
<p>Any undergraduate at Brown is able to do research at any point while they are here if they'd like, so in terms of "more research opportunities" I don't really buy it-- if you wnat to do research you will be able to here.</p>
<p>Your interpretation of the open curriculum is rather... interesting. One of the greatest advantages of the open curriculum is the ability to take classes across a wide scope that have no connection to each other that you're interested in simply "because". I took a concentration level archaeology course because I was interested in the particular topic discussed without having to take a boring "Intro to Archaeology" class-- I dug right into a region and time period that interested me. I took a fiction writing seminar because I didn't want to take "The Academic Essay" or "Shakespeare" because I felt I had that stuff in high school already. I took a class last semester with 7 people in it which discussed the history and changes occurring at major research universities-- the issues facing them, what different academics think we should do about it, what Brown is doing about it, etc.</p>
<p>I'm a chem major, and no restrictions stopped me from taking these courses. Nobody asked if I had taken some survey course in that discipline.</p>
<p>Not only that, but concentrations require a certain amount of breadth in many cases. For instance, to study chemistry, I have to take the same chemistry requirements, math requirements, and physics requirements as a bio major would, math major would, or even if I'm ambitious, a physics major would before I hit any courses that would only be applicable to the chemistry concentration. I've taken computer science, biology, sociology, archaeology, literary arts, Judaic studies, chemistry, math, physics, geology, computer science, and I'm sure I'm forgetting something-- and I'm only a sophomore.</p>
<p>To think that the open curriculum means your education will lack breadth or flexibility is to completely misunderstand the various ways the open curriculum can be taken advantage of.</p>
<p>What led you to Brown in the first place? Understanding your initial attraction and motivation to apply will help me understand your priorities and how to make a better choice.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you mean by music opportunities. If you mean to say that NYC has a rich and vibrant music scene, well, that's true-- I'm from NY and nothing beats NYC for culture, ever, period. But, if you mean to say opportunities for you to play in groups through school, then again, I think you're mistaken. Brown has so many small jazz combos that I can't even count them on my hands, in addition to concert ensembles, a "big band" jazz group, etc. There are tons of opportunities to play at Brown including our scramble band for football games. Every weekend at least one or two groups have some kind of performance going on-- music is definitely a big part of this campus.</p>
<p>Are you going to get to ride the subway 100+ blocks down to the Blue Note on a Friday night? No, but nobody is going to tell you Providence is a glorious city compared to NY.</p>
<p>Where are you from originally?</p>
<p>I guess the point is, the open curriculum is your responsibility-- your control. You choose everything. You choose how you acquire breadth and depth. If you like econ, or think you might like econ, take it first semester. Try it out.</p>
<p>hey modestmelody. thanks a lot for taking the time to help me out. i didn't mean to interpret wrongly the open curriculum. But what I meant to say was that because it's open, and i really like geosciences for example, I may want to take many courses related to this field during my first year. If i suddenly feel that geosciences isn't right for me, i wouldn't really know what else to turn to because i didn't have any experience with other areas. i guess im trying to say that i'm not "ready" yet to take the responsibility in choosing my own courses. </p>
<p>What led me to choose brown was that i've heard amazing things about its geology department there and i know that the research environment there is absolutely amazing. </p>
<p>I'm from New York, which is probably why im leaning towards columbia since it's closer to home. </p>
<p>I know both have its own benefits so im going to have to think carefully about my choices. </p>
<p>But in any case, thanks a lot for your help!</p>
<p>One of the thing that is good about Brown is the fact that you would be able to choose the order of the courses. For example: You could take the upper-level courses which is more interesting, as opposed as having to start with the prerequisite which can be less interesting in a lot of department.</p>
<p>Go to Columbia, it sounds like you would be happier there. If you feel you aren't "ready yet" to decide all your own classes then this is the worst possible place for you.</p>
<p>I don't know as much as other people here about science or music at Brown, but in terms of your concern about the open curriculum:</p>
<p>I started out as a very gung-ho classics major. Sometime in the middle of last semester, I realized that while classics was cool, it certainly wasn't what I wanted to do professionally. Because I was so into it, all but 3 of my classes to that point were classics courses, and I was in pretty poor shape to start something new. However, this semester, I'm taking all my classes just because the professors are wonderful, and I love every one of them. Granted, it's easier for me to kind of experiment at this point because the classics major requirements are so few that I'm nearly done anyway, but even as a second semester sophomore, I still can major in any number of subjects if I want (econ is actually one of my options here). At this point, I don't know if I want to, since your undergrad major isn't terribly important in the grand scheme of things, but it was really because of the open curriculum that I am able to float around like I do. If I had been restricted in my first few years by a curriculum and not loaded up on my classics courses, I probably would not have gotten to a level where I discovered that I just didn't like them that much. It would have taken me until my junior or senior year to become convinced of that, and then it probably would be too late to switch. </p>
<p>The open curriculum works in a different way for everybody, but I think everyone at brown appreciates its freedom and flexibility. At any rate, you're given so many advisers to help you pick classes that you won't know what to do with them all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So far, people have been telling me that Columbia has far more research opportunities than Brown and is a better choice.
[/quote]
Modestmelody has made it pretty clear that Brown offers plenty of research opportunities. As a non-Brown student and geology minor, I'll add that there are plenty of research opportunities regardless of your school. The REU programs are one example. I'll be in Cyprus on an archaeological dig for free this summer thanks to an REU program. NSF offers plenty of geology REUs:</p>
<p>I'm not a psychologist, but it seems to me as though you unwittingly want Columbia, but since Brown is such a great school, you want to make sure that you're gonna make the right choice. You remind me of a bride who is having last minute thoughts about her marriage, ^^. To tell you the truth, making a decision between two amazing schools is pretty damn hard but I believe that deep down in your heart, you know that you want Columbia. Maybe you shouldn't make a decision until you have gone to both open days? Also, you can always transfer, you know.</p>
<p>I can say having taken a Geo course here, the department is FANTASTIC as people. Very tight knit group that makes you feel more like a part of a family than anything else. I've never seen a department so anxious to bring anyone who's taken any Geo class together for field trips, lectures, lunches, etc on the level that the geo department seeks to. Whereas I didn't love the class, I loved the people.</p>
<p>Also, Geo is a department that does very well due to the open curriculum. One of their offerings GE23, is often recommended for 1st year students yet geo majors routinely take in sophomore or even junior year because it's known for being difficult and not as interesting as some of hte other geology classes. It happened to be the only geo class I took...</p>
<p>The bottomline is if you don't think you're responsible enough to talk to someone in the geo department, get their take on what sort of classes you should be taking to be on pace to concentrate in geology (the same way you would any concentration anywhere) and to withhold taking too many courses in addition to that since you do want to explore early on, then Brown is deifnitely not the place for you. If you're not only not prepared to, but are not completely infatuated with the idea of controlling and constructing your education based around what you want to do and learn, then Brown really isn't for you.</p>
<p>The beauty and uniqueness of Brown is the independence and responsibility it rewards you. While our geology department is a real sleeper (one of the best in the country but not often talked about amongst pre-frosh), if you feel unprepared to hold back your love due to hesitancy about your concentration then you're not ready to be a Brown student.</p>
<p>I don't mean to sound condescending, which reading back I realize I might, but I can't stress enough the importance of Brown's curriculum, what it means to our students, and what it means about our campus culture. If this idea doesn't appeal to you, it's just not very, "Brown". I'm glad you got in and have this wonderful decision to make-- Brown or Columbia? We should all be so lucky (and some of us were/are)! The truth is though, it doesn't really take much to control your education but a desire and a mindset and that desire and mindset tends to permeate every facet of our culture.</p>
<p>Btw, in case you can't tell, I'm actually one of three student representatives on the Undergraduate Education Task Force Committee which is seeking to reevaluate our curriculum. I have a lot to say on the issue which is why, I guess, I was chosen to be a representative. If you ever want to chat in more detail about some of it's advantages or disadvantages, you can feel free to IM me on AIM or private message me.</p>
<p>thanks everyone for all of your inputs. modestmelody, you don't sound condescending at all; i respect everything you are saying to me. you made some great points about the "open curriculum" actually. i guess i do have a lot to think about, whether i really am fit for brown or not. in terms of music/research im convinced now that brown really does offer such wonderful opportunitie to participate in these things. but it does seem like i want columbia "deep down in my heart" as someone said........im going to ponder this carefully, and hopefully, whatever my decision will be, i will be happy with it. again, thanks everyone for your support!</p>