<p>One other point to consider is without actual work experience it is hard to know if it is a career someone wants to pursue.</p>
<p>“Exactly how much would you expect a typical new graduate, who has never worked a full time position, to make? Mid to high six figures?”</p>
<p>I would have expected something in the range of 110-150K, depending on what they majored in. </p>
<p>A weighted average of the medians for PHDs from UMich Engineering is about 93K (It was just under, like $92,900), and that was for all, including those going into industry, and into academia. And yes, that was for 2009.</p>
<p>And before you come back at me with an argument, I’m not trying to defend anything other than it was reasonable to expect it was higher than that.</p>
<p>The richest rewards in the US are for those who start, own and operate their own businesses</p>
<p>It’s for those who start, own, and operate their own SUCCESSFUL businesses, and it comes with a lot of sacrifices too.</p>
<p>There are a lot of industries and businesses besides academia that specifically seek out PhDs. Top management consulting firms pay premiums to new consultants with doctoral degrees from prestigious schools - and they don’t even have to be business or engineering doctoral degrees - because they value the skills and work that doctoral students learn within their programs. There are lots of government and military agencies that need people with PhDs to do the crucial research that keeps the country running, and think tanks and researcn foundations need people who know how to do research as well. Unemployment rates for PhDs are lower than for people with just a BA/BS.</p>
<p>It’s of course true that you can make it big without a degree or an advanced degree…but those are exceptions to the rule. On average, people with higher degrees make bigger salaries.</p>
<p>In industry/business, you don’t get paid for the pedigree</p>
<p>If that were true, why do the top firms come recruiting at the top schools?</p>
<p>I stated it helped get that important first job.</p>
<p>Qwerty is comparing UMich (a fine school!) engineering PhD’s with all MIT PhD’s.
Generally engineering pays more than “pure” science at almost every educational level.</p>
<p>I second what BigG says.</p>
<p>And of course there is a premium for new hires with advanced degrees from presitgious schools, and they are recruited more heavily than your typical BS grad. THe question is how big of a premium. All things being equal, it is better to have an advanced degree than not.</p>
<p>And think tanks, research centers, etc are different. </p>
<p>But it has been my experience over 25 years in many technical areas, that most companies will pay a far hgiher premium for a BS graduate with 5 years highly successful work experience, than a freshly minted PhD. THe way people generally advance in salary is either by forming their own company, or becohing invaluable to an employer, seeking employment elsewhere for higher pay, and then either moving, or gettings their curernt employer to match the offer.</p>
<p>
May be true some places. At McKinsey 22% have either MD or PhD.
The other 78% have something else (primarily MBAs and Masters degrees).</p>
<p>[Diversity</a> of backgrounds | Diversity | McKinsey Careers](<a href=“http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/is_mckinsey_right_for_me/diversity_of_backgrounds.aspx]Diversity”>http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/is_mckinsey_right_for_me/diversity_of_backgrounds.aspx)</p>
<p>“Generally engineering pays more than “pure” science at almost every educational level.”</p>
<p>I would have figured PHD was the one level that wasn’t like that… I would have posted the Science, Math, and Econ salary statistics, but they’re not published.</p>
<p>QwertyKey:
</p>
<p>Here is my analysis on this wrt MIT:
- The premium at the elite institute is always awarded to undergraduate of the institutes.
- If you closely look at the data, M.Engg. at MIT command the maximum premium with just 1 additional year over BS. It is because the program is restricted to MIT students only there by getting more premium over the undergraduate students.
- MS and Phd don’t get similar premium for additional number of years over BS as it is open to non MIT students.</p>
<p>I might be wrong but in my view the real premium of a college brand is always attached to the undergraduate except in case of degrees that are advanced to begin with e.g. MBA, JD, MD etc.</p>
<p>Most of those who seek (or sought) a PhD did not do so for the money. We did (do) it for the love of what we are doing. We simply want enough to live on and, perhaps more importantly, the chance to keep doing it after grad school. The issue is not money, but finding a position that will allow one to continue one’s work. Some of us go into private enterprise, some academia, some have done both. It is rare that someone who lands a very good starting faculty position would leave it for $50,000 more per year.</p>
<p>U. Penn career office web site is quite extensive too but only provide employment details for undergraduates.</p>
<p>[Career</a> Services, University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/schoolmenus_undergrad.html]Career”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/schoolmenus_undergrad.html)</p>
<p>I was told by a Phd at a reasonably large tech company that they pay their newly minted Phds roughly on par with an engineer with 5 years experience.</p>
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</p>
<p>Obviously it depends on what positions we’re talking about, but I’ve seen PhD’s often be quite valued in the business world even if they’re not doing anything directly related to what their degree was in. </p>
<p>If it’s relatively low level paper pusher work then it doesn’t make much difference (and honestly someone with that level of education would likely be bored out of their mind anyway). However, in those positions requiring lots on on the ground thinking, the ability to manage large projects with a bizzilion things going on at once and the ability to quickly learn new material then PhDs often thrive in these environments–hence why the management consultancy firms scoop them up right out of school… and yes they do pay a premium for the degree. </p>
<p>In these cases people with that level of education, some business acumen (and the ability to pick up more on the fly) can really be valuable for a company. Folks with purely business backgrounds or an MBA are a dime-a-dozen (especially now) but those that can match that level of ‘business skills’ combined with a strong education and background in a particular area can really set themselves apart out there today.</p>
<p>We’ve hired several Phds over the years and they’ve worked out well but we usually screen them for the ability to work in the real world. We had a large product in the 1980s that had a ton of Phds and they could put out papers but couldn’t crank out code that worked. Phds often make excellent project leaders because they’re used to juggling so many things in school.</p>
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<p>Yes… this in an important qualifier to my earlier comments about a lot of places valuing their PhDs. There are certainly some that seem like a fish out of water if they’re not on a university campus or an academic setting.</p>
<p>I have been in academia for 30 years. Don’t make an impressive salary, but I have been fully employed for 25 years. It’s true. Salary not especially impressive, but the benefits are.</p>
<p>In addition, I have not had to: work over-time, travel (unless I wanted to give a paper), employ child care – on site day care and nursery school were enough, no nannies, work over the summer, work on a holiday.</p>
<p>I had a fully funded PhD and I would choose this field over and over again. I also don’t have to wear special expensive clothes, eat expensive lunches or really have any overhead expenses (like dry cleaning and expensive shoes.)</p>
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<p>Who thinks the PhDs are only 24 years old? I would guess a typical fresh PhD is more like 28-30 (or more in humanities).</p>
<p>In the high tech R&D area, Phd’s are preferred if their Phd is in the same area of the department. Sometime it is either Phd or MS with at least 5 year of experience.
In my 20 years of experience engineers with just BS some time are not appropriate for R&D work at all.
So advance degree in such case is more a requirement than a preference.</p>
<ol>
<li>If it takes 5 years to get a Phd post bachelor’s on average, then why would anyone get a Phd if they do not start at least the same salary as an engineer with 5 years experience?</li>
<li>What do some of the previous posters mean on testing whether a Phd can fit into the real world?</li>
</ol>
<p>In software engineering, it means that they can code, debug and do design work. One way to demonstrate that is for the candidate to present a project that they did or led that involved design, coding and debugging.</p>